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03-24-2014, 05:44 PM   #1
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New and Confused

The first thing that confuses me is the Rules! One ambiguous rule states that: 'Objectionable material is removed immediately, as is copyrighted material once we have been notified of its existence.' We all have copyrights to our own photographs, so does this refer to any forum member posting work that is not their own? I cannot understand this rule in its current form!
The second thing is size of images to prevent horizontal scrolling. I personally do not know of anyone who uses a screen less that around 1680px. Maybe 5 years ago but surely not today?
Then the 2MB rule. I joined this forum amongst other thing to be able to compare my photographs with others, to hopefully receive criticism on it to improve my skills and to help me decide on my next camera purchase. I cannot possibly do this when looking at an image which has been reduced in size by 80%. I would guess that any photographer who can't make their images look good when reduced by this amount would probably be better off taking up painting.
Having been in the computer business for many years I know how photographs can eat up storage space and bandwidth I also am aware of this because I still host half a dozen websites. But I do have a suggestion - why not donate all of the freebies (those suppliers and manufacturers of photographic items who give you 2 GB or more free storage, which most of us never use) to Pentax Forums. I am sure it would reduce strain on servers and costs in new hard drives?

Anyway, I'm not sure how many words I am allowed here so I had better say something about myself. I am 66 years old 'Clickety Click for those Bingo fans amongst you (I personally can't stand the game) ex military and although I have been paid to photograph wedding/parties etc. I am not a professional photographer. I let my daughter have my D700 and looked for something smaller. I tried the NEX7 and found it pretty useless, it seemed to have a mind of its own and more frequently than not it produced images which had sharp edges to the subjects but REALLY lacked definition in the detail. Eventually I tried the Pentax K5 and from there to the Pentax K5 IIs and my next goal is hopefully the K3. The K5 IIs is a phenomenal camera! I don't know what one word I will use to describe the K3, but if it lives up to expectations I will probably have to invent a word for it. To close here are a few likes and dislikes:

Likes:

Pentax K5 IIs.
Photographing almost anything except pain and sorrow.
Children and Animals in equal amounts.
Plus quite a few more.

Dislikes:

My pet dislike are photographs that have been put in a blender such as Photoshop for 5 hours and then posted as a photograph. In my mind it is not a photograph but artwork and should not be judged in ANY competition alongside real photographs. Let their be a separate section or competition for them. Adjusting white balance and the basic exposure and colour balance attributes along with some sharpening is probably fine but surely the best photographers (or luckiest) should win competitions not the best photoshopper?

This is closely followed by the reviewers of Pentax cameras who refer to Pentax cameras as Pro-summer or Enthusiast. What makes a Professional camera? If anyone says 'It must be full frame" then what are all the medium format and large format photographers calling those who ONLY have a full frame? And in 5 years time will those same 'Professional cameras' still be referred to as Professional or will they have dropped off the scale. I remember when David Bailey started using a 5 mega pixel camera; what I can't remember is anyone referring to either him or his camera as unprofessional!

Well that's enough about me. Tomorrow I hope to find out more about you all so till then 'Keep Clicking'.




03-24-2014, 06:01 PM   #2
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Hello Christopher. Welcome to the Forums. That was quite an introduction
03-24-2014, 06:08 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christopher Woodz Quote
The first thing that confuses me is the Rules! One ambiguous rule states that: 'Objectionable material is removed immediately, as is copyrighted material once we have been notified of its existence.' We all have copyrights to our own photographs, so does this refer to any forum member posting work that is not their own? I cannot understand this rule in its current form!

The rule pertains to posting other people's copyrighted material, not your own.

The second thing is size of images to prevent horizontal scrolling. I personally do not know of anyone who uses a screen less that around 1680px. Maybe 5 years ago but surely not today?
Then the 2MB rule. I joined this forum amongst other thing to be able to compare my photographs with others, to hopefully receive criticism on it to improve my skills and to help me decide on my next camera purchase. I cannot possibly do this when looking at an image which has been reduced in size by 80%. I would guess that any photographer who can't make their images look good when reduced by this amount would probably be better off taking up painting.

My current settings are 1920 x 1080, yet people can and do post pictures that exceed these settings and result in scrolling. The 2mb rule is there for this purpose and to help conserve storage space. Even though storage is at an all time low in price, with the number of members we have and the number of posts they make containing pictures, we have to have some constraints. If you wish to compare your photos with others, and the current resolution isn't high enough, perhaps you can exchange email files, DVD's, or even cloud storage. In truth, this is the first time, despite all the users we have, that I can remember anyone citing this as a problem.

Having been in the computer business for many years I know how photographs can eat up storage space and bandwidth I also am aware of this because I still host half a dozen websites. But I do have a suggestion - why not donate all of the freebies (those suppliers and manufacturers of photographic items who give you 2 GB or more free storage, which most of us never use) to Pentax Forums. I am sure it would reduce strain on servers and costs in new hard drives?

Anyway, I'm not sure how many words I am allowed here so I had better say something about myself. I am 66 years old 'Clickety Click for those Bingo fans amongst you (I personally can't stand the game) ex military and although I have been paid to photograph wedding/parties etc. I am not a professional photographer. I let my daughter have my D700 and looked for something smaller. I tried the NEX7 and found it pretty useless, it seemed to have a mind of its own and more frequently than not it produced images which had sharp edges to the subjects but REALLY lacked definition in the detail. Eventually I tried the Pentax K5 and from there to the Pentax K5 IIs and my next goal is hopefully the K3. The K5 IIs is a phenomenal camera! I don't know what one word I will use to describe the K3, but if it lives up to expectations I will probably have to invent a word for it. To close here are a few likes and dislikes:

Likes:

Pentax K5 IIs.
Photographing almost anything except pain and sorrow.
Children and Animals in equal amounts.
Plus quite a few more.

Dislikes:

My pet dislike are photographs that have been put in a blender such as Photoshop for 5 hours and then posted as a photograph. In my mind it is not a photograph but artwork and should not be judged in ANY competition alongside real photographs. Let their be a separate section or competition for them. Adjusting white balance and the basic exposure and colour balance attributes along with some sharpening is probably fine but surely the best photographers (or luckiest) should win competitions not the best photoshopper?

This is closely followed by the reviewers of Pentax cameras who refer to Pentax cameras as Pro-summer or Enthusiast. What makes a Professional camera? If anyone says 'It must be full frame" then what are all the medium format and large format photographers calling those who ONLY have a full frame? And in 5 years time will those same 'Professional cameras' still be referred to as Professional or will they have dropped off the scale. I remember when David Bailey started using a 5 mega pixel camera; what I can't remember is anyone referring to either him or his camera as unprofessional!

Well that's enough about me. Tomorrow I hope to find out more about you all so till then 'Keep Clicking'.


Welcome to the Forum! Look around and enjoy.
03-24-2014, 06:15 PM   #4
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Huh?

Hello Christopher,
Normally I'd say 'Welcome to the forum' but in your case I'll make an exception. Since this site, the rules, posting qualifications, content and quality of photos posted, processing allowed, camera descriptions and pretty much everything else, doesn't live up to your high standards, I doubt you'll be here long.
Thanks for your introduction, hope you find an online site that meets your approval. Or, perhaps you could start one yourself?
Ron

03-24-2014, 06:19 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom S. Quote
Welcome to the Forum! Look around and enjoy.
Thank you for your quick response and for clarifying some of the points. Much appreciated, thank you.
03-24-2014, 06:21 PM   #6
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While we do have limits on filesize and resolution in attachments uploaded directly to posts, we also feature a user photo gallery where there is no resolution limit for your larger files (only a filesize limit, which is more than sufficient for any JPEG in the 2000-px range).

Also, you never have to worry about the filesize when uploading attachments. Even if you upload a 10mb JPEG straight from your camera, our system will scale it for you and preserve all the EXIF.

Personally I believe that 1000-1200px or so is more than enough to appreciate and judge a photograph on a computer screen. Many people also don't want to post anything bigger to avoid having their work stolen.

Adam
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03-24-2014, 06:24 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by rbefly Quote
Hello Christopher,
Normally I'd say 'Welcome to the forum' but in your case I'll make an exception. Since this site, the rules, posting qualifications, content and quality of photos posted, processing allowed, camera descriptions and pretty much everything else, doesn't live up to your high standards, I doubt you'll be here long.
Thanks for your introduction, hope you find an online site that meets your approval. Or, perhaps you could start one yourself?
Ron
Hi Ron. I certainly didn't expect such a caustic reply to my questions. I don't know where you got the idea from that I have high standards. All I did was ask for clarification on several points on offer a solution (in part to the one of storage and costs). You surprise me, although at my age I shouldn't be.
03-24-2014, 06:27 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christopher Woodz Quote
My pet dislike are photographs that have been put in a blender such as Photoshop for 5 hours and then posted as a photograph. In my mind it is not a photograph but artwork and should not be judged in ANY competition alongside real photographs. Let their be a separate section or competition for them. Adjusting white balance and the basic exposure and colour balance attributes along with some sharpening is probably fine but surely the best photographers (or luckiest) should win competitions not the best photoshopper?
Welcome, and good to see opinions expressed. I happen to agree with this one, but it has been the subject of many threads. There is a thread where one can post non PP photos, and get an idea of the actual camera work. I suppose what makes this subject so controversial is the fact that a digital exposure is not an image until it is processed, period. Thus the subject becomes one of degree rather than of principle. The old Kodachrome slide was a rare example of what only the photographer did. His exposure and framing in that cardboard frame remained fixed for all to see. No going back and fixing things.

03-24-2014, 06:32 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
While we do have limits on filesize and resolution in attachments uploaded directly to posts, we also feature a user photo gallery where there is no resolution limit for your larger files (only a filesize limit, which is more than sufficient for any JPEG in the 2000-px range).

Also, you never have to worry about the filesize when uploading attachments. Even if you upload a 10mb JPEG straight from your camera, our system will scale it for you and preserve all the EXIF.

Personally I believe that 1000-1200px or so is more than enough to appreciate and judge a photograph on a computer screen. Many people also don't want to post anything bigger to avoid having their work stolen.
Thank you Adam. I have never been a judge at a photo competition so know precious little about it so I will take you at your word. As to the question of theft, I guess it is a problem so anything I post anywhere I assume could be stolen. I never post anything I really care about losing and as nobody like showing only their weaker images I find that I post very little. But I do enjoy reading critiques and looking at good pictures.
03-24-2014, 06:43 PM - 2 Likes   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christopher Woodz Quote
I cannot possibly do this when looking at an image which has been reduced in size by 80%. I would guess that any photographer who can't make their images look good when reduced by this amount would probably be better off taking up painting.
QuoteOriginally posted by Christopher Woodz Quote
Having been in the computer business for many years I know how photographs can eat up storage space and bandwidth I also am aware of this because I still host half a dozen websites
QuoteOriginally posted by Christopher Woodz Quote
I personally do not know of anyone who uses a screen less that around 1680px. Maybe 5 years ago but surely not today?
QuoteOriginally posted by Christopher Woodz Quote
My pet dislike are photographs that have been put in a blender such as Photoshop for 5 hours and then posted as a photograph. In my mind it is not a photograph but artwork and should not be judged in ANY competition alongside real photographs. Let their be a separate section or competition for them
QuoteOriginally posted by Christopher Woodz Quote
Adjusting white balance and the basic exposure and colour balance attributes along with some sharpening is probably fine but surely the best photographers (or luckiest) should win competitions not the best photoshopper?

Here's just a bit of what I would describe as 'your high standards'. These aren't questions, are they? No, they are complaints and critiques, let's be clear on that. Along the way, you describe how much better the site (which you've just joined and haven't contributed to) could be...if only we would let YOU run it. Your way.
You come on here, swinging a bat at everything you don't like, understand or approve of. But, yeah, I'm caustic.
Like I said, PF obviously doesn't meet your high standards.
The world rarely bends to my needs and I'll bet you're often disappointed by that, too. But, as your initial post indicates clearly, you still try.
Try re-reading your first post objectively. See what pops out at you. Very few actual questions, many opinions, critiques, demands and complaints.
Maybe you feel the need for all these changes here. I don't.
JMO
Ron
03-24-2014, 07:25 PM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christopher Woodz Quote
My pet dislike are photographs that have been put in a blender such as Photoshop for 5 hours and then posted as a photograph. In my mind it is not a photograph but artwork and should not be judged in ANY competition alongside real photographs. Let their be a separate section or competition for them. Adjusting white balance and the basic exposure and colour balance attributes along with some sharpening is probably fine but surely the best photographers (or luckiest) should win competitions not the best photoshopper?
I would also like to ban on camera filters, ND, polarizer and such. Also strobes and flashes should be banned, a true photographer will use natural light. And while we're at it, anyone with a higher resolution sensor or a camera with better IQ than mine should get the boot. Same goes for lenses with low dispersion elements and multi-coating, well any professional lenses. And any pictures taken with any sort of shake reduction or image stabilization.... out!

You use sharpening and white balance... I use curves and saturation which are much closely related to "real" photography... they are processes derived from tweaking the processing of film or qualities relating to different types of films... Sharpening, not so much... this is cheating.

If you want to take the same sunset for weeks in the hopes of getting everything 100% in camera, be my guest, it's your time not mine. But I'd rather get 80% of the shot and getting the other 20% in photoshop and spend my leftover time taking pictures of something else.

Most contests won't allow heavy retouching or compositing. But photography is an art form which evolved, it used to be silver plates, now it's digital. They used to do cross processing and using various recipes for finishing, now we use Lightroom and Photoshop. Even then, some of the most beautiful pictures I have seen were shot many years ago (before the digital age) and were obviously not photoshopped. The Afgan girl comes to mind and lots of Nat Geo pictures from a few years back.

No amount of Photoshop will make a bad picture award winning... If your picture is worth winning, it will, photoshop or not.
03-24-2014, 07:31 PM - 1 Like   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christopher Woodz Quote
Hi Ron. I certainly didn't expect such a caustic reply to my questions. I don't know where you got the idea from that I have high standards. All I did was ask for clarification on several points on offer a solution (in part to the one of storage and costs). You surprise me, although at my age I shouldn't be.
We didn't expect a new member's first post to be, essentially, "Hi, I'm new here. This is what's wrong with your forum and here's what you should do to fix it."
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