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03-03-2011, 06:52 AM   #226
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QuoteOriginally posted by thoughton Quote
So are you one of the judges Jeff?

And you also were hoping that pic of the red rose would get in?
Yes, Jeff is a judge.

Tim

03-03-2011, 07:13 AM   #227
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QuoteOriginally posted by thoughton Quote
So are you one of the judges Jeff?
Yes.

QuoteQuote:

And you also were hoping that pic of the red rose would get in?
If you have something to say about the photo, go ahead and spit it out.

03-03-2011, 07:20 AM   #228
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Well ... okay

I don't mean to be offensive, but which part of that rose is in focus?
03-03-2011, 07:30 AM   #229
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The DOF of the photo is very thin, shot at f2.8 (100mm) but the left side of it.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3410/4637105788_53616d2fcd_o.jpg

To answer your other question, I was a little iffy about submitting it. The above linked photo isn't THE photo I put out there as I had corrected the processing errors I would generally knock other photos for. But to answer your focus question, there it is.



03-03-2011, 07:46 AM   #230
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Hmm okay, if you say so The in-focus part just seems like a featureless part of a petal to me though. What is the focal point?

Many apologies for being blunt, but I guess I don't understand how you can possibly achieve a successful photograph of a flower where both the front and rear of the flower head are outside the DoF. And to be honest it's worrying that you as a judge could consider this photo as a possible PEG candidate.
03-03-2011, 07:51 AM   #231
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Reread my comment below the link.

03-03-2011, 08:10 AM   #232
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I don't need to re-read it, I read it the first time.

03-03-2011, 08:46 AM   #233
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Then there is no point in continuing this discussion, Right?

03-03-2011, 01:00 PM   #234
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I was concerned about having undue judge scrutiny from the very start of this thread. I agree with Tim that it's served some purpose in helping some members with obviously well executed images to sharpen their PP skills and get some feedback on what does and doesn't work in their photos. However if this thread turns into judge bashing even if by a couple of members here, it will risk being closed.

Judges are free to submit whatever work they want, even their less promising images, and should be permitted to do so without reproach. If people are unhappy with PEG and want to go for the next level of galleries, I'd suggest they'd register with DPChallenge - A Digital Photography Contest or 1x.com - Best photos on the web and see how they go there...
03-03-2011, 01:21 PM   #235
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
I was concerned about having undue judge scrutiny from the very start of this thread. I agree with Tim that it's served some purpose in helping some members with obviously well executed images to sharpen their PP skills and get some feedback on what does and doesn't work in their photos. However if this thread turns into judge bashing even if by a couple of members here, it will risk being closed.
And I would hope this thread would be locked if this becomes the norm. Yes, by nature there will be some complaining in a thread like this, as there is rejection involved in the selection process. But discovering that there are inconsistencies in the judges comments in not necessarily bad, as it shows that the judges are made up of a diverse cross section of members.

QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Judges are free to submit whatever work they want, even their less promising images, and should be permitted to do so without reproach. If people are unhappy with PEG and want to go for the next level of galleries, I'd suggest they'd register with DPChallenge - A Digital Photography Contest or 1x.com - Best photos on the web and see how they go there...
My fourth highest scoring image at DPC was rejected for the Exclusive Gallery. The challenge subject was aimed towards the more artistic genre and not the eye candy generally associated with any voted/judged based process.

Tim
03-03-2011, 01:49 PM   #236
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All fine Tim, but we'll going to have to come to an acceptance at some stage that PEG is imperfect and can only be 'improved' up to a point, limited by the personal opinion of volunteer judges who are not necessarily skilled photographers. Something has to give when you're looking for a free service, and if there were large numbers of reliable judges to choose from it might make it easier to get the best people for the job. I don't wish to justify the status quo, only telling it how I see it is.

Tim & Tanner, you both know you have what it takes to create good photographic art, and don't need PEG to confirm this for you.
03-03-2011, 02:43 PM   #237
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
All fine Tim, but we'll going to have to come to an acceptance at some stage that PEG is imperfect and can only be 'improved' up to a point, limited by the personal opinion of volunteer judges who are not necessarily skilled photographers. Something has to give when you're looking for a free service, and if there were large numbers of reliable judges to choose from it might make it easier to get the best people for the job. I don't wish to justify the status quo, only telling it how I see it is.

Tim & Tanner, you both know you have what it takes to create good photographic art, and don't need PEG to confirm this for you.
Ash,

I think we are of the same opinion on this but I think you express your a little better than I. Below are my thoughts in general:

1. I think the current format of the PEG and the judging is fine. The inconsistency in the comments shows a diversity in photographic styles and preferences and represents a good cross section of the membership. When you get enough yes votes, then your image has broad appeal both aesthetically and in photographic technique.

2. Acceptance or rejection to the gallery has no bearing on the talent level of the photographer. It only has bearing on the appeal of the image to the judges / general audience. The judges cannot fully understand the photographer's intent, the difficulty level of capturing the image, or why I like my image enough to submit it. They can only judge the image for how it appeals to them.

3. Since I started this thread, I've come to appreciate the conflicting comments from the judges. This tells me that the image lacks a strong enough focal point / wow factor to appeal to the masses. I've had a chance recently to donate some images to a silent auction to raise funds for someone fighting cancer. All of the images I picked are in the Exclusive Gallery or the PPG.

4. The primary disappointment I have with this thread (besides any negative comments aimed at the judges) is that there are only a small number of members that post their rejects. Although the large number of views does indicate there is interest in the topic.

Tim
03-03-2011, 04:52 PM   #238
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QuoteOriginally posted by atupdate Quote
Ash,

I think we are of the same opinion on this but I think you express your a little better than I. Below are my thoughts in general:

1. I think the current format of the PEG and the judging is fine. The inconsistency in the comments shows a diversity in photographic styles and preferences and represents a good cross section of the membership. When you get enough yes votes, then your image has broad appeal both aesthetically and in photographic technique.

2. Acceptance or rejection to the gallery has no bearing on the talent level of the photographer. It only has bearing on the appeal of the image to the judges / general audience. The judges cannot fully understand the photographer's intent, the difficulty level of capturing the image, or why I like my image enough to submit it. They can only judge the image for how it appeals to them.

3. Since I started this thread, I've come to appreciate the conflicting comments from the judges. This tells me that the image lacks a strong enough focal point / wow factor to appeal to the masses. I've had a chance recently to donate some images to a silent auction to raise funds for someone fighting cancer. All of the images I picked are in the Exclusive Gallery or the PPG.

4. The primary disappointment I have with this thread (besides any negative comments aimed at the judges) is that there are only a small number of members that post their rejects. Although the large number of views does indicate there is interest in the topic.

Tim
^ this
03-04-2011, 12:08 AM   #239
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QuoteOriginally posted by atupdate Quote
Ash,

I think we are of the same opinion on this but I think you express your a little better than I.
On the contrary Tim, you've articulated the sentiment both well and accurately.
03-04-2011, 02:31 AM   #240
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Judges are free to submit whatever work they want, even their less promising images, and should be permitted to do so without reproach.
While that is a fair and equitable approach, it's not the point I was making. If a Judge considers a "less promising image" to be good enough to get into the PEG, doesn't that say something about the standard of images the Judge is willing to vote in?

So, please keep in mind that I am not criticising Jeff's photo just for the sake of it, or out of some warped sense of revenge. He's a grown man, I'm sure he is happy to receive comments on his photo. After all, that's what we're all being told in this thread - the comments we receive on our photos are only comments and not to be offended by them.
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