KX reflex mirror cracked in shipment??

delphiguru · 11-03-2014, 03:23 PM

I owned a KX 35 mm SLR for about 15 years. I took hundreds, if not thousands of pictures with this camera and never had any trouble with it. It's been to both coasts on vacation, mountain climbing, and bounced around in a backpack for days while hiking.
Problem: I sold this camera body on eBay and the buyer claims that it arrived with a cracked reflex mirror. I placed a cover in the bayonet opening to protect the inside of the camera, then placed the camera body inside a resealable HD sandwich bag, then packed this very carefully, wrapped in 4" of bubble wrap on all sides, then filled the empty space in a USPS Priority box with plastic bags. I wrapped the box with an ample amount of shipping tape. The buyer said the box arrived in good condition and complimented me on the fine packing job. However, he reported that the reflex mirror was cracked when he removed the packing material.
I am posting a single composite pic with three views of my camera. The first (Pic 1.) shows the body as I packed it with the cover in place. Pic 2. shows the condition of the mirror when I packed the camera. Pic 3. shows the mirror cracked in a picture the buyer sent to me. Notice that the mirror retaining clips are not in the same position in pic 2 and pic 3. Could this have happened while the camera was in transit? And what cracked the mirror? Thanks in advance. Sam

Attached Images

MarkJerling · 11-03-2014, 03:45 PM

I cannot imagine that this damage could have been caused "in transit"
If the camera arrived with the body dust cover in place, then nothing could have 'bumped' against the mirror.
I can't see how the mirror could crack without a large amount of force being applied directly to it.

I suggest though that you may need to prove that it left you in sound condition, which may be hard to do. (Will photo exif data back up when these photos were taken?) Was there any insurance with shipping?

AquaDome · 11-03-2014, 03:54 PM

I would refund the buyer's money as soon as they shipped it back on their dime.
Maybe the buyer cracked it. Maybe its not the same camera.

stevebrot · 11-03-2014, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by AquaDome

Maybe its not the same camera.

That is my thought as well. The mount face on the third image has marks that are missing from your photo. There also appears to be something on the focus screen (reflected in mirror) that was not there before.

Steve

MarkJerling · 11-03-2014, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

That is my thought as well. The mount face on the third image has marks that are missing from your photo. There also appears to be something on the focus screen (reflected in mirror) that was not there before.

Steve

Your eyes are sharp, Steve! But, I think you're right.
For the seller: Did you record serial number?

**UncleVanya** · 11-03-2014, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

That is my thought as well. The mount face on the third image has marks that are missing from your photo. There also appears to be something on the focus screen (reflected in mirror) that was not there before.

Steve

The lighting and focus is so different I'm not seeing it. Where are the marks exactly?

In cases like this the buyer generally is going to get their money from Ebay one way or the other. I would get the unit back, ensure it is yours - if it isn't then I would talk to Ebay further. Otherwise refund their money and open a case with the shipping company if this was insured even minimally.

gor80 · 11-04-2014, 12:45 AM

Welcome, this is a very difficult question, if the clips mirrors in a different position, then maybe the buyer is cheating and he used the camera is not correct. Just like that, in itself a mirror can not fall off - this is my opinion!

**Kerrowdown** · 11-04-2014, 02:31 AM

Welcome to the forum.

If it is the same camera...

to get what internal shock transit damage like that, what else is also damaged within.

delphiguru · 11-05-2014, 01:06 AM

I cannot express my appreciation enough for all of you who willingly and so honestly shared your gut feelings about this issue. Your truth and faith have not been unearned. I am eBay "delphiguru". I have had only one eBay user ID in the whole time I have been an eBay member. I am "delphiguru". I have 660+ trans and a 100% rating for the past 14 years. It pains me to have so diligently protected my name and eBay reputation to be do summarily dismissed by this seller grunt. Thank you for speaking up. To validate my identity, you may send me a message via eBay email, if you have an account. You cabn also email directly from this website, as I have enabled all emails to my account.

Sadly, my camera's buyer just may get eBay to pay for his deceit. So sad. So very sad. Apparently, the demons have invaded the this bastion value and trust. I once believed that eBay was a place to trust and do safe business. I am no longer sure that this is true. I fear that eBay no longer shares my sense of honor and integrity and that I may have to leave eBay soon. I fear that, if they read this blog that I might be summarily "DELETED", just as ISIS deletes those it finds of no further value. Sorry, but after the dismal 2014 election returns, I see evil on the rise.

MarkJerling · 11-05-2014, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by delphiguru

I cannot express my appreciation enough for all of you who willingly and so honestly shared your gut feelings about this issue. Your truth and faith have not been unearned. I am eBay "delphiguru". I have had only one eBay user ID in the whole time I have been an eBay member. I am "delphiguru". I have 660+ trans and a 100% rating for the past 14 years. It pains me to have so diligently protected my name and eBay reputation to be do summarily dismissed by this seller grunt. Thank you for speaking up. To validate my identity, you may send me a message via eBay email, if you have an account. You cabn also email directly from this website, as I have enabled all emails to my account.

Sadly, my camera's buyer just may get eBay to pay for his deceit. So sad. So very sad. Apparently, the demons have invaded the this bastion value and trust. I once believed that eBay was a place to trust and do safe business. I am no longer sure that this is true. I fear that eBay no longer shares my sense of honor and integrity and that I may have to leave eBay soon. I fear that, if they read this blog that I might be summarily "DELETED", just as ISIS deletes those it finds of no further value. Sorry, but after the dismal 2014 election returns, I see evil on the rise.

PM me the details and I'll be happy to send you a note.

rrstuff · 11-05-2014, 07:28 PM

I also find it hard to believe it would happen during the shipment. In fact I have never seen this happen to any camera and I dropped one to the ground before.

MarkJerling · 11-05-2014, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by rrstuff

I also find it hard to believe it would happen during the shipment. In fact I have never seen this happen to any camera and I dropped one to the ground before.

This is the seller's posting. He says he shipped it well, and the buyer says it turned up broken. Very strange.

rrstuff · 11-05-2014, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by delphiguru

I cannot express my appreciation enough for all of you who willingly and so honestly shared your gut feelings about this issue. Your truth and faith have not been unearned. I am eBay "delphiguru". I have had only one eBay user ID in the whole time I have been an eBay member. I am "delphiguru". I have 660+ trans and a 100% rating for the past 14 years. It pains me to have so diligently protected my name and eBay reputation to be do summarily dismissed by this seller grunt. Thank you for speaking up. To validate my identity, you may send me a message via eBay email, if you have an account. You cabn also email directly from this website, as I have enabled all emails to my account.

Sadly, my camera's buyer just may get eBay to pay for his deceit. So sad. So very sad. Apparently, the demons have invaded the this bastion value and trust. I once believed that eBay was a place to trust and do safe business. I am no longer sure that this is true. I fear that eBay no longer shares my sense of honor and integrity and that I may have to leave eBay soon. I fear that, if they read this blog that I might be summarily "DELETED", just as ISIS deletes those it finds of no further value. Sorry, but after the dismal 2014 election returns, I see evil on the rise.

Well if they were ok for 14 years, then their failure rate is very low. No system is completely fool proof. If I saw it in your feedback, I would disregard one negative comment among 660 as an outlier and buy from you anyway.

fgaudet · 11-05-2014, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by delphiguru

And what cracked the mirror?

Actuating the mirror while having something inside the mirror box may cause that.

I can't see any possible way this could happen during shipping without major damage to the body. I too am among the people who dropped an SLR more than a few times back in my youth (sometimes from decent heights) and asides from scratches and a few dents never saw anything else damaged.

rrstuff · 11-05-2014, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by fgaudet

Actuating the mirror while having something inside the mirror box may cause that.

I can't see any possible way this could happen during shipping without major damage to the body. I too am among the people who dropped an SLR more than a few times back in my youth (sometimes from decent heights) and asides from scratches and a few dents never saw anything else damaged.

There are a number of lenses that when adapted have a protruding shield of aperture lever. I remember reading about one of the older lenses, where someone filed off aperture shield to avoid this kind mirror crack. I wonder if O.S. could track the user's buying/selling on ebay and see if he purchased such a lens?

11-03-2014, 03:23 PM	#1
delphiguru New Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: WA 98002 USA Posts: 5	KX reflex mirror cracked in shipment?? I owned a KX 35 mm SLR for about 15 years. I took hundreds, if not thousands of pictures with this camera and never had any trouble with it. It's been to both coasts on vacation, mountain climbing, and bounced around in a backpack for days while hiking. Problem: I sold this camera body on eBay and the buyer claims that it arrived with a cracked reflex mirror. I placed a cover in the bayonet opening to protect the inside of the camera, then placed the camera body inside a resealable HD sandwich bag, then packed this very carefully, wrapped in 4" of bubble wrap on all sides, then filled the empty space in a USPS Priority box with plastic bags. I wrapped the box with an ample amount of shipping tape. The buyer said the box arrived in good condition and complimented me on the fine packing job. However, he reported that the reflex mirror was cracked when he removed the packing material. I am posting a single composite pic with three views of my camera. The first (Pic 1.) shows the body as I packed it with the cover in place. Pic 2. shows the condition of the mirror when I packed the camera. Pic 3. shows the mirror cracked in a picture the buyer sent to me. Notice that the mirror retaining clips are not in the same position in pic 2 and pic 3. Could this have happened while the camera was in transit? And what cracked the mirror? Thanks in advance. Sam Attached Images

11-05-2014, 01:06 AM	#9
delphiguru New Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: WA 98002 USA Posts: 5 Original Poster	Thanks to all of you who replid. My sanity is renewed. I cannot express my appreciation enough for all of you who willingly and so honestly shared your gut feelings about this issue. Your truth and faith have not been unearned. I am eBay "delphiguru". I have had only one eBay user ID in the whole time I have been an eBay member. I am "delphiguru". I have 660+ trans and a 100% rating for the past 14 years. It pains me to have so diligently protected my name and eBay reputation to be do summarily dismissed by this seller grunt. Thank you for speaking up. To validate my identity, you may send me a message via eBay email, if you have an account. You cabn also email directly from this website, as I have enabled all emails to my account. Sadly, my camera's buyer just may get eBay to pay for his deceit. So sad. So very sad. Apparently, the demons have invaded the this bastion value and trust. I once believed that eBay was a place to trust and do safe business. I am no longer sure that this is true. I fear that eBay no longer shares my sense of honor and integrity and that I may have to leave eBay soon. I fear that, if they read this blog that I might be summarily "DELETED", just as ISIS deletes those it finds of no further value. Sorry, but after the dismal 2014 election returns, I see evil on the rise.

11-05-2014, 07:28 PM	#11
rrstuff Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Pasadena, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,126	I also find it hard to believe it would happen during the shipment. In fact I have never seen this happen to any camera and I dropped one to the ground before. Last edited by rrstuff; 11-05-2014 at 07:30 PM. Reason: nevermind, read the whole story.

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11-03-2014, 03:45 PM	#2
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,421	I cannot imagine that this damage could have been caused "in transit" If the camera arrived with the body dust cover in place, then nothing could have 'bumped' against the mirror. I can't see how the mirror could crack without a large amount of force being applied directly to it. I suggest though that you may need to prove that it left you in sound condition, which may be hard to do. (Will photo exif data back up when these photos were taken?) Was there any insurance with shipping?

11-03-2014, 03:54 PM	#3
AquaDome Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: New Carlisle, IN Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,475	I would refund the buyer's money as soon as they shipped it back on their dime. Maybe the buyer cracked it. Maybe its not the same camera.

11-03-2014, 04:03 PM	#4
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by AquaDome Maybe its not the same camera. That is my thought as well. The mount face on the third image has marks that are missing from your photo. There also appears to be something on the focus screen (reflected in mirror) that was not there before. Steve

11-03-2014, 04:07 PM	#5
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,421	Originally posted by stevebrot That is my thought as well. The mount face on the third image has marks that are missing from your photo. There also appears to be something on the focus screen (reflected in mirror) that was not there before. Steve Your eyes are sharp, Steve! But, I think you're right. For the seller: Did you record serial number?

11-03-2014, 04:24 PM	#6
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,452	Originally posted by stevebrot That is my thought as well. The mount face on the third image has marks that are missing from your photo. There also appears to be something on the focus screen (reflected in mirror) that was not there before. Steve The lighting and focus is so different I'm not seeing it. Where are the marks exactly? In cases like this the buyer generally is going to get their money from Ebay one way or the other. I would get the unit back, ensure it is yours - if it isn't then I would talk to Ebay further. Otherwise refund their money and open a case with the shipping company if this was insured even minimally.

11-04-2014, 12:45 AM	#7
gor80 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Балашиха Photos: Albums Posts: 595	Welcome, this is a very difficult question, if the clips mirrors in a different position, then maybe the buyer is cheating and he used the camera is not correct. Just like that, in itself a mirror can not fall off - this is my opinion!

11-04-2014, 02:31 AM	#8
Kerrowdown PEG Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highlands of Scotland... "Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand" - William Blake Photos: Gallery Posts: 57,860	Welcome to the forum. If it is the same camera... to get what internal shock transit damage like that, what else is also damaged within.

11-05-2014, 06:48 PM	#10
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,421	Originally posted by delphiguru I cannot express my appreciation enough for all of you who willingly and so honestly shared your gut feelings about this issue. Your truth and faith have not been unearned. I am eBay "delphiguru". I have had only one eBay user ID in the whole time I have been an eBay member. I am "delphiguru". I have 660+ trans and a 100% rating for the past 14 years. It pains me to have so diligently protected my name and eBay reputation to be do summarily dismissed by this seller grunt. Thank you for speaking up. To validate my identity, you may send me a message via eBay email, if you have an account. You cabn also email directly from this website, as I have enabled all emails to my account. Sadly, my camera's buyer just may get eBay to pay for his deceit. So sad. So very sad. Apparently, the demons have invaded the this bastion value and trust. I once believed that eBay was a place to trust and do safe business. I am no longer sure that this is true. I fear that eBay no longer shares my sense of honor and integrity and that I may have to leave eBay soon. I fear that, if they read this blog that I might be summarily "DELETED", just as ISIS deletes those it finds of no further value. Sorry, but after the dismal 2014 election returns, I see evil on the rise. PM me the details and I'll be happy to send you a note.

11-05-2014, 07:31 PM	#12
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,421	Originally posted by rrstuff I also find it hard to believe it would happen during the shipment. In fact I have never seen this happen to any camera and I dropped one to the ground before. This is the seller's posting. He says he shipped it well, and the buyer says it turned up broken. Very strange.

11-05-2014, 07:32 PM	#13
rrstuff Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Pasadena, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,126	Originally posted by delphiguru I cannot express my appreciation enough for all of you who willingly and so honestly shared your gut feelings about this issue. Your truth and faith have not been unearned. I am eBay "delphiguru". I have had only one eBay user ID in the whole time I have been an eBay member. I am "delphiguru". I have 660+ trans and a 100% rating for the past 14 years. It pains me to have so diligently protected my name and eBay reputation to be do summarily dismissed by this seller grunt. Thank you for speaking up. To validate my identity, you may send me a message via eBay email, if you have an account. You cabn also email directly from this website, as I have enabled all emails to my account. Sadly, my camera's buyer just may get eBay to pay for his deceit. So sad. So very sad. Apparently, the demons have invaded the this bastion value and trust. I once believed that eBay was a place to trust and do safe business. I am no longer sure that this is true. I fear that eBay no longer shares my sense of honor and integrity and that I may have to leave eBay soon. I fear that, if they read this blog that I might be summarily "DELETED", just as ISIS deletes those it finds of no further value. Sorry, but after the dismal 2014 election returns, I see evil on the rise. Well if they were ok for 14 years, then their failure rate is very low. No system is completely fool proof. If I saw it in your feedback, I would disregard one negative comment among 660 as an outlier and buy from you anyway.

11-05-2014, 07:41 PM	#14
fgaudet Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Ontario Posts: 726	Originally posted by delphiguru And what cracked the mirror? Actuating the mirror while having something inside the mirror box may cause that. I can't see any possible way this could happen during shipping without major damage to the body. I too am among the people who dropped an SLR more than a few times back in my youth (sometimes from decent heights) and asides from scratches and a few dents never saw anything else damaged.

11-05-2014, 07:44 PM	#15
rrstuff Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Pasadena, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,126	Originally posted by fgaudet Actuating the mirror while having something inside the mirror box may cause that. I can't see any possible way this could happen during shipping without major damage to the body. I too am among the people who dropped an SLR more than a few times back in my youth (sometimes from decent heights) and asides from scratches and a few dents never saw anything else damaged. There are a number of lenses that when adapted have a protruding shield of aperture lever. I remember reading about one of the older lenses, where someone filed off aperture shield to avoid this kind mirror crack. I wonder if O.S. could track the user's buying/selling on ebay and see if he purchased such a lens?