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12-25-2013, 08:03 AM   #16
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Plastic

I think the plastic they use is high impact. I once dropped a k2000 on a wood floor and it had absolutely no signs of the drop.

12-25-2013, 08:49 AM   #17
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Great postings Asama. I learned a little something or two. Thanks.
12-26-2013, 11:21 AM   #18
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Hi Adam,

What impact does Pentax Forums have on Pentax HQ?
Is there any correspondence with the directors of Pentax forums on future developments of Pentax?

Despite there being millions of Pentax owners around the World,surely it's all the members of this site who are the most loyal, fanatical supporters of the Brand?
You guys would be closest to the coal face in terms of knowing what Pentax customers are wanting to see in possible future equipment.

How about we hear from you what you think the future should be for Pentax, & what could possibly get them back onto an equal footing with the big guns?
Let's be honest,they are in it to make money & we understand that; but they need to be thinking outside the box if they want to gain market share.
We will all benefit from that.
12-28-2013, 03:24 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asama Quote
there is absolutely no reason why Pentax could not go back to full metal construction.
I know the cost will increase, but so will the quality......remember the old days of dropping your K1000 or ME Super, no problem! All you ended up with was a dent in the body...not so today, a heavy fall results in cracked plastic. I think it's also the tactile experience of Metal & Leather for me....And the fact that it speaks of quality.
If they can make entire Audi A8's from aluminium, how about a lowly camera?.
Pentax K3 is probably made of more metal than K1000 was the last few years it was produced.
Modern DSLR has so much more stuff inside than an old manual focus SLR, so it's difficult to make them as sturdy. A dent in the body of a DSLR would probably shift something inside making it unusable.

12-28-2013, 03:41 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asama Quote
Let's be honest,they are in it to make money & we understand that; but they need to be thinking outside the box if they want to gain market share.
We will all benefit from that.
They have been thinking outside the box for a long time, or don't you think Pentax products the last few years have been different from competition? But it's also a big risk doing this as the products you bring out might not be what the market wants (Q and K01)
DA Limited lens series is another product line where Pentax stand out from competition, and camera like K-30, K-50 and K-500 have very different specification compared to competitors entry level cameras.

It's just not as simple as making different product and you will gain market share, you need to bring out the right type of product at the right time. Something new that the market have been waiting for. But then it will not take long time before competition will bring out the same type of product.
12-29-2013, 11:33 AM   #21
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Keep it simple

Hi Fogel70,

Yes it's not that easy if you are trying to cut in on the big guns when trying to play them at their own game.
So don't play to the same rules!

Punt the fact that Pentax is "The spirit of photography". And as such will start to produce a range of dlsr's specifically for the informed enthusiast.

This camera will therefore:
1: Be Full frame
2: Have a full metal body
3: Weather-sealed
4: Shake reduction internally.
5: Full backwards lens compatibility
6: Manual shutter and aperture settings only
7: Full digital controls on the back, as in screen,menus, white balance replay,erase and so on.

Basically cut out all the crap like video and all the user settings which cost so much to add but that are there for beginners..

How hard can that be, since Pentax already contain many of these features, which are the very ones which are giving them strategic advantages such as Shake reduction and weather-sealing.
12-29-2013, 12:40 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asama Quote
Basically cut out all the crap like video and all the user settings which cost so much to add but that are there for beginners.
Crippling cameras on features do not cut cost, it will only make the camera sell in lower volume. Which will lead to premium price (which limit sales even more). Just look on Nikon DF, which is basically a D610 without video, no built in flash, retro interface bolted on and 70% higher price tag.

For a camera to be sold with as low price as possible it need to attract as many users possible (which all have different needs) so the camera need to be as flexible as possible and full featured. It should work as well for users needing alot of automatic features as for those using the camera full manually.
(There is probably some users that only use the camera in bulb mode with a cable release, but they will not save money by finding a camera without a shutter button).

A Pentax DSLR without video might get 50% less new users to Pentax user base. Not that these users would use video very often, but as Canikon cameras have it, they are a safer choice. As a small manufacturer Pentax need to offer more useful features than the big boys to be able to attract new users.

When Pentax have grown they might offer specialized cameras for a small niche of users at a premium price. But I'm pretty sure that video sells a lot more cameras than crippling features will do.
12-29-2013, 02:02 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
Crippling cameras on features do not cut cost, it will only make the camera sell in lower volume. Which will lead to premium price (which limit sales even more). Just look on Nikon DF, which is basically a D610 without video, no built in flash, retro interface bolted on and 70% higher price tag.

For a camera to be sold with as low price as possible it need to attract as many users possible (which all have different needs) so the camera need to be as flexible as possible and full featured. It should work as well for users needing alot of automatic features as for those using the camera full manually.
(There is probably some users that only use the camera in bulb mode with a cable release, but they will not save money by finding a camera without a shutter button).

A Pentax DSLR without video might get 50% less new users to Pentax user base. Not that these users would use video very often, but as Canikon cameras have it, they are a safer choice. As a small manufacturer Pentax need to offer more useful features than the big boys to be able to attract new users.

When Pentax have grown they might offer specialized cameras for a small niche of users at a premium price. But I'm pretty sure that video sells a lot more cameras than crippling features will do.
When the world of motoring said go small,Ford produced the Mustang!
When the world of Rallying said go small, Audi produced the Quattro
When the world said there was no place for a second operating System, Steve Jobs launched Apple.
Decca records turned down a contract when the Beatles approached them, as they said their music was not mainstream enough..
Bill gates said recently, "when everyone is telling you to get an MBA, ........go farming".

I don't agree with you, you don't succeed by copying others, you succeed by moving the goal post!

12-29-2013, 03:09 PM   #24
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If I understand you correctly, you want Pentax copying all others in the latest trend of retro?
I just don't believe in looking back for moving forward. And that removing features adds value.

I want Pentax to be the front of the development of the cameras, and for them to set the standard that others copy, like they did in 60s. (but not return to the 60s!)
IMO they have already started to show that they are in front with their latest DSLR, they just need to improve some of their features.

I would not be surprised if K-50 has set the standard for upper entry level DSLR for the future. (FI 100% pentaprism with dual wheel interface).
They are not only attacked by above by Canikon, but also from below by mirrorless cameras, so they really need to keep adding value to the cameras, not removing features.
12-30-2013, 12:49 AM   #25
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Hi Fogel,

Apologies, I am obviously not making myself clear.
Firstly I also love the latest technology and that the latest DSLR's are jam packed with technology.
Like the big boys,Pentax would need to have products at different price points...beginner/casual,Enthusiast/Prosumer, Pro.
What I am suggesting here is that Pentax create a NEW category (moving the goal post theory).
Let's call it the ART category and the camera to launch with would have to be the DK 1000!

This camera will cut out the green mode,P,Sv,tv,av,Tav and only have M,B and X......unashamedly the K1000 of the digital era..(does this make the heart beat faster for those in the know reading this?)
The other option would be to retain the aperture and shutter speed "A" setting on the Aperture ring and Shutter speed dial for portraiture or sports orientated photos.....but for me I salivate at the thought of a TOTALLY MANUAL, DSLR!

Trust me,look at all the photos and read the comments, there are literally thousands of people on this forum who would be more than capable of using this camera and who shoot daily in manual mode, specifically because they want complete control. My camera never moves off the "M" setting! Even when doing moving sports photography. I already know the speed I need to shot at and it takes me only one or two shots before the aperture is set, then I focus on composition only.
All those other setting are simply a waste on me.

Pentax could take an existing body and modify it.......what have they got to loose?

Some one took a chance on Steve jobs crazy stupid ideas which made no financial sense and could not possibly find a home in the already MIcrosoft windows dominated market.
Bet you have some of his product in your home?
12-30-2013, 05:23 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asama Quote
Hi Fogel,

Apologies, I am obviously not making myself clear.
Firstly I also love the latest technology and that the latest DSLR's are jam packed with technology.
Like the big boys,Pentax would need to have products at different price points...beginner/casual,Enthusiast/Prosumer, Pro.
What I am suggesting here is that Pentax create a NEW category (moving the goal post theory).
Let's call it the ART category and the camera to launch with would have to be the DK 1000!

This camera will cut out the green mode,P,Sv,tv,av,Tav and only have M,B and X......unashamedly the K1000 of the digital era..(does this make the heart beat faster for those in the know reading this?)
The other option would be to retain the aperture and shutter speed "A" setting on the Aperture ring and Shutter speed dial for portraiture or sports orientated photos.....but for me I salivate at the thought of a TOTALLY MANUAL, DSLR!

Trust me,look at all the photos and read the comments, there are literally thousands of people on this forum who would be more than capable of using this camera and who shoot daily in manual mode, specifically because they want complete control. My camera never moves off the "M" setting! Even when doing moving sports photography. I already know the speed I need to shot at and it takes me only one or two shots before the aperture is set, then I focus on composition only.
All those other setting are simply a waste on me.
The problem is that Pentax just can't make cameras that are custom made for every users need. And this type of camera is hardly a new category, almost every manufacture has been making versions of this for some years. So Pentax would only be one of the latest manufacturer to join the retro trend.
What about making a "ME digital" with only aperture priority? Or maybe a "auto 110" version of the Q, with only full auto? I'm sure there are many users that would love cameras like that.

I know many users have a nostalgic view of photography, but it will not work well for a DSLR. It will not be the same thing as using a SLR from the 60s or 70s.
A camera like this might end up as a big disappointment for a lot of users, and just be loved by a few.

QuoteQuote:
Pentax could take an existing body and modify it.......what have they got to loose?
They will loose resources that could have been used for designing new features or improving existing ones. A project like this will be much more time consuming than you might think. The work needed for this might require more work than releasing a new improved DSLR with all existing features and a few new ones added.

QuoteQuote:
Some one took a chance on Steve jobs crazy stupid ideas which made no financial sense and could not possibly find a home in the already MIcrosoft windows dominated market.
Bet you have some of his product in your home?
No. I don't like products where the manufacturer limit the way they can be used, and try to convince me that they know better how I should use the product. Or forcing me to use software that I don't have to use with other products.
12-30-2013, 03:30 PM   #27
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Peace Brother

Hey Fogel70,

Me thinks it time we called a truce!
We clearly have a-posing points of view,and that's okay.

So unless someone else steps in, we gonna tear each other apart.
Let's agree to disagree,sit back and watch what Ricoh does with Pentax.

These are interesting times we live in and I hope we do see some new avenues being investigated in the DLSR market,either your way or mine.....or neither!

I bet it's cold in Sweden right now?
I am writing this at 12.30am having just returned from a Braai (barbecue in Yanky terms),and pool party. (Yes we swim at night in Johannesburg ....it's that warm!)

Cheers!

Last edited by Asama; 12-30-2013 at 03:39 PM.
12-30-2013, 06:16 PM - 1 Like   #28
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Yes you are right.
But It's always interesting to discuss stuff with other users with a different POV, but we will probably won't get any further on this.

Well, it has been one of the warmest December in Sweden for some time.
I kind of miss the snow (but I guess I'll be tired of it soon enough).

Was in South-Africa a couple of years ago on vacation . With a few days of safari, then some relaxing in Plettenberg Bay, and the finished off with some touristing in Cape-Town. You sure got a beautiful country, and you people are very friendly too.
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12-30-2013, 11:28 PM   #29
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You lucky sod!

Do you know how hard it is to see a leopard?
I grew up in Zambia,central/ southern Africa and moved to SA at 17, so I have been in the wild too many times to remember. In all that time I have only ever seen one Leopard at 100 meters.
Being nocturnal they hide away amongst rocky outcrops during the day,unlike the Lion who are out on the plains.

Great shot anyway!
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