[Heinrich Lohmann]

I am now thoroughly confused about PPG. The PPG rules state you can crop or dodge but not "overly manipulate" with filters and effects. Who determines what constitutes over manipulation. I had some pictures sit around on PPG for over a month and the last two were rejected overnight. Someone must make a yes/no decision before throwing them into the pile for membership voting, yes? Really, the last two were rejected too fast to have been posted on the voting forum.
By the way, I am not posting my rejects here because they are really beginner material. I have learned so much looking at those that did make though so it all helps.
Another thing I have noticed, almost no pictures get excepted from users of the K100 compared to those using other models. Does that mean that excellent pictures can't be taken with the K100 or that most people using it aren't capable of taking excellent pictures? I swear I am going to get one excepted someday then I can die happy.
Susan

Susan, I don't think that the camera model comes into play here. From the ones that I did get accepted they are almost evenly split between the K100D and the K10D.

[slowpez]

Susan, I don't think that the camera model comes into play here. From the ones that I did get accepted they are almost evenly split between the K100D and the K10D.

Thanks Heinrich, I was basing my observation on the numbers of photos accepted using each camera model. Of course it could just be that less people have the K100 or more people who submit photos use one of the other cameras. No real way to tell. Someday though, I am going to get one accepted then I can die happy (I also have to complete seeing all the sites mentioned in the book "1000 places to See Before You Die". If I only see 999 I will live forever .
Susan

[rparmar]

OK, I just today got my first photo accepted. Woo-hoo!

But that doesn't change my criticism of the system. And I look forward to many more rejections to come.

[slowpez]

OK, I just today got my first photo accepted. Woo-hoo!

But that doesn't change my criticism of the system. And I look forward to many more rejections to come.

I've enjoyed your photos posted here. Glad you had one accepted.

[ftpaddict]

There are definitely some outstanding shots here. I'm actually quite surprised they didn't make it. :\

[Jimbo]

To make sure I am not rejected, I don't post.. After seeing a numbers of photos that made it, I have plenty of work to do. Also, I always think my shots look great but in reality, they could all use improvement! Paul,, love all three of yours! Well, back to thinking I am better then a acutal am! Cheers JIMBO

[xs400]

These 3 shots of the Golden Gate Bridge were all rejected.

[borno]

Those are really good Frank!
here's my latest rejects (my wife loves this one)

[rmtagg]

one thing, unless they have changed, is if you convert your photo to black and white I think you have violated one of the rules. I may be wrong and will have to go read again. You can do some minor things, a little burning but out side of that they dont want pics manipulated with software. At least this is my understanding. Off to reread the rules again.

[Matjazz]

one thing, unless they have changed, is if you convert your photo to black and white I think you have violated one of the rules. I may be wrong and will have to go read again. You can do some minor things, a little burning but out side of that they dont want pics manipulated with software. At least this is my understanding. Off to reread the rules again.

AFAIK the rules really suggest minimally edited images, but practice is different. Overdone HDR images and revolved panoramas are quite common in PPG.

[MrApollinax]

Here is the rule talking about editing:

Photographs should not be overly manipulated with filters and effects. Some dodging and burning to reveal an image is allowed, however, it is not acceptable to move around pixels or add or remove elements. Cropping is allowed.

So cloning is a no no but cropping is allowed. I guess I'm a little curious on their aceptance of HDR images. There is a section in the submission form for notes or something like that and I usually put in what if anything I did to the image. ie Rotate, B&W conversion or crop.

[d.bradley]

Actually, I agree totally! But in this case the colours work with the photo, IMO. I think highly saturated images are boring when the colours overwhelm the other formal aspects of the shot, but here I thought they were in harmony.

Here is my reaction to that photo: It is a study in colour and geometry. The composition is fine. But really, it's all about the colours. The colours have been bumped in saturation, something which takes away from the reality of the photo. How is it different from one of the many sunset photos where people crank the saturation to force the photo to look more dramatic than it was in reality? Sure the colours work in harmony, but I would say this makes wonderful art, but not a spectacular photo. My criteria for evaluation of photographic art are significantly different from other forms of fine art.

Maybe I should have over-saturated it? In this case the muted monochromatic palette is part of the poetic form of the image. This is one of my favourite shots ever. I cannot think of any way it could be improved and so must conclude that certain types of photography are never going to make it into PPG.

I think there is a certain degree of hubrus in claiming that a photograph could not be improved upon. The perfect photo? I don't think so. Right off the bat, I can tell you that the principal photographic elements, the coils, each overlap with secondary out-of-focus visual elements in the background. This takes away from the themes of shape and form that you are trying to portray. Since this photo is designed for strong composition, and my reaction is that the composition is a little off, it doesn't have enough in the way of secondary visual elements to bring out a positive reaction to the photo as a whole.

This is one of the biggest problems with PPG. No image should be judged on a thumbnail. They should not even allow this possibility.

Agreed 100%. They should not allow a vote to be cast until the image has been viewed at full size. I cannot count the number of times I thought I would be disappointed by a photo, but had the most rewarding experience upon viewing full size.

zeek10d...I know you are trying to do a service to the photographic community by voting in the PPG, but I would suggest that votes are about quality, not quantity. We're not trying to fill a quota. If you don't want to view the photos at regular size, why would you visit a gallery in the first place? Why go through the voting process if you can't see the photo? Movie reviewers don't look at the first eleven seconds of a film and write a review...and photographs should not be judged by a 90x60 pixel thumbnail.

[rparmar]

d.bradley: Thank you for those comments. Actually I think you are dead right in all of them, including "I think there is a certain degree of hubrus in claiming that a photograph could not be improved upon." It was right of you to point that out.

I would learn so much if I got critique of this calibre more often.

To explain a bit more about my aesthetic: I actually like the tension in the coils (so to speak) and the fact that foreground and background clash in some places. I hate having a formally "perfect" image... there should be some movement and not a totally placid resting point for the eye.

For example, in the over-saturated buildings there is a crow on the rooftop that breaks the straight line. In the lower-right there are the top branches of a tree. Not sure who might notice these elements, but for me they introduce an element of discord, even if subliminally.

I could have cloned them out, but no. I like imperfections in my perfection.

[vdubbin099]

Here are a couple that didn't make the cut

[zeek10d]

zeek10d...I know you are trying to do a service to the photographic community by voting in the PPG, but I would suggest that votes are about quality, not quantity. We're not trying to fill a quota. If you don't want to view the photos at regular size, why would you visit a gallery in the first place? Why go through the voting process if you can't see the photo? Movie reviewers don't look at the first eleven seconds of a film and write a review...and photographs should not be judged by a 90x60 pixel thumbnail.

I'm not trying to hit a quota like u had mentioned. It's like looking at a preview in a movie, if you feel a movie preview aren't worth your time and money will you still sit through that 2 hrs and then review it's bad?

Do note that the PPG is for International Pentax users, and the loading time is different depending where you are from. For me it takes about 1-3mins to load 5 shots, I'll need review those 5 before I can moved on to another 5.

Again not about quota, sad to say that some shots aren't worth the time to load. You can tell a bad or average shot when you see one in thumbnail (at least for me). Example if you see a single flower macro shot in thumbnail, the messy background is sharper than the flower, would you still bother looking at the full shot? Unless the title is something like "Speck of dust on sensor", I won't bother going to view it full. Another example, a thumbnail shots a landscape sunset shot, but the color is just too bright and not interesting, nor is there any other subject on the sea. Would you still view it full?

Edit: For me, if a shot shows the focus subject is right in center with lots of space around and distracting element(s). Normally I'll put a NO regardless what size it's in. It's just not gallery quality. I'm also quite particular about macros, to me it's not just being sharp. If you show a simple bug on flower with not enough bokeh and wrong angle, I'll also put a NO regardless if it's thumbnail or full 14MP shot.

The PPG gave us a freedom to choose if we want to view it full, so if you really have problem with judging of thumbnails, I suggest you take it up with PPG. They can make us vote with 600+px if they feel you had proven your point