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03-30-2011, 06:59 AM   #61
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Since I'm working regular hours now (and most likely will be until the end of april) I should be able to participate in this. Being displaced sucks but I should be documenting this whole experience anyway, right?! lol

03-30-2011, 07:21 AM   #62
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I'm going to sit this one out. Getting a daily shot is very tough right now with so much going on and I'm kind of running out of lenses unless I repeat. I've just missed a couple more days in the March challenge. Winter is hanging on and I'm patiently waiting to get my long glass out. I have an M 300/4 that I can't wait to put to use. I bought it in the fall and only have used it a couple of times. Maybe May when the snow starts to finally go and the birds return and things begin to turn green again.
03-30-2011, 07:25 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hambino Quote
Since I'm working regular hours now (and most likely will be until the end of april) I should be able to participate in this. Being displaced sucks but I should be documenting this whole experience anyway, right?! lol
Welcome back to the games and yes, you should. Whatever that experience is.

QuoteOriginally posted by photolady Quote
I still am not sure which lens to use this time. I have my two auto lenses, but I also have a Sears 135m 2.8 and a 50mm f2. I'd like to use the 135mm (m) lens, but I tried using it on the K100D and all I get is white photos. I'm sure there is something I'm not doing right but for the life of me, I can't seem to figure out what it is.
If you are using it in any mode other than M (if it's a K mount), then that's what you're doing wrong. Otherwise, it sounds like the aperture isn't stopping down at all (which would be the case if you're using it in any mode other than M).

03-30-2011, 07:25 AM   #64
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Paddy....I'm baaaack..

I bailed on the last one due to a heavy schedule at work and returning to college after a 25 year layoff. But even with my schoolwork I'm planning on giving it a go in April. Especially since I just got a new toy.....FA31.

03-30-2011, 07:28 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
Welcome back to the games and yes, you should. Whatever that experience is.
'

Thanks! And the experience is having to leave the place where you have build your life (Japan) and not know what is actually going to happen next because contracts are up in the air and there really is no quick solution to where we (my work group) should be in the interim (assuming we're going back to Japan) *sigh*
03-30-2011, 07:32 AM   #66
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Ah.... So it's business as usual. Good luck with whatever you are hoping to have happen.

03-30-2011, 07:32 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
If you are using it in any mode other than M (if it's a K mount), then that's what you're doing wrong. Otherwise, it sounds like the aperture isn't stopping down at all (which would be the case if you're using it in any mode other than M).
Well, see now I know why it isn't working. When I read one of the help threads, it said to use AV mode with m lenses. So, when the k-x gets here today, I'll try this lens again only in M mode.
Let me ask this. In M mode, I always shoot in this mode, and the slider for AF/MF is always at MF. And this leaves the aperture wide open, right? So, I have to use the Av button together with the e-dial to change aperture? Is this the correct way?

And thanks Jeff.

03-30-2011, 07:38 AM   #68
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In M mode, the AF/MF slider isn't going to matter. That is, unless you want to use Focus Trap (Catch In Focus), then you want it in AF (and have your camera set for AF-S). Simply put, if the slider is in AF, the camera will still look for focus before you can fire the shutter. MF, not, it will take the picture regardless of focus. M mode and the focus switch have nothing to do with each other.

If your lens was an M42 type lens, You Could use Av (with the lens in manual mode). In fact, All modes except M would then behave as in Av. The camera is not actually operating the lens if M42. It has no way of pushing that pin on the lens.

Edit.. I don't know exactly how your camera works. From what I understand, you have 1 dial that you can change either shutter or aperture with depending on the mode. If you are using an A lens, you then use the dial while pushing the button to change the other parameter. I believe the K-x works the same way. Since your Sears is an M type lens however (I'm assuming here), all you should have to do is set your aperture ring, in M mode, and hit the green button to center the meter (that's what it does) and set the shutter speed. From there, you can make adjustments for the exposure you Really want. I Personally find this all works best, with Spot metering using a Zone System type approach. That is, If I've spot metered an object that is White. To get the proper exposure, I'll hit the green button (never thought I would say that), and either open the aperture a couple stops, or slow the shutter a couple stops to Actually Get the White. A Black area, exactly the opposite. Note that if you take Any lens with an aperture ring off of A, it becomes, an M lens.


Last edited by JeffJS; 03-30-2011 at 07:50 AM.
03-30-2011, 08:11 AM   #69
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My sigma isn't a digital lens, but it is autofocus. But my Sears 135mm f2.8 is an A lens. On the K100D where I got the white pics, I had it set to AV instead of M. Though I think one time I did have it set to M and took a photo of a palm tree leaves and it came out ok. Then I started to use it again and for some reason, turned it to Av. Here's what I do with the Sigma, turn the aperture to A locking it in, then I use the e-dial to change shutter speed, and the av - + button, holding it down, and turn the e-dial to get aperture settings. That is how it works for an A lens.

QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
. Since your Sears is an M type lens however (I'm assuming here), all you should have to do is set your aperture ring, in M mode, and hit the green button to center the meter (that's what it does) and set the shutter speed. From there, you can make adjustments for the exposure you Really want. I Personally find this all works best, with Spot metering using a Zone System type approach. That is, If I've spot metered an object that is White. To get the proper exposure, I'll hit the green button (never thought I would say that), and either open the aperture a couple stops, or slow the shutter a couple stops to Actually Get the White. A Black area, exactly the opposite. Note that if you take Any lens with an aperture ring off of A, it becomes, an M lens.
Now almost all that you said, confused me. Except for the last sentence because I knew that.
What is considered the green button? My K100D has a setting called auto pic and is highlighted in green. I'm sure that's not what you meant, at least I'm partly sure.

btw, I don't own any M42 lenses now, wish I had kept the ones I had before, they'd bring more than I paid for them in 95.
03-30-2011, 08:42 AM   #70
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Good luck to everybody joining SiA! I think I'm not going to join this time, have to take a break after 3 straight Single Ins..
03-30-2011, 09:04 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by hagiri_11 Quote
Good luck to everybody joining SiA! I think I'm not going to join this time, have to take a break after 3 straight Single Ins..
I can imagine that, I think 2 in a row will be enough for me.
03-30-2011, 09:40 AM - 1 Like   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by photolady Quote
My sigma isn't a digital lens, but it is autofocus. But my Sears 135mm f2.8 is an A lens. On the K100D where I got the white pics, I had it set to AV instead of M. Though I think one time I did have it set to M and took a photo of a palm tree leaves and it came out ok. Then I started to use it again and for some reason, turned it to Av. Here's what I do with the Sigma, turn the aperture to A locking it in, then I use the e-dial to change shutter speed, and the av - + button, holding it down, and turn the e-dial to get aperture settings. That is how it works for an A lens.
Then something else is going on with the Sears. For some reason, it isn't being allowed to stop down. Slow or sticky aperture or something like that. I'll assume that with the lens mounted and in A, you get an aperture number rather than the F-- you would see with an M or M42 type lens.

QuoteQuote:

Now almost all that you said, confused me. Except for the last sentence because I knew that.
What is considered the green button? My K100D has a setting called auto pic and is highlighted in green. I'm sure that's not what you meant, at least I'm partly sure.

btw, I don't own any M42 lenses now, wish I had kept the ones I had before, they'd bring more than I paid for them in 95.
Ok, it usually does..

(in terms of spot metering and exposure)

1. Your meter assumes everything it sees is 18% (nominal) gray. It doesn't see color and has no real way of knowing what you are pointing the camera at (face recognition technology aside).
2. If you meter a White object. A white flower, a white shirt or blouse for instance and allow the meter to Center (think 0 EV compensation), The camera is assuming that object is in fact, 18% gray.
3. If you meter a Black object, the cameras meter will again, assume you are metering an 18% gray object.

The result of 2 and 3, will be under exposure and over exposure respectively if no further adjustments are made.

Some say to use the Histogram and expose to the right (ETTR). Some people live by this as if it's a gospel hard fast rule. I disagree. What *I* say to do, is look at your scene (unless you're just after a snapshot), decide What you want to present in the photo (final composition aside), and expose for that.

In the case of #2 for instance... Your whites and highlights will be a couple stops under exposed. BUT, all of the detail you could want, will be there. However, in the shadows and blacks, you will Lose detail. It may be recoverable in post processing with some masking, curve adjustments, dodging and burning, etc but for the sake of this discussion, assume it's gone.

In the case of #3 however, the exact opposite is true. That is, the photo will be Over exposed by a couple stops and your highlights will be blown out. These, as we all know, are far less recoverable than shadow detail. It's simply gone. This is why I am not an advocate of ETTR as a hard fast rule (and why I cringe whenever I see someone recommend it to a new shooter).

The difference from black to white and how far that scale will stretch, is Dynamic Range. Properly defined as a scale from black with detectable detail to white with detectable detail (pure black and pure white on the extreme ends of that scale). There are a lot of factors that affect it but our earlier cameras weren't capable of very much range. Enter HDR. The purpose of it is to stretch the dynamic range in our photos. The way it's accomplished is to mix exposures taken at a centered meter reading and under/over exposed images. Properly done, it's a very effective tool. Not properly done, we get these glowing images that are fun to look at but are nothing like the actual scene. Later cameras are getting more and more capable of stretching that DR scale and keeping details on the ends of the scale. The K5 is phenomenal in that respect.

Now that I've sufficiently confused you even more, here is a simple exercise.

1. Set your camera to RAW+JPG (so you have the RAW to recover that once in a lifetime shot).

2. Set the cameras Processing to show you a b&w image with no further corrections. No highlight or shadow corrections (which I think the K-x is capable of). Nothing. You want Lens, Meter, Sensor, and that's it.

3. Turn off any EV Compensation you have set up and turn off auto ISO (M mode does that automatically).

4. Set your camera to Spot meter.

5. Take a photo of a black and a white piece of paper (or similar but make sure both are in the frame), taking your exposure reading off of either one using the green button to center the meter reading. Lighting doesn't matter here, use a tripod or support if needed. Take a Second photo metering on the other object.

6. Look at the resulting B&W images. Yes, the images will be different. The photo metered on the White paper will be under exposed by a couple stops and will appear at whatever % gray the cameras meter is calibrated to. The photo metered on the Black paper will be Over exposed by the same amount (roughly).

7. Now, Take another shot, metering on the white object, only this time, Hit the green button to center the meter, and then adjust your exposure to let in 2 stops more light. Either open the aperture a couple stops or slow the shutter a couple stops (or simply use EV comp +2 if you're using an A type lens).

8. Take a 4th photo, this time metering the Black object (green button). Then, however you want to do it, adjust your exposure 2 stops by closing the aperture a couple stops or increasing the shutter speed a couple stops (EV comp -2).

9. Now look at the resulting photos from 7 and 8. They will appear Very similar if not exactly alike. You can adjust the compensation until they Are identical and the +/- range of your exposures, will be the dynamic range your camera is capable of (for all practical purposes).

It all sounds a lot more complicated than it really is but if you step through it, the clouds will part (with complete detail), you'll see the leaves in the dark forest, and you'll be able to rule your exposure world.

03-30-2011, 09:51 AM   #73
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I should check my post before posting. The Sears lens isn't an A lens. I was thinking isn't and wrote is...Sorry about that.
03-30-2011, 09:53 AM   #74
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Really well explained Jeff
03-30-2011, 10:54 AM   #75
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Good explanation. I've copied and printed it out so I can read it later.
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