PP Competition 2 - 2009/08/21-28

mithrandir · 08-28-2009, 01:47 PM

Thanks Rense. I thought I had cursed the thread or something when the posts just stopped coming.

MRRiley · 08-28-2009, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by Rense

Here is my attempt...

EDIT: Apologies for my signature in the photo, but I thought I had no time, so I did not even consider to get rid of it. If wanted, I will remove the photo!

You were in time Rense...

And no worries about the sig though it does point out an issue.

Naturally, we all want attribution for our work and I am personally totally fine with anyone who took part in the challenge keeping or even printing copies for their own use. I do believe however that for any photos which remain online... either a discrete signature tag should be added attributing the original photo to the originating photographer and attributing the edits to the post-processing artist OR similar information should be displayed on the same page as the edited photo. The EXIF of the resulting image should also be edited to reflect this same information. These steps will help ensure the rights of both the original photographer and the editor.

How does this sound to everyone?

Mike

SWEngineer · 08-28-2009, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by MRRiley

Naturally, we all want attribution for our work and I am personally totally fine with anyone who took part in the challenge keeping or even printing copies for their own use. I do believe however that for any photos which remain online... either a discrete signature tag should be added attributing the original photo to the originating photographer and attributing the edits to the post-processing artist OR similar information should be displayed on the same page as the edited photo. The EXIF of the resulting image should also be edited to reflect this same information. These steps will help ensure the rights of both the original photographer and the editor.

How does this sound to everyone?

Mike

I think this issue has the potential to turn into a huge can-o-worms and possible kill off the PP challenge. Here's my suggestion.

The OP (challenge judge) must take resposibility for:

Posting file(s) already containing EXIF data documenting their copyright / license (e.g. creative commons).
Stating clearly what use is allowed by the contestants (who by participating agree to abide by them).
Stating clearly expectations on ownership / use / EXIF / tags etc. of derivative work (the PP'ed images submitted).

That way, no one has to remember the contest protocol. It can and should vary depending on the host's requirements & intent. It's the host's image, after all. For example if I ever win and host, I might say:

This image is released to the public domain. Have fun.

Or maybe I would be hardcore about it and say:

This image is (c) 2009 by ME. I grant all current and future members of PentaxForums.com the right to use and modify the original file for the sole purpose of creating a contest entry. I retain full (c) to all such derivative but grant the entrant unlimited personal use of their rendition at any size. All entries must have a text border at the bottom stating "PP done by yourname and (c) 2009 ME" and must include EXIF (c) information as documented in the original file. All entries publicly accessible 'on-line' for the contest or for other personal use must include this EXIF (c) data.

How does that sound as a counter proposal?

P.S. IANAL, but so far as I understand copyright law, the editor has no rights at all beyond 'fair use'(academic use, critique, parody, etc) except as granted by the copyright holder.

MRRiley · 08-28-2009, 04:53 PM

OK... time's up... now the FUN part starts. I will post the winner and runners up by tomorrow afternoon. This is gonna be tough to judge with so many outstanding entries.

Mike

As for the other part... I DO NOT want to kill these competitions, as they are way too much fun. It was just a question that was bound to come up at some point and perhaps its best that it came up early on.

For my part the license will be...

"The original photograph remains the property of the original photographer. Members of Pentax Forum are granted full authorization to alter or manipulate said image for the purposes of the Post Processing Challenge. They are also granted permission to use the resulting image for their own personal non-commercial purposes. Original EXIF must be maintained identifying the original photographer."

ozlizard · 08-28-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

"The original photograph remains the property of the original photographer. Members of Pentax Forum are granted full authorization to alter or manipulate said image for the purposes of the Post Processing Challenge. They are also granted permission to use the resulting image for their own personal non-commercial purposes. Original EXIF must be maintained identifying the original photographer."

That sounds fair Mike.

08-28-2009, 04:03 PM	#33
SWEngineer Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Albuquerque, NM Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 308	Originally posted by MRRiley Naturally, we all want attribution for our work and I am personally totally fine with anyone who took part in the challenge keeping or even printing copies for their own use. I do believe however that for any photos which remain online... either a discrete signature tag should be added attributing the original photo to the originating photographer and attributing the edits to the post-processing artist OR similar information should be displayed on the same page as the edited photo. The EXIF of the resulting image should also be edited to reflect this same information. These steps will help ensure the rights of both the original photographer and the editor. How does this sound to everyone? Mike I think this issue has the potential to turn into a huge can-o-worms and possible kill off the PP challenge. Here's my suggestion. The OP (challenge judge) must take resposibility for: Posting file(s) already containing EXIF data documenting their copyright / license (e.g. creative commons). Stating clearly what use is allowed by the contestants (who by participating agree to abide by them). Stating clearly expectations on ownership / use / EXIF / tags etc. of derivative work (the PP'ed images submitted). That way, no one has to remember the contest protocol. It can and should vary depending on the host's requirements & intent. It's the host's image, after all. For example if I ever win and host, I might say: This image is released to the public domain. Have fun. Or maybe I would be hardcore about it and say: This image is (c) 2009 by ME. I grant all current and future members of PentaxForums.com the right to use and modify the original file for the sole purpose of creating a contest entry. I retain full (c) to all such derivative but grant the entrant unlimited personal use of their rendition at any size. All entries must have a text border at the bottom stating "PP done by yourname and (c) 2009 ME" and must include EXIF (c) information as documented in the original file. All entries publicly accessible 'on-line' for the contest or for other personal use must include this EXIF (c) data. How does that sound as a counter proposal? P.S. IANAL, but so far as I understand copyright law, the editor has no rights at all beyond 'fair use'(academic use, critique, parody, etc) except as granted by the copyright holder. Last edited by SWEngineer; 08-28-2009 at 04:18 PM.

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08-28-2009, 01:47 PM	#31
mithrandir Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,895	Thanks Rense. I thought I had cursed the thread or something when the posts just stopped coming.

08-28-2009, 02:50 PM	#32
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275 Original Poster	Originally posted by Rense Here is my attempt... EDIT: Apologies for my signature in the photo, but I thought I had no time, so I did not even consider to get rid of it. If wanted, I will remove the photo! You were in time Rense... And no worries about the sig though it does point out an issue. Naturally, we all want attribution for our work and I am personally totally fine with anyone who took part in the challenge keeping or even printing copies for their own use. I do believe however that for any photos which remain online... either a discrete signature tag should be added attributing the original photo to the originating photographer and attributing the edits to the post-processing artist OR similar information should be displayed on the same page as the edited photo. The EXIF of the resulting image should also be edited to reflect this same information. These steps will help ensure the rights of both the original photographer and the editor. How does this sound to everyone? Mike

08-28-2009, 04:53 PM	#34
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275 Original Poster	OK... time's up... now the FUN part starts. I will post the winner and runners up by tomorrow afternoon. This is gonna be tough to judge with so many outstanding entries. Mike As for the other part... I DO NOT want to kill these competitions, as they are way too much fun. It was just a question that was bound to come up at some point and perhaps its best that it came up early on. For my part the license will be... "The original photograph remains the property of the original photographer. Members of Pentax Forum are granted full authorization to alter or manipulate said image for the purposes of the Post Processing Challenge. They are also granted permission to use the resulting image for their own personal non-commercial purposes. Original EXIF must be maintained identifying the original photographer."

08-28-2009, 05:28 PM	#35
ozlizard Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Bridgetown West Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 903	Quote: "The original photograph remains the property of the original photographer. Members of Pentax Forum are granted full authorization to alter or manipulate said image for the purposes of the Post Processing Challenge. They are also granted permission to use the resulting image for their own personal non-commercial purposes. Original EXIF must be maintained identifying the original photographer." That sounds fair Mike.