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01-08-2011, 05:06 AM   #16
Ash
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This was to be the first mirror lens entry to make it, but alas - no.



Interestingly, both comments that got to the email advising me of the rejection were very positive. So the 'no' voters offered no comment...

01-08-2011, 07:20 AM   #17
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I've had rejections where all of the comments were positive, too, which is a bit of a puzzlement. I submitted this one because it got a lot of favorable response when I put it in Post Your Pictures (which is one of the reasons why I enter any photo into the PEG -- many thumbs-up comments in other parts of the forum):

Whorled Fern

01-08-2011, 10:27 AM   #18
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Tamia - Nice shot. That was one of the reasons I posted my barn shot too, plenty favorable comments about it in the thread where it was originally posted, POTW I think...so I re-cropped it and submitted...
01-08-2011, 02:19 PM   #19
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That's right Tamia. I think you'd have a hunch that one particular image is PEG worthy and only need a minor adjustment to get it right and approved in a gallery. But if there aren't any comments of the sort to guide you, you may want to have it critiqued by yourself and some trusted others before you resubmit.

I do think it's courtesy on the part of judges to provide a constructive comment if they're rejecting an image as is but believe it has a good chance of getting in with some minor PP work done on it

01-08-2011, 05:50 PM   #20
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Thanks very much for the encouragement, Ash. I haven't given up on the whorled fern image, but haven't had time to work on it or other potential submissions lately.

The hard part is knowing how one might improve a photo if the comments are contradictory. I've actually had photos garner the comment that it's very sharp and dynamic, while the next comment is that the image is not very interesting and not sharp enough!
01-08-2011, 07:12 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tamia Quote
The hard part is knowing how one might improve a photo if the comments are contradictory. I've actually had photos garner the comment that it's very sharp and dynamic, while the next comment is that the image is not very interesting and not sharp enough!
There are also images that have been approved in the gallery that I have disapproved of. Such is the reality with subjective reviews.
So now the trick is to find the improvement that would impress the most judges to shift the democratic vote to an overall yes.

Last edited by Ash; 01-09-2011 at 02:06 PM.
01-09-2011, 09:57 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
This was to be the first mirror lens entry to make it, but alas - no.

Interestingly, both comments that got to the email advising me of the rejection were very positive. So the 'no' voters offered no comment...
I think it would be reasonable that any no vote should not be counted unless it has a comment. That would make the gallery not only a great collection of images but also a learning tool (for learning what the judges are looking for) It only takes a few words to hit the major "low" points.

Tim

01-09-2011, 10:10 AM   #23
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I have gotten quite a few back with no comment whatsoever and that really was not helpful. Also comments like "boring" or "get rid of that annoying leaf" seem overly harsh without being the least bit helpful when it comes to gaining any insight into what the judges mean or want. Oh well, I go through periods where I send something in but my hopes are not high. Tamia, I love that shot.
01-09-2011, 10:22 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tamia Quote
I've had rejections where all of the comments were positive, too, which is a bit of a puzzlement. I submitted this one because it got a lot of favorable response when I put it in Post Your Pictures (which is one of the reasons why I enter any photo into the PEG -- many thumbs-up comments in other parts of the forum):

Whorled Fern
Tamia,

Like Ash, I also like this shot. If you would like a couple of suggestions on different ways to present this image, let us know and I'm sure a couple of us would be happy to "play" around a bit with it.

Tim
01-09-2011, 10:31 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by slowpez Quote
I have gotten quite a few back with no comment whatsoever and that really was not helpful. Also comments like "boring" or "get rid of that annoying leaf" seem overly harsh without being the least bit helpful when it comes to gaining any insight into what the judges mean or want. Oh well, I go through periods where I send something in but my hopes are not high. Tamia, I love that shot.
Yes, I agree that some of the comments received can seem very direct but almost all comments are helpful if you read between the lines. Boring could be stated as "The subject matter doesn't hold my interest very long". Less direct but still lets you know that even if you think the image is interesting, at least one person/judge didn't.

I had a comment on one of my rejections I had before I started this thread. It stated "looks like a snapshot". I not sure I fully agree since the subject wasn't dead center and the I thought the image told a story. However, the image must not have had that great of a story, at least to one of the judges.

Tim
01-09-2011, 11:40 AM   #26
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Susan, thanks much. The same was true for me with the earlier submissions -- no comments. Then I'd at least get some, which is helpful for trying to figure out what it is that judges feel is important. It also helps train the eye to see photos more subjectively. But something like "it does nothing for me" without elaboration doesn't really help. I would imagine that being a judge could take quite a lot of time, leaving little to spend on each submission.

QuoteOriginally posted by atupdate Quote
Tamia,

Like Ash, I also like this shot. If you would like a couple of suggestions on different ways to present this image, let us know and I'm sure a couple of us would be happy to "play" around a bit with it.

Tim
Tim, yes! I'd love feedback on the Whorled Fern photo. I was thinking of cropping it to tighten it up and accentuate the curvy nature of the fern, while also getting rid of the softer edges.

By the way, Ash, I forgot to say that I like the mirror lens photo. I can just about feel the adrenaline rush those anglers must have experienced.
01-09-2011, 01:41 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by slowpez Quote
I have gotten quite a few back with no comment whatsoever and that really was not helpful. Also comments like "boring" or "get rid of that annoying leaf" seem overly harsh without being the least bit helpful when it comes to gaining any insight into what the judges mean or want. Oh well, I go through periods where I send something in but my hopes are not high. Tamia, I love that shot.
Susan, I'd encourage you to consider your images well before submitting - look for things that judges may spot and find either disconcerting or disinteresting, and deal with them as you can. If you have doubts about a photo getting through, it is less likely to do so.

Indeed, great images go well beyond excellent lighting, IQ and composition. They're also about impacting subject matter, good DoF control and the removal (or framing out) of distracting non-subject elements in the image. That is the tougher bit, which I believe PEG is after.

As for unhelpful one-word responses (or no responses), this is a matter of judge demeanour that is difficult to address. Don't expect such feedback to be akin to photo critique - it should provide basic information as to the reasons why an image is excluded from the gallery. If a judge is interested to see a resubmit, then comments to assist with the improvement of the image could be included. But this is left at the discretion of the judge.
01-09-2011, 05:40 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tamia Quote
Tim, yes! I'd love feedback on the Whorled Fern photo. I was thinking of cropping it to tighten it up and accentuate the curvy nature of the fern, while also getting rid of the softer edges.

Here is my attempt from your small jpeg. Cropping was the first thing that came to my mind when I offered to work on your image for you. I think a great title for this image is Nature's Aperture Blades



1) 8x10 crop ratio
2) Copied a leaf and used it to cover the leaf in the lower left that had a big hole showing a brown leaf under it (There is another leaf with a hole next to it that I almost covered as well.).
3) Levels adjustment (gamma at 1.17 and reset black point at 17)
4) Unsharp Mask - Radius @ 0.75, Strength @ 75.

Tim

Last edited by atupdate; 01-09-2011 at 06:03 PM. Reason: I removed an incorrect Photoshop term after seeing Ash's explanation.
01-09-2011, 05:59 PM   #29
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I like it Tim & Tamia.
The crop works for the improved composition - the 'eye' of the image is well placed.
The image is sharper, more defined.
USM on PS has separate strength, radius and threshold sliders. I tend to keep strength at 75-100%, radius at 0.8-1.0 and threshold from 3-7.
The levels adjustment also helped boost the contrast a touch - I'd also suggest a slight boost to the greens by selective colouring, and by the same tool, take out some of the 'rusted' look of the dead portions on some of the leaves - but as it is, it looks naturally attractive.

Last edited by Ash; 01-09-2011 at 06:06 PM.
01-09-2011, 06:02 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
I like it Tim & Tamia.

USM on PS has separate strength, radius and threshold sliders. I tend to keep stregth at 75-100%, radius at 0.8-1.0 and threshold from 3-7.
I see, Threshold in PS is Clipping in Paint Shop Pro. I'll edit my post to ease any confusion.

Tim
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