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12-21-2013, 12:02 AM   #1
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Who needs Nikon or Canon!

Hi all my new found friends......Worldwide!

I studied Interior Design in Durban, South Africa between 1979 and 1981. The course included Photography. My lecturer was the famous Obie Oberholzer. (Google him!).
We were required to purchase a film era SLR to complete the three year course.Most other students pitched with full Aperture & shutter speed priority OM 10's & equivalent Nikon,Canon,Pentax & Minolta.

My Dad was tight on the bucks, having to put two sons through collage. Obie advised me to ''go buy the Ricoh KR 5!'' (The cheapest SLR in SA at the time).
In his words,....."the other students will kick your butt for the first six months, but being forced to do everything manually, you will learn the relationship between aperture & shutter speed & the affect these have on exposure, depth of field & so on, MUCH FASTER, & more intimately than anyone else.Needless to say, I started at the bottom of the class in marks & finished the three years at the top.

I moved on to numerous Pentax SLR'S & have collected numerous Pentax, Ricoh & Takumar lenses, however Obbie has spoilt me for life, I CANNOT work with modern day auto focus lenses made in Vietnam or China.......horrible plastic,light weight & with horrible grinding focus mechanisms. Don't believe me?.....stick an old SMC manual focus ALL metal & Baker-light lens on your Pentax.......you will never be the same!

And finally........why, "who needs Nikon or Canon!"?.........Carefully check out the comparisons on the latest DLSRs. The breakdowns all indicate they are adding all sorts of stuff like video capability,angled back screens & all sorts of crap to what, essentially,is a devise meant to capture individual good quality photos. Pentax still has the photographer at heart, worrying more about image & built quality with waterproof metal bodies, built in shake reduction and so on.AND the only manufacturer to allow fitment of all their lenses from the film era.
I don't buy Canons crap about the better EOS system meant no backwards lens capability to improve their quality......they are simply forcing their customers to re-purchase all their lenses!

Now all we need Pentax, is Full Frame!........Asama.


Last edited by Asama; 12-29-2013 at 01:45 PM. Reason: Spelling errors
12-21-2013, 01:49 AM   #2
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Welcome to the forum and thank you very much for that interesting introduction you took the time to write!
12-21-2013, 02:45 AM   #3
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Thank you for sharing!

I do agree pretty much on what you say about 'why do you need Nikon or Canon'.. I've tried to look into the possible system change, but after reading hundreds of reviews, Pentax remain in my heart for all the qualities it can offer versus all the other 'big' brands. I haven't much money to spend. All I need is a stable tool. I wish, Pentax didn't add video to camera at all.

Welcome to the forum.
12-21-2013, 12:34 PM   #4
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Welcome to the forum.

QuoteOriginally posted by Asama Quote
Who needs Nikon or Canon!
I'm afraid I do for a lot of my work, as there are many brand bigots out there and these are often governed by brand ownership being the entry qualification for further work, that's nothing to do with the images you understand.

For my pleasure I shoot Pentax though.

QuoteOriginally posted by Asama Quote
Now all we need Pentax, is Full Frame!
I will welcome that day too.

12-21-2013, 08:36 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asama Quote
And finally........why, "who needs Nikon or Canon!"?.........Carefully check out the comparisons on the latest DLSRs. The breakdowns all indicate they are adding all sorts of stuff like video capability,angled back screens & all sorts of crap to what, essentially,is a devise meant to capture individual good quality photos. Pentax still has the photographer at heart, worrying more amount image & built quality with waterproof metal bodies, built in shake reduction and so on.AND the only manufacturer to allow fitment of all their lenses from the film era. I don't buy Canons crap about the better EOS system meant no backwards lens capability to improve their quality......they are simply forcing their customers to re-purchase all their lenses!
It's actually weather proof not water proof.......................
That's what I'd tell people who keep asking me (how to use their camera) why I choose Pentax....................

QuoteOriginally posted by Asama Quote
Now all we need Pentax, is Full Frame!
I don't see it happening anytime soon............but meh that's just me.......
12-21-2013, 08:37 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by kerrowdown Quote
I'm afraid I do for a lot of my work, as there are many brand bigots out there and these are often governed by brand ownership being the entry qualification for further work, that's nothing to do with the images you understand.
Then my boss fell in love with my K-30...................... working on getting a better lense then my 18-55 WR
12-21-2013, 09:46 PM   #7
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Welcome!
Actually, many of the current Nikon DSLR's will work with most of their old lenses. I totally agree on manual; I shoot both film and digital but I have more fun with film and a manual camera. I shoot both Nikon and Pentax and have one each of their DSLR's since I can't decide....
12-23-2013, 01:47 PM   #8
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Welcome from Iowa!! Who need needs Canikon?? Their stockholders!!! Sorry couldn't resist! Good introduction, you will fit in well here! And yes those classic lenses are special! have fun and post often!
Peace,
Joel

12-23-2013, 08:27 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asama Quote
Hi all my new found friends......Worldwide!

I studied Interior Design in Durban 1979 to 19.81 The course included Photography. My lecturer was the famous Obbie Oberholzer. (Google him!).
We were required to purchase a film era SLR to complete the three year course.Most other students pitched with full Aperture & shutter speed priority OM 10's & equivalent Nikon,Canon,Pentax & Minolta.

My Dad was tight on the bucks, having to put two sons through collage. Obbie advised me to ''go buy the Ricoh KR 5!'' (The cheapest SLR in SA at the time).
In his words,....."the other students will kick your butt for the first six months, but being forced to do everything manually, you will learn the relationship between aperture & shutter speed & the affect these have on exposure, depth of field & so on, MUCH FASTER, & more intimately than anyone else.Needless to say, I started at the bottom of the class in marks & finished the three years at the top.

I moved on to numerous Pentax SLR'S & have collected numerous Pentax, Ricoh & Takumar lenses, however Obbie has spoilt me for life, I CANNOT work with modern day auto focus lenses made in Vietnam or China.......horrible plastic,light weight & with horrible grinding focus mechanisms. Don't believe me?.....stick an old SMC manual focus ALL metal & Baker-light lens on your Pentax.......you will never be the same!

And finally........why, "who needs Nikon or Canon!"?.........Carefully check out the comparisons on the latest DLSRs. The breakdowns all indicate they are adding all sorts of stuff like video capability,angled back screens & all sorts of crap to what, essentially,is a devise meant to capture individual good quality photos. Pentax still has the photographer at heart, worrying more amount image & built quality with waterproof metal bodies, built in shake reduction and so on.AND the only manufacturer to allow fitment of all their lenses from the film era.
I don't buy Canons crap about the better EOS system meant no backwards lens capability to improve their quality......they are simply forcing their customers to re-purchase all their lenses!

Now all we need Pentax, is Full Frame!........Asama.
Welcome to the forum and I enjoyed reading your introduction very much !
12-23-2013, 10:56 PM   #10
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Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the compliments!
Actually I need to set something straight & it was Kerrowdown's comment about Brand bigots that has motivated it.

Firstly let's be honest.....the big five from the sixties & seventies, IE Pentax, Nikon, Canon, Olympus & Minolta all contributed in different ways to the advancement of Photography & specifically the SLR, (Although the German firms of Contax & Lieca started this process).

Theses companies still produce outstanding equipment & I did purchase a film Nikon & three lenses which I still use. The Nikkor 105mm is incredibly sharp for portraiture
I think the biggest problem came in for Pentax when they were purchased by Hoya who lost the plot . They started chasing the bucks by focusing on point & shoots!

Now the point of this mail......If I was a director of Pentax my goals would be the following:

Lead......do not follow! Do this by the following:

1: Firstly get up to date with a full frame DSLR. Pentax you were great at SLR......get back to being at the top!
2: DO NOT follow Nikon & Canon with all the video crap & nice to have trinkets that have nothing to do with still photography.
3: Take the lead Pentax already have with the moisture resistant body & go back to FULL metal! Cover the finger touch sections in nice leather. (Think back to the MX elephant hide finish.....ohhhh so nice!).
4: Install a PROPER METAL shutter speed dial onto of the camera.
5: Go back to providing a proper manual aperture focus ring on the lens.The original "A" setting was & is a great idea for those who want to switch to letting the camera set the aperture. (Lazy bastards!).
Think modern cars! My current Audi tiptronic allows me to drive in auto, but when the mood takes me I can switch to manual & change gears with the paddle shift levers a la formula 1!
6: By all means keep the back jam packed with modern digital info, screens, dials & buttons.....we are after all almost in 2014 & not still in 1970!
7: PLEASE make the Cameras & lenses in Japan & NOT,NOT,NOT,NOT,NOT in China or Vietnam!

Pentax still is the ONLY manufacturer to have full backwards lens capability, & this is a serious trump card!
Pentax was also paid royalties to use their multi coating process to stop lens flare in the seventies by Nikon & Canon.......how many of you reading this know that?
They were also renowned for producing far more compact, lighter camera bodies & much smaller lenses. Go pick up a matching 100mm from Nikon or Canon from the seventies & compare to the SMC M Pentax! .....I should know....I own a Nikon!

Anyway, now I am talking crap! But seriously Pentax Forum bosses, please speak to Pentax, they have millions of older people from the sixties seventies & eighties who grew up taking great photos with Pentax; these people will all come back if Pentax will only get their A into G!

Asama! (And by the way I am not Arab, it's just the beard & the fact I look like him!)
12-23-2013, 11:02 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asama Quote
4: Install a PROPER METAL shutter speed dial onto of the camera. 5: Go back to providing a proper manual aperture focus ring on the lens.The original "A" setting was & is a great idea for those who want to switch to letting the camera set the aperture. (Lazy bastards!). Think modern cars! My current Audi tiptronic allows me to drive in auto, but when the mood takes me I can switch to manual & change gears with the paddle shift levers a la formula 1!
After playing a bit with the Nikon Df: the shutter speed dial and aperture ring controls are nice, but honestly, technology has evolved since then and at the end of the day, e-dials make your life a lot easier. This camera was a nice retro flashback, but I don't see analog controls ever becoming mainstream again. The only exception would be for macro lenses: without an aperture ring they are crippled w/ close-up accessories. Going along your your car analogy: modern DCT's are now not only more convenient than manual transmissions, but also faster to shift when you need the extra performance

Adam
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12-24-2013, 12:19 AM   #12
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You CAN have your cake & eat it!

Hi Adam,

If you are a professional photographer & are doing multiple aperture, shutter speed, iso, white balance & other changes in a hurry.....100% you are right!

If on the other hand you are like 90% of "serious photographers" who use SLR,or Medium format cameras, there is time on hand to set the exposure parameters for each photo, & this, is in fact, part of the pleasure of photography.

I for example HATE setting the aperture via a swivel on the body, there is nothing like feeling the solid "click,click,click" of the aperture ring. It's a tactile experience!

I am sure with modern technology Pentax could add the shutter speed dial with a similar "A" setting which will lock the dial into Auto digital mode, so you could switch back to allowing the camera to change Shutter speeds in AP, SP, USER or any other "priority" setting.

It's back to the Tiptronic gearbox technology.....you buy one car, but have both Auto & Manual in one package.
12-24-2013, 08:09 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asama Quote
& it was Kerrowdown's comment about Brand bigots that has motivated it
Oh dear so its all my fault again then.

Please be aware, the Brand bigots I was referring too, are the picture editors and supposed art directors, who dish out the work to lowly photographers like me.
12-24-2013, 09:51 AM   #14
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Hello Asama

I was going to Sheridian College in 1980 taking a Art based course and the cameras used at the school where the Pentax K-1000. I learned the basics of picture taking from this camera design and it has helped out greatlly when using other camera types. I can get the best out of even a basic point and shoot camera by using it in Progam mode and use the exposure over-ride to control exporsures better. It is not total manual control but having he understanding of what is going is helpful.

I hve my older SMC lenses and I like the feel of the better but I have gotten to like the way things are being done on modern designs. I feel that although the methods of creating an image do change you still end up with he same basic result. There are methods like HDR hat can really help out creating nice looking in difficult lighting conditions. This could be done years ago in the darkroom but the use of the computer has made this process easier to get now-adays.

I bought a Pentax K-m in 2009 and liked its basic, simple design. It has only picture taking mode, no video at all. Ithink that you well find that most curent customs are expecting some of the features you listed as unneeded. I think that a lot of the that are getting into picture taking really are not learning the basics like you or I did. Only a small percentage of people are welling to put the time out for this now. Anyways, welcome to the forum!

QuoteOriginally posted by Asama Quote
Hi all my new found friends......Worldwide!

I studied Interior Design in Durban 1979 to 19.81 The course included Photography. My lecturer was the famous Obbie Oberholzer. (Google him!).
We were required to purchase a film era SLR to complete the three year course.Most other students pitched with full Aperture & shutter speed priority OM 10's & equivalent Nikon,Canon,Pentax & Minolta.

My Dad was tight on the bucks, having to put two sons through collage. Obbie advised me to ''go buy the Ricoh KR 5!'' (The cheapest SLR in SA at the time).
In his words,....."the other students will kick your butt for the first six months, but being forced to do everything manually, you will learn the relationship between aperture & shutter speed & the affect these have on exposure, depth of field & so on, MUCH FASTER, & more intimately than anyone else.Needless to say, I started at the bottom of the class in marks & finished the three years at the top.

I moved on to numerous Pentax SLR'S & have collected numerous Pentax, Ricoh & Takumar lenses, however Obbie has spoilt me for life, I CANNOT work with modern day auto focus lenses made in Vietnam or China.......horrible plastic,light weight & with horrible grinding focus mechanisms. Don't believe me?.....stick an old SMC manual focus ALL metal & Baker-light lens on your Pentax.......you will never be the same!

And finally........why, "who needs Nikon or Canon!"?.........Carefully check out the comparisons on the latest DLSRs. The breakdowns all indicate they are adding all sorts of stuff like video capability,angled back screens & all sorts of crap to what, essentially,is a devise meant to capture individual good quality photos. Pentax still has the photographer at heart, worrying more amount image & built quality with waterproof metal bodies, built in shake reduction and so on.AND the only manufacturer to allow fitment of all their lenses from the film era.
I don't buy Canons crap about the better EOS system meant no backwards lens capability to improve their quality......they are simply forcing their customers to re-purchase all their lenses!

Now all we need Pentax, is Full Frame!........Asama.
12-25-2013, 04:09 AM   #15
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All is forgiven!

Hi Kerrowdown & Stevbike,

My apologies Kerrowdown,I thought you meant Brand Bigots,as in those who doggedly stick to one Brand of anything material, regardless of facts.
I do believe you get these people too. I am not one of those because I love Leica Hasselblad & Nikon too. My Pan X & Nikon take awesome photos too.

Stevbike, I agree, we are both very privileged to have been given the oportunity to study photography & I am always aware that the average Joe Blog often finds things like depth of field & exposure daunting.....it's simply easier to set the camera on Auto!
It's taken me years to force my wife & kids into setting the camera onto Manual & having to think about every shot, but in the end their photos always improve....

And to get back to my thought process on the future of Pentax Adam,.....there is absolutely no reason why Pentax could not go back to full metal construction.
I know the cost will increase, but so will the quality......remember the old days of dropping your K1000 or ME Super, no problem! All you ended up with was a dent in the body...not so today, a heavy fall results in cracked plastic. I think it's also the tactile experience of Metal & Leather for me....And the fact that it speaks of quality.
If they can make entire Audi A8's from aluminium, how about a lowly camera?.
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