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03-07-2016, 07:04 PM   #1
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Hello from Edmonton

Hi,

I've recently joined having stumbled upon a demo of the Pentax K1 in a local store where I got to try my hands on one for a good hour. In many ways it felt like it offered sort of a hyrbid solution to both OVF and EVF in that you have an OVF but autofocus through the rear screen evf was very fast and accurate.

I was very very impressed and from a first hands on impression, it's probably the best FF camera in terms of photographic tool, I've tried recently.

Currently I'm a Sony mirrorless shooter (A7ii, A7s) with lots of glass, but before I put down my own money on the K1 and invest in an entirely new system I was hoping to talk to you fine people to find out what are the gotchas that I may not have considered. What lenses you would recommend etc...

For what it's worth I got to try a hand held motion comp sensor shift shot on my buddy in the store and the thing worked perfectly!

Anyway nice to meet you all.

Tom.

03-07-2016, 07:25 PM   #2
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Welcome to the forum Tom! We have some A7 shooters here. Looking forward to seeing some of your images.
03-07-2016, 07:46 PM   #3
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Welcome to the forum, hope you enjoy your stay.

The usual would be the 31 ltd, 43 ltd and 77 ltd, the three amigos.
Then there are the new zooms 15-30, 24 -70 and 70-200, all coming out especially for the K-1. Also recently released the D FA 150-450. These lenses all have ring drives and are the most modern and fastest focusing of the internal electric motor type,

The biggest thing you have to realize is, it's designed to be a field camera. Not the fastest AF, not the highest frame rate, We can't begin to discuss lenses for it, there is huge library of user reviews for huge number of lenses.

Pentax FA Prime Lenses - Reviews and Specifications - SLR and Interchangeable Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database
Pentax FA Zoom Lenses - Reviews and Specifications - SLR and Interchangeable Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

Just to make things confusing, many of the DA lenses are K-1 compatible, but you'll have to do some research to figure out which ones. As general rule DA prime lenses under 35mm are not FF compatible but those 35mm and over are. Most zooms will work only in crop mode.
Pentax DA Prime Lenses - Reviews and Specifications - SLR and Interchangeable Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

But there is just tons of screw drive legacy glass which will work with the camera.

If you look on this page.... under FA zooms and primes, anything with star is pro quality like the FA*24mm ƒ2. no star means consumer, enthusiast quality, but many of them are still very good. I tend to look for lenses rated 9.5 or better, but anything over 9 is good. The FA lenses are all film era screw drive lenses, and comparatively noisy. But many are excellent lenses.

When you are done with the FAs, go on to the Fs and As, once you are into the As you are into manual focus but auto -apeture. Ms and Ks are not auto anything, but are quite useable with the green button. SMC takamurs (m34) are useable with an adapter.

That should be enough to get you started.
03-07-2016, 07:51 PM   #4
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Welcome to the forum.

Was that at McBain s?

03-07-2016, 10:55 PM   #5
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Hi Tom. Welcome aboard the forum.
03-08-2016, 12:31 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Welcome to the forum, hope you enjoy your stay.

The usual would be the 31 ltd, 43 ltd and 77 ltd, the three amigos.
Then there are the new zooms 15-30, 24 -70 and 70-200, all coming out especially for the K-1. Also recently released the D FA 150-450. These lenses all have ring drives and are the most modern and fastest focusing of the internal electric motor type,

The biggest thing you have to realize is, it's designed to be a field camera. Not the fastest AF, not the highest frame rate, We can't begin to discuss lenses for it, there is huge library of user reviews for huge number of lenses.

Pentax FA Prime Lenses - Reviews and Specifications - SLR and Interchangeable Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database
Pentax FA Zoom Lenses - Reviews and Specifications - SLR and Interchangeable Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

Just to make things confusing, many of the DA lenses are K-1 compatible, but you'll have to do some research to figure out which ones. As general rule DA prime lenses under 35mm are not FF compatible but those 35mm and over are. Most zooms will work only in crop mode.
Pentax DA Prime Lenses - Reviews and Specifications - SLR and Interchangeable Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

But there is just tons of screw drive legacy glass which will work with the camera.

If you look on this page.... under FA zooms and primes, anything with star is pro quality like the FA*24mm 2. no star means consumer, enthusiast quality, but many of them are still very good. I tend to look for lenses rated 9.5 or better, but anything over 9 is good. The FA lenses are all film era screw drive lenses, and comparatively noisy. But many are excellent lenses.

When you are done with the FAs, go on to the Fs and As, once you are into the As you are into manual focus but auto -apeture. Ms and Ks are not auto anything, but are quite useable with the green button. SMC takamurs (m34) are useable with an adapter.

That should be enough to get you started.
I had been considering adding to my existing A7 collection with an A7rii for landscape and truthfully had never considered Pentax. The lens lineup looks really really nice.
To another posters question, yes I tried the K1 at a McBain demo on Friday last.
Their Ricoh rep showed me some beautiful limited lenses that I had never handled before. The 77 was absolutely beautiful to feel and use. I particularly liked that the manual focus mechanism on those lenses was physical and not fly by wire. Something that I miss on the Sony side outside of the Loxia. The build feel of the 77 reminded me greatly of a Summicron 35 F2 in terms of metal feel, pull out lens hood etc...
With respect to my shooting style, I don't think any one style fits to be honest. I'm looking at the K1 as a possible all round workhorse (and also to have a different shooting experience to an EVF (which I also enjoy, but i'd like variety ). Primarily I'm interested in the pixelshift for high res landscapes for large print. However the motion comp didn't look to have any problem in the shop with handheld portraiture so that may also likely be an option. Portraiture, good skin tones and flexible files are very important to me. I like the idea of being able to work in any condition - I had to call off an outdoor shoot last year because of a downpour that I didn't trust my Sony in.

Primarily I shoot portraiture/fashion, and have sold some wildlife/nature/landscape work to help pay for some of my gear I've shot one or two weddings previously and I've been asked to shoot a number of weddings over this coming Summer which is somewhat driving my consideration. I want my next camera to serve as a general do-it-all workhorse.
It **should** have image quality in regular shooting mode at the very least similar to the D810 if not better as the Ricoh rep was saying it uses an enhanced version of that sensor. Sensor shift with motion comp has probably extended it's shooting envelope - I got to try hand held portrait and it actually worked really well for the few shots that I got to try.

I'm surprised at your comment though about slow focus ... I've tried the K1 with the 77 limited in store and in bad ISO3200 lighting and it was IMHO at worst a little slower than the Nikkor 85 1.8 but not a huge difference. Both were faster than my Zeiss Batis 85 on A7ii in similar lighting but the Sony has a nice feature where it will detect the eyes. I also got to try the 70-200 and 24-70 in store on the K1 and compare with the D810 and similar 24-70 Nikkor. Perceptively anyway, the K1 felt no less responsive or no slower than the D810 in focus.

When you say slow focus, are you talking about a specific lens(es) and continuous tracking? Have you tried the recent Sony mirrorless with tracking subjects and can you comment on whether performance is better or worse with say the K3ii ?

Thanks for your time,

Tom.
03-08-2016, 12:31 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by redrockcoulee Quote
Welcome to the forum.

Was that at McBain s?
Yup
03-08-2016, 12:48 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by tomO2013 Quote
where I got to try my hands on one for a good hour
Welcome to the forum, you did well, here in Scotland the K1 still seems to be a myth.

03-08-2016, 06:18 AM   #9
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Welcome aboard! The 77mm on a FF camera would be a pretty useful FL, similar to 50mm on ASPC. It would look fantastic, too.
03-08-2016, 08:13 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by tomO2013 Quote
When you say slow focus, are you talking about a specific lens(es) and continuous tracking? Have you tried the recent Sony mirrorless with tracking subjects and can you comment on whether performance is better or worse with say the K3ii ?
When many on the forum are talking about "slow focus" they are talking about comparisons with very expensive glass and body offerings from other companies. If un-usually fast focus is a must, there are better options. I tried a D610 with a Nikon 85 on it, and wondered what the fuss is about. If there was a rule, "every time you say Pentax is slow focussing, you have to tell us what camera you're comparing it with" most of the people who say that wouldn't be able to post, and those who did would be comparing to cameras that cost at least $1000 more. Sure you can pay for faster focus in other brands. But most of the users of other brands are in the same position. You don't get the fast focus on your entry level body and kit lens. If you want it, you pay through the nose for it.

There's this notion out there that Pentax engineers should be able to come up with something as good as the top end Nikons and Canons, at half the price, even though Nikon and Canon can't do that. You see that reflected in many of the spots about AF speed. (This is just how to interpret what you read on the forum advice.)

Personally, I think Pentax is best at putting components into their cameras that give them the best price performance break down, in a body built like a tank. Their focus, is on giving their customers and edge where it can be provided at least expense, and avoiding expensive custom solutions that can only repaid for by a few.

Last edited by normhead; 03-08-2016 at 08:23 AM.
03-08-2016, 11:38 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
When many on the forum are talking about "slow focus" they are talking about comparisons with very expensive glass and body offerings from other companies. If un-usually fast focus is a must, there are better options. I tried a D610 with a Nikon 85 on it, and wondered what the fuss is about. If there was a rule, "every time you say Pentax is slow focussing, you have to tell us what camera you're comparing it with" most of the people who say that wouldn't be able to post, and those who did would be comparing to cameras that cost at least $1000 more. Sure you can pay for faster focus in other brands. But most of the users of other brands are in the same position. You don't get the fast focus on your entry level body and kit lens. If you want it, you pay through the nose for it.

There's this notion out there that Pentax engineers should be able to come up with something as good as the top end Nikons and Canons, at half the price, even though Nikon and Canon can't do that. You see that reflected in many of the spots about AF speed. (This is just how to interpret what you read on the forum advice.)

Personally, I think Pentax is best at putting components into their cameras that give them the best price performance break down, in a body built like a tank. Their focus, is on giving their customers and edge where it can be provided at least expense, and avoiding expensive custom solutions that can only repaid for by a few.
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
When many on the forum are talking about "slow focus" they are talking about comparisons with very expensive glass and body offerings from other companies. If un-usually fast focus is a must, there are better options. I tried a D610 with a Nikon 85 on it, and wondered what the fuss is about. If there was a rule, "every time you say Pentax is slow focussing, you have to tell us what camera you're comparing it with" most of the people who say that wouldn't be able to post, and those who did would be comparing to cameras that cost at least $1000 more. Sure you can pay for faster focus in other brands. But most of the users of other brands are in the same position. You don't get the fast focus on your entry level body and kit lens. If you want it, you pay through the nose for it.
That's very helpful - thank-you so much! I hadn't really seen the K1 as an entry level competitor. It's similarly priced (between D610 and D750 over here), but from a specification perspective it appears to be on a much higher level than Canons latest 5dsr and Nikons D810. In hand and doing a side by side on pre-production it felt better built, more feature packed, better IQ potential, more versatile with IBIS and focused at least as fast as a D810 and in body operation.
I was on another forum and a user commented that much of the perceived Pentax AF speed issue is down to choice of lenses - if I want to shoot sports I should consider one of Pentax's newer zooms. Continuous tracking accuracy with the K1 has yet to be seen and performance looks about average in terms of FPS.

Truthfully price is a factor no doubt in a consideration to buy the K1. However at 2500 where I am if I am prepared to pay 2500 I'm also prepared to spend 3700 for a D810 if it will be a better all round work horse with the holy trinity of zooms (D4s and 1dx do not have the resolution that I want). If I go Pentax it will be because it represents the best option primarily in these areas as well as providing a lens eco-system that I enjoy using (nice metal manual focus limited lenses are very alluring to the film shooter in me), being cheaper is a cherry on top.
I'm assuming that Pentax are simply running with smaller profit margins and hoping for economies of scale.
03-08-2016, 12:08 PM   #12
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Yeah, it's not fair to compare a $5000 kit to a $1500 kit. Lenses make a huge difference, and the newer ones are much faster. The newer bodies are much faster with screw-driven autofocus as well. The K3II is just FASTER than the K5, even when that 55-300 has to hunt, and it's not a fast hunter...
03-08-2016, 12:14 PM   #13
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QuoteQuote:
I'm assuming that Pentax are simply running with smaller profit margins and hoping for economies of scale.
I think Pentax has just gone with tried and true technology, not usually cutting edge but a year late once the price has come down, being in a position, with no manufacturer loyalties they are able to shop for the best components at the price level they want, and keeping their production lines running at capacity. No down time on the production lines. Production lines that are right the edge of supplying the demand are always going to be more cost efficient than lines capable of over supply.
03-08-2016, 10:21 PM   #14
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