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02-13-2011, 09:58 PM   #181
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I've been following this thread for a while now. I only had one rejection - because I only submitted one shot. I was very fond of it and it was certainly one of my best at the time. Comments were along the lines of "not special enough". No technical issues with the photo. My reaction was to really check out the what shots DO get accepted. 15 minutes later I was agreeing with the judges. My photo just wasn't at the same level as 90% of the shots that did get into the gallery.

What now? I'm waiting for that next best shot

02-13-2011, 10:24 PM   #182
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QuoteOriginally posted by whitelotus9 Quote
The photo of the Hibiscus blossom was taken with my Pentax IST DL camera using a SMC Pentax-FA 28-90mm lens. The camera was set for AUTO so it managed the aperature and the focus. It was not breezy that day and there was a "in focus" indication in the viewfinder when I tripped the shutter.

What is interesting about photographing a hibiscus blossom is that part of the blossom sticks out from the petals by several inches...enough that both parts of the blossom can NOT be in focus at the same time, either the petals or the stamen will be in focus while the rest will be soft or some point in between will be in focus. That's just the nature of that type of blossom. For the judges to expect it all to be sharply focused is insane! When my camera focused on the blossom, it focused on the closest part which left the petals less than crisply focused.

I'm wondering how much longer we're going to put up with the judging and PEG before everyone calls for it to end and PEG to be shut down. I propose starting to identify what the judging for PEG should be like...how can we seek to improve the broken system.... Maybe the right people will read it and listen...
I looked at all 3 of the submissions in your gallery. Yep, That's right. Shut the broken PEG down because your blown out, jpeg artifact infested, over processed shot didn't get in and the judges didn't 'get it'. If you read the initial post of that other PEG thread you spent so much time in about a month ago you would have seen that the PEG is meant to be the best of the best. Sorry but those photos don't cut it. I'm no stranger to having issues with 'the judges' but shutting it down is a little extreme, don't you think?

QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
From your rationale I cannot see how your above statement follows. Shut PEG down? For not accepting your image?

The attempt to justify the photo as being PEG-worthy is specious and unfounded. Are you assuming that judges are seeing the 'sharpness' issue as the only matter in question for the image? If you posted your image in question in the Photo Critique forum as suggested you may be surprised to see the responses.

Please avoid catastrophisation.
I had to look that one up...

What is Catastrophizing? | Psych Central

02-13-2011, 10:41 PM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
From your rationale I cannot see how your above statement follows. Shut PEG down? For not accepting your image?

The attempt to justify the photo as being PEG-worthy is specious and unfounded. Are you assuming that judges are seeing the 'sharpness' issue as the only matter in question for the image? If you posted your image in question in the Photo Critique forum as suggested you may be surprised to see the responses.

Please avoid catastrophisation.
I was not suggesting PEG be shut down for not accepting MY photo! I was suggesting it should be shut down because of the highly inconsistent judging that has been documented in this forum by all of the people that have posted about the comments made (when they were made) in justifying rejection of their photos. In most cases, there seems to be one or two judges that will comment positively about something in someone's photo while the other judges will dislike that item. I realize that like everyone else, each judge will have his/her opinions about a given photo or the various elements of a photo and those opinions may not be in the ballpark with any of the other judges. There is also the documented (in this forum) problem where a photographer will take a photo for a particular reason or to capture a scene in a given way only to have the judges reject the photo for the very reasons it was taken.

In the case of a hibiscus blossom, it is virtually impossible (without a LOT of PP) to have both the stamen and the petals all crisply focused! That is because the stamen are extended out from the petals by about 1 to 2 inches or more so when one is in focus, the other would be out of focus. The two are not in the same plane. One thing I want to look into is getting a split image focus screen installed in my IST DL to make it easier for me to determine when a photo is in focus.

Instead of trying to get the judging consistent, I think I'll spend my time taking photos and learning and working with PSE...

Last edited by whitelotus9; 02-13-2011 at 11:08 PM.
02-14-2011, 02:23 AM   #184
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QuoteOriginally posted by whitelotus9 Quote
In the case of a hibiscus blossom, it is virtually impossible (without a LOT of PP) to have both the stamen and the petals all crisply focused! That is because the stamen are extended out from the petals by about 1 to 2 inches or more so when one is in focus, the other would be out of focus. The two are not in the same plane. One thing I want to look into is getting a split image focus screen installed in my IST DL to make it easier for me to determine when a photo is in focus.
You're assuming the judges don't know this. I'm sure you'll find this is not the case.

QuoteQuote:
Instead of trying to get the judging consistent, I think I'll spend my time taking photos and learning and working with PSE...
Good idea. I'm with you on that one.

02-15-2011, 12:06 PM   #185
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Here is a resubmit of a previous rejection. It looks like the image just misses the mark no matter how I slice it.



Judges Comments:

* Not enough detail/too many artifacts.

* It's nice and all but I keep wanting to see the rest of the circle in the ceiling...

* A definite improvement, however now it looks unbalanced due to the lower area of negative space impeding onto the above featured light display - please try again with a crop further towards the end of the stage near the beginning row of floor seats and it will have a better chance of getting through.

* You left the stage but there is nothing on it.

* You cut the overhead that was forming a nice circular design element.

* Sharp!

* Looks familiar Yes Vote!

* Well the crop certainly takes away the upward angle look of the photo but I liked the back stage viewpoint of your original submission. I just would like to have seen it straightened on the sides (perspective correction) was all.

Tim
02-15-2011, 12:13 PM   #186
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Don't be discouraged Tim. It really is an impressive shot, but the judges comments are quite pertinent. I've also had a number of submissions that have had 2 or 3 revisions that also don't quite make it in for one reason or another.
02-15-2011, 12:30 PM   #187
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Don't be discouraged Tim. It really is an impressive shot, but the judges comments are quite pertinent. I've also had a number of submissions that have had 2 or 3 revisions that also don't quite make it in for one reason or another.
Thanks Ash. I'm far from discouraged. The image has meaning to me as shot and I like it a lot. However, it looks like it would need a re-shoot to make it Gallery worthy. If I get a chance to shoot it again, I'll keep the suggestions in mind.

Tim

PS: You're up kind of late aren't you?

02-15-2011, 12:38 PM   #188
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It's 5.30am here mate.
Indeed a reshoot would be great for that scene, encapsulating the entire ceiling light feature and not having as much stage in the frame might make this one a real winner.
All the best.
02-15-2011, 12:47 PM   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
It's 5.30am here mate.
I thought the time difference was closer to 12 hours. I need to become more "World" aware. I generally start my day at 5:30am also, so I feel your pain.

Tim
02-15-2011, 01:05 PM   #190
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QuoteQuote:
* Not enough detail/too many artifacts.
Somebody must have an eagle eye or they are blowing it up 500%. On two different monitors, one LCD and a CRT flat screen, I'm not seeing any Artifacts. Am I missing the point of the comment? Artifacts to me are the result of over sharpening and pushing exposure too far and they cause a jagged like appearance. .

02-16-2011, 05:20 AM   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
Somebody must have an eagle eye or they are blowing it up 500%. On two different monitors, one LCD and a CRT flat screen, I'm not seeing any Artifacts. Am I missing the point of the comment? Artifacts to me are the result of over sharpening and pushing exposure too far and they cause a jagged like appearance. .

I agree with your definition. I think the judge mistakenly thought some of the lights in the background were artifacts. This is the second time I've gotten a comment like that and I could see no artifacts.

Tim
02-16-2011, 06:01 AM   #192
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QuoteOriginally posted by atupdate Quote
I agree with your definition. I think the judge mistakenly thought some of the lights in the background were artifacts. This is the second time I've gotten a comment like that and I could see no artifacts.

Tim
I couldn't see any artifacts, either, and wondered if I knew if I had the correct definition for artifact. I've received some very thoughtful and helpful comments from judges on recent submissions ( now added to my rejections folder) which helped me see the photos from a new light. However, I do get an occasional comment which makes me wonder what a judge might be thinking (or not). In a recent one, a judge said he/she had commented on a "nearly identical version of this" photo, but if that's so, it wasn't a photo from me. I had to scratch my head over that one.
02-16-2011, 01:03 PM   #193
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Probably not worth getting hung up on that particular comment. The rest do apply and make sense.
Artefacts aren't a feature of the above image, but the framing and composition are the main issues that have greatest bang-for-buck aspects for improvement.
02-16-2011, 03:12 PM   #194
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Not hung up on it. I just can't see them and wonder A: How anyone else can and/or B: What they might be considering to be Artifacts.

02-16-2011, 05:14 PM   #195
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Probably not worth getting hung up on that particular comment. The rest do apply and make sense.
Artefacts aren't a feature of the above image, but the framing and composition are the main issues that have greatest bang-for-buck aspects for improvement.
No disagreement there. The only thing I'm disappointed in is missing a potential great shot in such a unique setting.

Tim
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