Thematic Butterflies and Moths

foxglove · 07-08-2010, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by Tamia

I DID wonder if mine was a butterfly or moth, but those smooth antennae convinced me it was a butterfly. So, I googled and found this site which is aimed at kids, I think, and it has a good chart about the distinctions between the two. Still haven't IDed my critter, though.

Sigh... this moth/butterfly distinction drives me batty (so to speak)! I was just ranting about this last night after I noticed a field guide I have says on the jacket blurb that it'll help you learn how to distinguish "harmless butterfly caterpillars from destructive moth larvae." Aaaargh! The poor moths aren't even caterpillars according to the author, they're generic larvae.

My rant, in a nutshell: 1) They're all in the order Lepidoptera, 2) The distinctions between them are full of exceptions, and most of all 3) "Butterfly" caterpillars are not all harmless, and not all "moth" caterpillars are. I find it very interesting that Pieris rapae, the cabbage white, is often referred to as the "cabbage moth", even though by the definition on the website referred to above, it is clearly a butterfly: club-tipped antennae, day-active, etc. And anyone who had tried to grow brocolli or other brassicas knows that they can be quite destructive! To add to the confusion - Tamia, I'm pretty sure yours is a skipper. They're all Lepidoptera, "butterflies" get their own superfamily, Papilionoidea, skippers are superfamily Hesperioidea, and "moths" don't rate a superfamily.

I'm on a mission to redeem the much-maligned moths. Yes, many of them are pests, but there are others that are harmless and spectacular. Luna and Io moths leap to mind. Of course I have no photos of those. But I do have an ash sphinx caterpillar, and an adult ash sphinx. Not sure if it's really a great ash sphinx or something similar, but it's definitely a sphinx, and it was on ash! The caterpillars are quite big (7 - 8 cm) and the moth must've been about 5 cm. They chewed up quite a few of the leaves on our ash trees, but it was late summer and the trees were nearly done with them anyway...

I'm out to redeem moths, but I do enjoy butterflies, too. There are some lovely shots so far.

Julie

Attached Images

Clou · 07-08-2010, 12:23 PM

I do not have an awful lot of butterfly pictures, but this is my favourite one:

**Tamia** · 07-08-2010, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by photolady

...I guess one would need a stronge macro lens to see the brush-footed part.

If only they would wear their name tags!

Originally posted by foxglove

...Tamia, I'm pretty sure yours is a skipper. ...

I'm out to redeem moths, but I do enjoy butterflies, too. There are some lovely shots so far.

Julie

Julie, I couldn't agree more with you about the poor moth. I like both moths and butterflies, and am glad that you pointed me toward a possible ID for "my" critter. Googled and found that it is probably the least skipper. Here are some pix and a description.

**ramseybuckeye** · 07-08-2010, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by CGottfried

It's a mourning cloak. Around here, in central Pennsylvania, they're among the earliest butterflies one sees in the spring (having overwintered in a crevice, generally).

Thanks for the ID, Timing makes sense, Spring weather comes a lot later out there. This was mid June and still had some snow in the high country.

**ramseybuckeye** · 07-08-2010, 02:11 PM - **1 Like**

I'm truly inspired by all the great works and information that has arrived in this thread. I'm on vacation and between "chores" went out and found this female Colias philodice (or Lively Clouded Sulphur), the wildflower is Blue Vervain. Glad I went then, it's pouring rain now, we need it!

CGottfried · 07-08-2010, 05:00 PM

There are so many beautiful photos here, but then I love butterfly photos.

That said, here is a somewhat plain (though elegant) skipper, with some birdsfoot trefoil blossoms (or some kind of trefoil) to brighten the mood. (I forget which macro lens I used.)

photolady95 · 07-08-2010, 07:53 PM

i completely forgot about Skippers. Now I have one I took some years ago in Minnesota. I never did get an ID on it. It's not the best of my photography either, so please excuse the blurry image.

I believe this is a Florida White, Sulfur perched on a Lantana blossom.

foxglove · 07-09-2010, 05:06 AM

Originally posted by photolady

I have one I took some years ago in Minnesota. I never did get an ID on it. It's not the best of my photography either, so please excuse the blurry image.

Oooh, oooh, nice!! It's probably a white-lined sphinx (see Some kind of Sphinx - Hyles lineata - BugGuide.Net). Go moths!

foxglove · 07-09-2010, 05:37 AM

Originally posted by Tamia

Julie, I couldn't agree more with you about the poor moth. I like both moths and butterflies, and am glad that you pointed me toward a possible ID for "my" critter.

You're welcome, and I'm glad there are others who appreciate the moths. Given that they outnumber butterflies by at least 10 to 1, I think they deserve some attention! I find BugGuide quite useful: Welcome to BugGuide.Net! - BugGuide.Net. Some of the IDs are a little wonky, but you can at least get an idea of what you've got with a little digging.

photolady95 · 07-09-2010, 07:15 AM

Thanks for ID and comments on my Moth, Julie. And thanks for the newest addition to my bug guides. I've bookmarked this guide, and will pursue more of it later today.

**ramseybuckeye** · 07-09-2010, 09:00 PM

This butterfly and hundreds like him were flying along the road in the Greenbriar section of Great Smokey Mountains National Park in Tennessee. I think it's a Pipevine Swallowtail.

Jools · 07-10-2010, 10:08 AM

Some beautiful shots of moths and butterflies. I have to admit that I love their coloring and patterns. In fact, I borrow alot of them for my stained glass work. Nature certainly keeps me in awe.

Here are a couple of moths taken this Spring. And yes Tamia, I wish they had name tags too!

CGottfried · 07-10-2010, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by ramseybuckeye

This butterfly and hundreds like him were flying along the road in the Greenbriar section of Great Smokey Mountains National Park in Tennessee. I think it's a Pipevine Swallowtail.

With the row of dots along the back of the hindwing, as well as the touch of orange, my guess would be a female spicebush swallowtail. The pipevine's dots are almost invisible.

CGottfried · 07-10-2010, 11:33 AM

And here are two images of a black swallowtail (a male), taken with my *1st D and the 1000/f11. (I generally go walking/hiking with two cameras, one with a telephoto lens and one a macro.)

**ramseybuckeye** · 07-10-2010, 05:31 PM

No idea on this colorful butterfly

07-08-2010, 02:11 PM - 1 Like	#20
ramseybuckeye Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hampstead, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 17,290 Original Poster	I'm truly inspired by all the great works and information that has arrived in this thread. I'm on vacation and between "chores" went out and found this female Colias philodice (or Lively Clouded Sulphur), the wildflower is Blue Vervain. Glad I went then, it's pouring rain now, we need it! Last edited by ramseybuckeye; 07-08-2010 at 02:28 PM.

07-08-2010, 05:00 PM	#21
CGottfried Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: State College, PA Posts: 44	There are so many beautiful photos here, but then I love butterfly photos. That said, here is a somewhat plain (though elegant) skipper, with some birdsfoot trefoil blossoms (or some kind of trefoil) to brighten the mood. (I forget which macro lens I used.) Attached Images

07-10-2010, 11:33 AM	#29
CGottfried Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: State College, PA Posts: 44	And here are two images of a black swallowtail (a male), taken with my *1st D and the 1000/f11. (I generally go walking/hiking with two cameras, one with a telephoto lens and one a macro.) Attached Images

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07-08-2010, 11:57 AM	#16
foxglove Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Atlantic Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,049	Originally posted by Tamia I DID wonder if mine was a butterfly or moth, but those smooth antennae convinced me it was a butterfly. So, I googled and found this site which is aimed at kids, I think, and it has a good chart about the distinctions between the two. Still haven't IDed my critter, though. Sigh... this moth/butterfly distinction drives me batty (so to speak)! I was just ranting about this last night after I noticed a field guide I have says on the jacket blurb that it'll help you learn how to distinguish "harmless butterfly caterpillars from destructive moth larvae." Aaaargh! The poor moths aren't even caterpillars according to the author, they're generic larvae. My rant, in a nutshell: 1) They're all in the order Lepidoptera, 2) The distinctions between them are full of exceptions, and most of all 3) "Butterfly" caterpillars are not all harmless, and not all "moth" caterpillars are. I find it very interesting that Pieris rapae, the cabbage white, is often referred to as the "cabbage moth", even though by the definition on the website referred to above, it is clearly a butterfly: club-tipped antennae, day-active, etc. And anyone who had tried to grow brocolli or other brassicas knows that they can be quite destructive! To add to the confusion - Tamia, I'm pretty sure yours is a skipper. They're all Lepidoptera, "butterflies" get their own superfamily, Papilionoidea, skippers are superfamily Hesperioidea, and "moths" don't rate a superfamily. I'm on a mission to redeem the much-maligned moths. Yes, many of them are pests, but there are others that are harmless and spectacular. Luna and Io moths leap to mind. Of course I have no photos of those. But I do have an ash sphinx caterpillar, and an adult ash sphinx. Not sure if it's really a great ash sphinx or something similar, but it's definitely a sphinx, and it was on ash! The caterpillars are quite big (7 - 8 cm) and the moth must've been about 5 cm. They chewed up quite a few of the leaves on our ash trees, but it was late summer and the trees were nearly done with them anyway... I'm out to redeem moths, but I do enjoy butterflies, too. There are some lovely shots so far. Julie Attached Images

07-08-2010, 12:23 PM	#17
Clou Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 925	I do not have an awful lot of butterfly pictures, but this is my favourite one:

07-08-2010, 12:50 PM	#18
Tamia Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Here, there, and everywhere. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,384	Originally posted by photolady ...I guess one would need a stronge macro lens to see the brush-footed part. If only they would wear their name tags! Originally posted by foxglove ...Tamia, I'm pretty sure yours is a skipper. ... I'm out to redeem moths, but I do enjoy butterflies, too. There are some lovely shots so far. Julie Julie, I couldn't agree more with you about the poor moth. I like both moths and butterflies, and am glad that you pointed me toward a possible ID for "my" critter. Googled and found that it is probably the least skipper. Here are some pix and a description.

07-08-2010, 01:44 PM	#19
ramseybuckeye Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hampstead, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 17,290 Original Poster	Originally posted by CGottfried It's a mourning cloak. Around here, in central Pennsylvania, they're among the earliest butterflies one sees in the spring (having overwintered in a crevice, generally). Thanks for the ID, Timing makes sense, Spring weather comes a lot later out there. This was mid June and still had some snow in the high country.

07-08-2010, 07:53 PM	#22
photolady95 Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Cruising the forum watching his back Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,712	i completely forgot about Skippers. Now I have one I took some years ago in Minnesota. I never did get an ID on it. It's not the best of my photography either, so please excuse the blurry image. I believe this is a Florida White, Sulfur perched on a Lantana blossom.

07-09-2010, 05:06 AM	#23
foxglove Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Atlantic Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,049	Originally posted by photolady I have one I took some years ago in Minnesota. I never did get an ID on it. It's not the best of my photography either, so please excuse the blurry image. Oooh, oooh, nice!! It's probably a white-lined sphinx (see Some kind of Sphinx - Hyles lineata - BugGuide.Net). Go moths!

07-09-2010, 05:37 AM	#24
foxglove Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Atlantic Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,049	Originally posted by Tamia Julie, I couldn't agree more with you about the poor moth. I like both moths and butterflies, and am glad that you pointed me toward a possible ID for "my" critter. You're welcome, and I'm glad there are others who appreciate the moths. Given that they outnumber butterflies by at least 10 to 1, I think they deserve some attention! I find BugGuide quite useful: Welcome to BugGuide.Net! - BugGuide.Net. Some of the IDs are a little wonky, but you can at least get an idea of what you've got with a little digging.

07-09-2010, 07:15 AM	#25
photolady95 Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Cruising the forum watching his back Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,712	Thanks for ID and comments on my Moth, Julie. And thanks for the newest addition to my bug guides. I've bookmarked this guide, and will pursue more of it later today.

07-09-2010, 09:00 PM	#26
ramseybuckeye Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hampstead, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 17,290 Original Poster	This butterfly and hundreds like him were flying along the road in the Greenbriar section of Great Smokey Mountains National Park in Tennessee. I think it's a Pipevine Swallowtail.

07-10-2010, 10:08 AM	#27
Jools Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: SW Wisconsin by way of Venezuela Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,398	Some beautiful shots of moths and butterflies. I have to admit that I love their coloring and patterns. In fact, I borrow alot of them for my stained glass work. Nature certainly keeps me in awe. Here are a couple of moths taken this Spring. And yes Tamia, I wish they had name tags too!

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07-10-2010, 10:28 AM	#28
CGottfried Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: State College, PA Posts: 44	Originally posted by ramseybuckeye This butterfly and hundreds like him were flying along the road in the Greenbriar section of Great Smokey Mountains National Park in Tennessee. I think it's a Pipevine Swallowtail. With the row of dots along the back of the hindwing, as well as the touch of orange, my guess would be a female spicebush swallowtail. The pipevine's dots are almost invisible.

07-10-2010, 05:31 PM	#30
ramseybuckeye Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hampstead, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 17,290 Original Poster	No idea on this colorful butterfly