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01-21-2012, 02:54 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
When in full manual mode, all controls you need can be gotten to with the front/rear/top dials,iso & green buttons. You never have to go menu hopping, etc or even look at the screen. And it has an optical through-the-viewfinder DOF preview option. (You can set the screen to display nothing if you want -- no "status screen", no review after taking a shot, and if you leave it on M mode I think you can get it be totally blank all the time except when turning it on, can't you?) It may not be a K1000 specifically, but it is sure seems basically the same as any manual film camera (except for the smaller view).
If I used only a K-5 this could be workable (if the viewfinder were good enough to judge focus well), but I use film cameras as much as digital. All my 35mm film cameras have controls in the same place that work the same way, so any that I pick up is instantly comfy. The K-5 requires re-calibrating (me) every time. As a result I get a much higher percentage of keepers on my M9 or film cameras. Since the results of the M9 are outstanding, I'm not sure why I keep the K-5.
It's like changing to a car that doesn't have a steering wheel in front of you, or brake and gas pedals at your feet. The controls are still there, somewhere - but don't walk in front of me suddenly.

01-21-2012, 03:02 PM   #17
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If I had an M9 I'm not sure why I would have anything else either...
01-21-2012, 07:52 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kreddible Trout Quote
... and that peaked my interest, ...
The correct word is "piqued".
01-21-2012, 08:13 PM   #19
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Actually I've owned 3 Fuji digital cameras, the last two upscale point and shoots and they are not bad at all. I actually have taken some shots with the S7000 I had that were comparable to anything I've taken with my K-x to date. The macro function on the S7000 was terrific actually. I miss that sometimes. I have to work a lot harder to get the same shots with my K-x and a macro lens sometimes. The S7000 actually made taking a quick, near perfect macro shot pretty easy. It sucked in so far as taking long shots were concerned so basically it's been a trade off being able to use real zoom lenses vs very simple macro but since 90% of the shooting I do isn't macro that doesn't really matter. One of these days I'll get the hang of using a proper SLR lens with macro and it won't matter anymore I suppose but now and again I wish I hadn't gotten rid of the Fuji so quickly actually. I'm not nearly as good with macro using my K-x so far.

I do still think the K-x is a huge step up in some ways but then it's a proper DSLR and a darned good one at that. I've got a K1000 and several Spotties, and for me the K-x is a lot like using them only they are not digital, shrug. I've never used the video function, probably never will, and I just ignore all the program modes using my K-x 90% of the time anyway. I have absolutely no use for video in a DSLR and with decent cams costing practically nothing these days I just don't see the point in having it in a DSLR at all. But otherwise my K-x might as well be a digital K1000 for all that it matters. Any DSLR has a few bells and whistles but I think that the low end Pentax models I've seen are far less annoying in that way than not.

Yeah, I'd love to see a totally manual no video DSLR from Pentax that has a better sensor than the ones that they first used, but I'm not holding my breath. They don't make cameras just to sell to photography geeks like me unfortunately and the 90% of the rest of the people who are going to buy a DSLR apparently want all that extra stuff in there these days. I'm told it doesn't matter that all the electronic innards that take up space don't concern any of that anyway but I suppose it doesn't matter much in the end since I can't just get them to make a camera to my specs anyhow. So whatever, just because my camera can do some things I don't need doesn't mean I need to bother with them.

My folks barely do email, Google, and banking stuff on the big PC but on that thing I can do video editing, photo editing, sound editing, play games I never could play on my laptop, watch DVD's, and about half a dozen other things that simply bog my laptop right down trying. My laptop isn't even all that old but my video games look like crap on it and Photoshop barely runs on it and I've maxed the memory out pretty much. To my parents the PC is basically just an internet access device and not much else. If they type a letter on it once a year that's unusual. To me that PC is TV/VCR/DVD/MP3 player, a media editor, an internet access point, and office device, a book reader, a kitchen device (Yes, I said a kitchen device. I use programs on it to cook with at times.) whatever. It even helps me keep in shape as I play my exercise DVD's on it and do my workout that way. The family PC is in my house because it's on nearly 3/4 of the day I use it so much. My folks they come here once a day spend half an hour on it and that's it. Other than that it's pretty much my main machine even though they actually bought it.

Right now I am on the laptop because I am waiting for a couple of PC parts to come in so I can fix the ethernet (card died) and upgrade another card that needs it but you know what I'm not liking the relative simplicity of the laptop much. The way I work I can't be bothered to swap from the PC to the laptop and back again all day so I'm just using the laptop but I'm really not as happy using the laptop keyboard or the littler screen and I feel downright limited in doing a lot that I normally do on the PC. The funny thing is I once thought this laptop could do anything a PC could. Boy was I wrong. Some of those bells and whistles on the PC that I thought I didn't even need have gotten to be downright useful, lol.

It's all a question of what you get used to I suppose. I still love my SLR's but that doesn't mean I don't like using my DSLR and that I don't use it more than I do the SLR's because I sure do. There are advantages to both. Sometimes slowing down and using the SLR's helps me focus better mentally on my photography versus my gear, but then waiting on film to be developed, scanning it and all, that does get old at times. But I don't think the experience of taking pictures with either is all that different really. In the end it's just mechanics. You can use all the bells and whistles or ignore them. The choice is yours.

01-22-2012, 12:41 AM   #20
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thanks Steve. & I knew that too... sometime. seems I'm not as smrt as i thinked i was.
(& I have a similar saying 'it's a poor pool player who blames his stick'.)
01-22-2012, 12:48 AM   #21
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thanks for all the input folks. I'm just a stubborn old guy who likes what he likes.
I know I can just not use the bells & whistles. I only ever take the dial off the 'M' when I'm handing the camera to my wife. I just want the simplicity. I want the magic. I just assumed that less 'apps' in the camera & less 'weird-flippy-lcd-screen' & less video & less (...etc) would make for a body that might look exactly like the K1000.

that fuji sure is perty though.
05-24-2012, 08:57 AM   #22
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When I purchased my K5 I spent quite a while reading the manual and trying to get my head round all the different settings. In the end I dusted off my old K1000 and had a play with that just to remind myself that there are only so many settings that really matter. It certainly made using the K5 lots clearer.
05-25-2012, 06:15 AM   #23
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You still have your K1000 right?

WHY DON'T YOU GO TAKE PICTURES WITH IT?

Seriously...film isn't even close to dead. If you're so dead-set on using a K1000, go use one.

05-26-2012, 10:06 AM   #24
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Hmm... I was a bit surprised that there wasn't more support... Maybe you should have posted in the film-users' forum. A digital-ish K1000 has crossed my mind now & then. Having instant results would be nice & I am having more & more trouble getting film & getting it developed. If you don't live in the boonies you can't imagine how difficult this can be. Those are about the only reasons I would "need" a digital one. I liked a lot of what you said about the simple organic "feel" of working with the K1000. Since you are new you probably haven't seen, and would like, this thread.
Sure you can use a digital on manual & just ignore all the auto functions. But, well, that's kind of like driving a car with air conditioning that you never use. You paid more for it, & you have to lug it around while it saps your fuel economy with the extra weight, but you never turn it on. (No, my car doesn't have a/c!)
It's interesting to know that there are some cameras that people think are already pretty close to the K1000. If I get completely squeezed out of film I guess I would have to look at some of those. But, my K1000 is, what, 45 years old?, & it's still good as new. You can fork out some ridiculous amount of $$ for the latest digital & it's obsolete in a few years. When I read the buyers' guide in the photo magazine I get, I think about how many other things I could buy with that $2000, or how far I could travel on it while taking pretty satisfactory pictures with the camera I already have.
I guess I wouldn't be optimistic about Pentax "listening" to you... but good luck anyway. I always like to hear from other K1000 fans. Makes this little digital corner of the world not so lonely
05-26-2012, 01:04 PM   #25
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I'm always mystified at the fondness for the K1000. I didn't own one, but owned an SPF, which by almost all accounts was a more elegantly constructed camera of basically the same design (except for the mount.) It, and the takumar primes, definitely did have a far superior mechanical "feel" appeal that newer cameras absolutely don't have. But the K1000/SPF and lenses were not dramatically smaller or lighter than the current crop of APS cameras and lenses, and while the viewfinder was bigger (although not that great for a 35mm), that's a huge tradeoff for all the other features that digital has (even if you choose not to use them all.) Of all the relatively basic 35mm cameras that came and went, the K1000 was just not that outstanding an example - not even within the pentax line.

Paul
05-26-2012, 04:48 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by tibbitts Quote
I'm always mystified at the fondness for the K1000.
Agreed. I got one fairly recently; didn't have one Back In The Day; but have used some that were similar, and others both simpler and more complex. I have no problem with match-needle metering; I've used it on many cameras, and there's something like it in M mode on my K20D. The K1000 was certainly well-built, was justifiably popular as a student camera, had good reason to stay in production for decades.

But it's a product of its time, whose limitations are long gone. We don't see simplistic digicams, just because digicams are MUCH more complicated machines. Making these newer devices act like old ones isn't hard. (Maybe this has been discussed already - TL;DR) Don't like chimping and LiveView? Tape-over the screen. Don't like auto modes? Glue the dial to M. Et cetera. Just don't expect makers to do it for you, making a 'simpler' camera, because it won't sell enough to justify production. That's the reality.
05-26-2012, 05:23 PM   #27
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I am not in the camp of "bring back my K1000" (see earlier in thread), but many of us have affection for this thing because we learned on it, and because it was built like a tank (although later versions were made of a more lightweight material I discovered when recently acquiring one and comparing it to the one I've had bought new in the mid-80's). I literally fell in a gorge ("Ithaca is gorges") and broke several bones and nearly my neck. The K1000 went down with me and only needed to be wiped off. How can you not love it? And in the spirit of the discussion, it should be pointed out that many of its "limitations" were not limitations at the time either -- it was deliberately minimalist. The K1000 is just a Spotmatic with a K-mount, except it has LESS features than the Spotmatic.
05-26-2012, 06:11 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
...Just don't expect makers to do it for you, making a 'simpler' camera, because it won't sell enough to justify production. That's the reality.
Unless, of course, the label on the camera is something like Zeiss, Voigtlander, or Leica (or Fuji?). Interestingly, no-frills film cameras of very high quality are still made in 35mm, medium, and large format and the makers are in no danger of going out of business. It is my firm belief that a market does exist for a robust, compact, high-quality manual focus FF digital SLR. Much of the bulkiness of current product is related to supporting AF and high FPS. (Both require large batteries). I say:
  • Can the on-board flash
  • Put the AF and motorized drive support (and battery) in an optional grip
  • Interchangeable viewfinders
  • Optional LCD back
  • Basic power from 2 AA batteries
What you would have in the end would be a digital LX in a form factor similar to a MX or Olympus OM-1.

Now it is easy to say that there is no market for such a camera. I would counter by referencing the huge interest in the Fuji X-Pro 1. For sure, it is a very sophisticated camera in a plain wrapper, but many enthusiasts want a camera that allows for a kit that fits easily in a daypack and still leaves room for lunch. They also want a larger format and "quicker" handling. AF is great for the sports photogs or those with bad vision, but is more of a pain than a convenience when accurate and appropriate focus is part of the creative vision.


Steve
05-26-2012, 06:14 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by unixrevolution Quote
You still have your K1000 right?

WHY DON'T YOU GO TAKE PICTURES WITH IT?

Seriously...film isn't even close to dead. If you're so dead-set on using a K1000, go use one.
Amen brother...keep shooting film, and do it in that K1000. If you don't have one you need to go and buy one! If for some wierd and inexplicable reason you can't find one, buy a KM, or a Spottie.
05-26-2012, 06:35 PM   #30
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This really shouldn't be about technology. Technolgy is not static and will continue to advance (In spite of nostalgia, I'd bet there is not a single Luddite amounst us - especially when it comes to spell check). It's really about process, and all of us have our own individual process modes that we've developed over the years. Many of us are from the age where the process was film and our limitation was 36 exposures (the cutting edge technology of the day). We didn't waste shots because that cost money. And money had to be earned through work. So we were methodical in our process of photography to try and make each shot the best it could be, and this should not be any different with digital. I still own my ME Super and my PZ-1 (talk about two different technologies) and I'm teaching my kids photography through these cameras. And not because I couldn't do the same think with my K5 but because it's a technology that requires a certain process to be successfull, and that is what I'm trying to teach them.
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