Hi there, Lucas from Poland, P67

MorgothV8 · 07-13-2015, 01:38 AM

Hi, I'm Lucas.
I live in Poland.
I'm 33 yo, married, two children.
I love polar areas and of course photography....
I just bought Pentax camera:
Pentax 67
SMC Takumar 105/2.4

Did first 3 rolls of Kodat TMax 100.
I hope I will like this beast, also need to find some "good" B&W film in 400-800 ISO range.
I know there are Ilfords Deltas 3200, having ISO 1000, but I found them too grainy.

I want to find best possible ISO 400-800 B&W that have quality near ISO 100 TMax - my current favorite, but too slow for indoor portraits - which I want to try with 1/60s and f=2,4.

ppohja · 07-13-2015, 03:59 AM

Congrats on your purchase! I've had the P67 for few months now and have done some 10 rolls so far, about half of them in Velvia slides and the other various kinds of film. Handheld work seems to be possible, but using the tripod more would probably improve the overall quality.

My old pal said that with his 6x7 he was able to get relatively good results in handheld work with fast (<1/60) and slow (>1/15) times. For the times in between, it seemed that the mirror slap (ka-tsoongh) and/or shutter destabilised the thing too much. I've been told that the P67 is more civilized in this sense. I've been thinking of running some tests for sharpness between tripodized and handheld pics between the 67 and the LX, which is my camera body to spotmatic. For mitigating the variance, I'll be needing at least some 3 or 4 repetitions at each setting. Not a problem with 35mm film, but it's getting different with the 120 film. So for now I'll concentrate to to get initial results with my normal 90mm lens.

I'm planning to use T-Max 400 for my experiment. Maybe it would suit your case as well?

Btw, welcome to the forums!

MorgothV8 · 07-13-2015, 04:11 AM

I was thinking of TMax 400 too, but never used it.
I was dissapointed with Ilford 3200, really happy with TMax 100.
Also used Velvia 50 & 100 but on Fuji GSW 690 III (my second MF).
Fuji was superb on Velvia, P67 - don't know yet.

johnsey · 07-13-2015, 05:45 AM

Originally posted by MorgothV8

Hi, I'm Lucas.
I live in Poland.
I'm 33 yo, married, two children.
I love polar areas and of course photography....
I just bought Pentax camera:
Pentax 67
SMC Takumar 105/2.4

Did first 3 rolls of Kodat TMax 100.
I hope I will like this beast, also need to find some "good" B&W film in 400-800 ISO range.
I know there are Ilfords Deltas 3200, having ISO 1000, but I found them too grainy.

I want to find best possible ISO 400-800 B&W that have quality near ISO 100 TMax - my current favorite, but too slow for indoor portraits - which I want to try with 1/60s and f=2,4.

HI MorgothV8,

You mentioned Ilford Delta 3200 having an ISO of 1000, the number on the film is the ISO so it would be 3200 not 1000. Also in regards to grain, by its nature you will see more grain the higher the film speed.
Film speed is its sensitivity to light, the larger numbers are more sensitive to light because they use a larger film grain to expose the film faster. You will notice film speeds double their sensitivity to light as they increase the grain size. (100, 200 400 etc..)
You cant really go wrong with trying out a variety of 400 speed films, and sampling their characteristics. To name a few other common ones you can try Tri-X, Delta 400, HP5 Plus.

Last edited by johnsey; 07-13-2015 at 06:01 AM.

MorgothV8 · 07-13-2015, 07:12 AM

Will try TMax 400, already bought 10 rolls on our local polish internet shop.
Now I will finish my TMax 100, then try 2-3 Ilfords 3200 (left) and see what happens.
And about ISO..... Ilford 3200 is ISO 1000, but EI 3200 AFAIK, anyway its true is is nowhere near 3200.

And of course higher ISO = bigger grain, but also 6x7 film size is 4x area of "full frame"

johnsey · 07-13-2015, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by MorgothV8

I was thinking of TMax 400 too, but never used it.
I was dissapointed with Ilford 3200, really happy with TMax 100.
Also used Velvia 50 & 100 but on Fuji GSW 690 III (my second MF).
Fuji was superb on Velvia, P67 - don't know yet.

Velvia is superb properly exposed

I wouldn't say that you don't know about the P67, the camera isn't going to change the film characteristics.

---------- Post added 07-13-2015 at 11:47 AM ----------

Your absolutely right that the technical spec of the film is 1000 ISO. I jumped to the conclusion that you thought the film could be purchased in more than one ISO. Yes film with a EI of say 3200 can technically be between 800 and 1250 depending on the brand. These films are designed to yield good results when being pushed to high ISOs, which is why I would purchase them. And why the advertise the high exposure on the box.

If you need to shoot at 1600 or 3200 maybe you should try Neopan 1600 and expose according at the desired ISO. It may yield more pleasing results for you at those speeds if you are not a fan of the Ilford. I also recommend Tri X over Tmax in regards to grain.

Regarding the larger negative: Your grain will still be the same on the larger film size. But yes a print made from 35mm film would be enlarged more than 120 film to print at the same size so the grain would be probably more noticeable in a same size print from the smaller negative, especially in a larger print.

Just curious are you developing yourself, enlarger printing or film scanning? These will also have some impact on the results.

MorgothV8 · 07-13-2015, 10:37 AM

For now I'm using lab in my city.
There are plans to try to do it myself (of course only B&W)
Will stay with TMax 400 now, maybe one roll I'll expose at ISO 800 and see what happens.
Why...?
Just becaus eit seems I'm missing only one stop to be able to handheld shots in my interiors.
Absolute max is f=2,4 and t=1/60, and I'm about 1-1,5 stops from correct exposure (accoriding to P67 TTL prism)

johnsey · 07-13-2015, 12:31 PM

Yup pushing the 400 a stop or 2 may be your best bet, that way you can stock up on 400 and just push a roll when you need to shoot without flash. If you regularly do portraiture indoors you should definitely invest use an off camera flash and pick up the 165mm LS lens so you can use a cable & a sync speed faster the 1/30th. You get the control of the light you want as well a a shutter fast enough to go hand held. There is also a 90mm LS lens that is a bit on the softer side but may be just what your looking for if using it for portraiture.

MorgothV8 · 07-13-2015, 12:55 PM

To be honest, I'm rather amateur, just trying what current "hardware" is capable of.
I also have Nikon F4 with 85/1.4 AF-D - that one is lot faster, and also with SB-800. That beast have AF, AE so......

I don't have any flash for P67, I don't even know what should be used here, but I think I'll skip flash on this particular body, or (in distant future) use it with flash and leaf shuter lens......
Maybe I'll consider buying SMC 165/2.8 - don'tknow yet.

First - I need to shoot few rolls and see results.

**Kerrowdown** · 07-13-2015, 05:02 PM

Welcome to the forum, enjoy both it and your photography in equal amounts.

MorgothV8 · 07-14-2015, 02:35 AM

I also have option to Buy S-M-C Takumar 55/3.5 cheap (? about $150) - is it worth it?
I've heard mixed opinions.
I don't care it is huge and heavy (that will even add stablity to camera).
I'm concerning opinion that it is not that shart at f=3,5.
And I would like to use it handheld, indoors so probably 1/30s and f=2,4 maybe even 1/15...... does it have sense? Or skip that lens?

---------- Post added 07-14-15 at 02:37 AM ----------

Hmm I cannot edit post, of course I mean "sharp" not shart and f=3,5 not 2,4.....

Jonathan Mac · 07-14-2015, 03:14 AM

T-Max 400 is very good. It's generally easier to find and cheaper than Tri-X, but I like both of those. I've seen very nice results from Ilford Delta 400 but I haven't tried it myself.

johnsey · 07-14-2015, 05:32 AM

Many of us have the F4 in either 45mm or 55mm, the prices on those have also dropped significantly over the years, for a lil extra money i'd recommend those over that one.. Maybe someone on here has owned the 3.5 and can speak to it. The larger draw backs I know of is that it seemed rather flare prone, and it uses a 100mm filter thread so you would end up purchasing expensive filters for just that lens as i doubt you have anything with that large of thread.

I think you will find plenty of options for that lens via online auction between 100-150 bucks so the price is ok but can be beat.

MorgothV8 · 07-14-2015, 05:54 AM

OK, it have one more advantage:
It's available almost locally, so no shipping cost, no taxes etc etc.
Just local shipping for about $6-$7,maybe I can also ask for some lower price.... I saw 55/4 in similar price but in Japan, in that cases shipping will be a lot, also import taxes, VAT.....
I've asked for more photos of that lens and asked if both rear and front caps are present.
How about using it without filter at all?
I'm using Nikkor 14-24/2.8 all the time on D3/F4 without lens cap - because there is no cap for that beast (I mean standard cap)

johnsey · 07-14-2015, 06:51 AM

Right if you have import taxes that you incur that would also have an impact. Most of the listings online are japan/us and many had free shipping. You can point out to them the going rate is not quite what they are charging and see if they will flex a bit. Surely it will work without filter, just something to consider when purchasing lenses. Screw mount filters are commonly found up to 82mm and even at that size your looking at a $200 polarizer filter.

07-13-2015, 01:38 AM	#1
MorgothV8 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Minsk Mazowiecki Posts: 49	Hi there, Lucas from Poland, P67 Hi, I'm Lucas. I live in Poland. I'm 33 yo, married, two children. I love polar areas and of course photography.... I just bought Pentax camera: Pentax 67 SMC Takumar 105/2.4 Did first 3 rolls of Kodat TMax 100. I hope I will like this beast, also need to find some "good" B&W film in 400-800 ISO range. I know there are Ilfords Deltas 3200, having ISO 1000, but I found them too grainy. I want to find best possible ISO 400-800 B&W that have quality near ISO 100 TMax - my current favorite, but too slow for indoor portraits - which I want to try with 1/60s and f=2,4.

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07-13-2015, 03:59 AM	#2
ppohja Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 194	Congrats on your purchase! I've had the P67 for few months now and have done some 10 rolls so far, about half of them in Velvia slides and the other various kinds of film. Handheld work seems to be possible, but using the tripod more would probably improve the overall quality. My old pal said that with his 6x7 he was able to get relatively good results in handheld work with fast (<1/60) and slow (>1/15) times. For the times in between, it seemed that the mirror slap (ka-tsoongh) and/or shutter destabilised the thing too much. I've been told that the P67 is more civilized in this sense. I've been thinking of running some tests for sharpness between tripodized and handheld pics between the 67 and the LX, which is my camera body to spotmatic. For mitigating the variance, I'll be needing at least some 3 or 4 repetitions at each setting. Not a problem with 35mm film, but it's getting different with the 120 film. So for now I'll concentrate to to get initial results with my normal 90mm lens. I'm planning to use T-Max 400 for my experiment. Maybe it would suit your case as well? Btw, welcome to the forums!

07-13-2015, 04:11 AM	#3
MorgothV8 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Minsk Mazowiecki Posts: 49 Original Poster	I was thinking of TMax 400 too, but never used it. I was dissapointed with Ilford 3200, really happy with TMax 100. Also used Velvia 50 & 100 but on Fuji GSW 690 III (my second MF). Fuji was superb on Velvia, P67 - don't know yet.

07-13-2015, 05:45 AM	#4
johnsey Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Fargo, ND Posts: 113	Originally posted by MorgothV8 Hi, I'm Lucas. I live in Poland. I'm 33 yo, married, two children. I love polar areas and of course photography.... I just bought Pentax camera: Pentax 67 SMC Takumar 105/2.4 Did first 3 rolls of Kodat TMax 100. I hope I will like this beast, also need to find some "good" B&W film in 400-800 ISO range. I know there are Ilfords Deltas 3200, having ISO 1000, but I found them too grainy. I want to find best possible ISO 400-800 B&W that have quality near ISO 100 TMax - my current favorite, but too slow for indoor portraits - which I want to try with 1/60s and f=2,4. HI MorgothV8, You mentioned Ilford Delta 3200 having an ISO of 1000, the number on the film is the ISO so it would be 3200 not 1000. Also in regards to grain, by its nature you will see more grain the higher the film speed. Film speed is its sensitivity to light, the larger numbers are more sensitive to light because they use a larger film grain to expose the film faster. You will notice film speeds double their sensitivity to light as they increase the grain size. (100, 200 400 etc..) You cant really go wrong with trying out a variety of 400 speed films, and sampling their characteristics. To name a few other common ones you can try Tri-X, Delta 400, HP5 Plus. Last edited by johnsey; 07-13-2015 at 06:01 AM.

07-13-2015, 07:12 AM	#5
MorgothV8 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Minsk Mazowiecki Posts: 49 Original Poster	Will try TMax 400, already bought 10 rolls on our local polish internet shop. Now I will finish my TMax 100, then try 2-3 Ilfords 3200 (left) and see what happens. And about ISO..... Ilford 3200 is ISO 1000, but EI 3200 AFAIK, anyway its true is is nowhere near 3200. And of course higher ISO = bigger grain, but also 6x7 film size is 4x area of "full frame"

07-13-2015, 09:44 AM	#6
johnsey Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Fargo, ND Posts: 113	Originally posted by MorgothV8 I was thinking of TMax 400 too, but never used it. I was dissapointed with Ilford 3200, really happy with TMax 100. Also used Velvia 50 & 100 but on Fuji GSW 690 III (my second MF). Fuji was superb on Velvia, P67 - don't know yet. Velvia is superb properly exposed I wouldn't say that you don't know about the P67, the camera isn't going to change the film characteristics. ---------- Post added 07-13-2015 at 11:47 AM ---------- Your absolutely right that the technical spec of the film is 1000 ISO. I jumped to the conclusion that you thought the film could be purchased in more than one ISO. Yes film with a EI of say 3200 can technically be between 800 and 1250 depending on the brand. These films are designed to yield good results when being pushed to high ISOs, which is why I would purchase them. And why the advertise the high exposure on the box. If you need to shoot at 1600 or 3200 maybe you should try Neopan 1600 and expose according at the desired ISO. It may yield more pleasing results for you at those speeds if you are not a fan of the Ilford. I also recommend Tri X over Tmax in regards to grain. Regarding the larger negative: Your grain will still be the same on the larger film size. But yes a print made from 35mm film would be enlarged more than 120 film to print at the same size so the grain would be probably more noticeable in a same size print from the smaller negative, especially in a larger print. Just curious are you developing yourself, enlarger printing or film scanning? These will also have some impact on the results.

07-13-2015, 10:37 AM	#7
MorgothV8 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Minsk Mazowiecki Posts: 49 Original Poster	For now I'm using lab in my city. There are plans to try to do it myself (of course only B&W) Will stay with TMax 400 now, maybe one roll I'll expose at ISO 800 and see what happens. Why...? Just becaus eit seems I'm missing only one stop to be able to handheld shots in my interiors. Absolute max is f=2,4 and t=1/60, and I'm about 1-1,5 stops from correct exposure (accoriding to P67 TTL prism)

07-13-2015, 12:31 PM	#8
johnsey Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Fargo, ND Posts: 113	Yup pushing the 400 a stop or 2 may be your best bet, that way you can stock up on 400 and just push a roll when you need to shoot without flash. If you regularly do portraiture indoors you should definitely invest use an off camera flash and pick up the 165mm LS lens so you can use a cable & a sync speed faster the 1/30th. You get the control of the light you want as well a a shutter fast enough to go hand held. There is also a 90mm LS lens that is a bit on the softer side but may be just what your looking for if using it for portraiture.

07-13-2015, 12:55 PM	#9
MorgothV8 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Minsk Mazowiecki Posts: 49 Original Poster	To be honest, I'm rather amateur, just trying what current "hardware" is capable of. I also have Nikon F4 with 85/1.4 AF-D - that one is lot faster, and also with SB-800. That beast have AF, AE so...... I don't have any flash for P67, I don't even know what should be used here, but I think I'll skip flash on this particular body, or (in distant future) use it with flash and leaf shuter lens...... Maybe I'll consider buying SMC 165/2.8 - don'tknow yet. First - I need to shoot few rolls and see results.

07-13-2015, 05:02 PM	#10
Kerrowdown PEG Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highlands of Scotland... "Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand" - William Blake Photos: Gallery Posts: 57,833	Welcome to the forum, enjoy both it and your photography in equal amounts.

07-14-2015, 02:35 AM	#11
MorgothV8 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Minsk Mazowiecki Posts: 49 Original Poster	I also have option to Buy S-M-C Takumar 55/3.5 cheap (? about $150) - is it worth it? I've heard mixed opinions. I don't care it is huge and heavy (that will even add stablity to camera). I'm concerning opinion that it is not that shart at f=3,5. And I would like to use it handheld, indoors so probably 1/30s and f=2,4 maybe even 1/15...... does it have sense? Or skip that lens? ---------- Post added 07-14-15 at 02:37 AM ---------- Hmm I cannot edit post, of course I mean "sharp" not shart and f=3,5 not 2,4.....

07-14-2015, 03:14 AM	#12
Jonathan Mac Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 10,902	T-Max 400 is very good. It's generally easier to find and cheaper than Tri-X, but I like both of those. I've seen very nice results from Ilford Delta 400 but I haven't tried it myself.

07-14-2015, 05:32 AM	#13
johnsey Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Fargo, ND Posts: 113	Many of us have the F4 in either 45mm or 55mm, the prices on those have also dropped significantly over the years, for a lil extra money i'd recommend those over that one.. Maybe someone on here has owned the 3.5 and can speak to it. The larger draw backs I know of is that it seemed rather flare prone, and it uses a 100mm filter thread so you would end up purchasing expensive filters for just that lens as i doubt you have anything with that large of thread. I think you will find plenty of options for that lens via online auction between 100-150 bucks so the price is ok but can be beat.

07-14-2015, 05:54 AM	#14
MorgothV8 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Minsk Mazowiecki Posts: 49 Original Poster	OK, it have one more advantage: It's available almost locally, so no shipping cost, no taxes etc etc. Just local shipping for about $6-$7,maybe I can also ask for some lower price.... I saw 55/4 in similar price but in Japan, in that cases shipping will be a lot, also import taxes, VAT..... I've asked for more photos of that lens and asked if both rear and front caps are present. How about using it without filter at all? I'm using Nikkor 14-24/2.8 all the time on D3/F4 without lens cap - because there is no cap for that beast (I mean standard cap)

07-14-2015, 06:51 AM	#15
johnsey Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Fargo, ND Posts: 113	Right if you have import taxes that you incur that would also have an impact. Most of the listings online are japan/us and many had free shipping. You can point out to them the going rate is not quite what they are charging and see if they will flex a bit. Surely it will work without filter, just something to consider when purchasing lenses. Screw mount filters are commonly found up to 82mm and even at that size your looking at a $200 polarizer filter.