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03-09-2016, 05:20 AM   #16
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Are you sure you're only lusting after her 100mm F2.8 macros?

03-09-2016, 05:27 AM   #17
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All this WR thing, pixel shift, shooting in the dark... are largely overrated features of the Pentax world. People buy waether sealed dslr and mount a tamron zoom on it. Zooms are breathing, air comes in and out, WR is mostly marketing stuff. Most camera have 8 ev of usable dynamic range. DXO charts make people lose sense of the real world.
03-09-2016, 06:42 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by aurele Quote
Keep in mind Canon L lens do need front filter to be "WR".

You don't use a 10$ cheap filter on them, or you'll ruin the utility of a good L lens. You use a very good filter, and that is expensive, like 100-200$ expensive. And that really price up the whole setup.

In that case, i say a K3 with a DA* is a far better value, if you want WR.
Not all of them need a filter in front of the lens in order to be weather sealed. And as I said, L lenses don't come cheap. If you add filters also in the equation then Canon lenses become even more expensive. And just to be clear, a full frame system (body and lenses) doesn't come cheap, not even in Pentax mount.

K-3 II has better WR than 5D Mark II, I agree with you. The only problem with DA* lenses is that they can't be used on a full frame camera (except if you'll use the crop mode from K-1).

So...it's a tough choice. He buys DA* lenses and stick with APS-C camera, or he invests in full frame lenses and then he will choose a body.

---------- Post added 03-09-16 at 01:59 PM ----------

For God's sake, this is the most stupid site I have ever seen. No offence, but they can't even write camera specs correctly.
03-09-2016, 11:45 AM   #19
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Big thanks to all!

Hi again,
thanks to all good advices on the road to a choice of new SLR. As many of you highlighted good Canon lenses are not cheap and very often they still don't have image stabilizer! that was one thing I learnt from the time when i used a Pentax K10 with stabilizer that worked with all lenses, even my old M and K lenses. That was great experience I like to be mobile and take photos with slow shutter speeds in low light conditions. So at the moment i think i will go back to Pentax...but one disadvantage is of course the crop factor. I do like shooting wide angle and it is hard to find good lenses in the range 15-20 mm (fullframe 35 mm).

cheers!

03-09-2016, 01:50 PM   #20
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I see you've already had loads of good replies, so I'll just say welcome.
03-10-2016, 05:42 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Yet, Pentax DA Limited lenses (despite they are good optically) can't endure tough weather conditions because are not WR.
Yes, that's true, but it depends also on the intended usage, because not every user intends to use their gear in rain, dust storm, etc. I for one do not benefit from WR (although I do own DA* lenses), but that's just me, due to my usage method.

In fact, the main point I was highlighting was the uniquely beautiful image rendering quality from these lenses { I wrote: "...you can utilise Pentax Limited lenses, both the DA LTD and FA LTD ranges, with their superb image quality and famous, lovely rendering." } and the fact that if the OP chooses the K-3II, or for that matter any Pentax body, it would enable him to gain access to said lenses.

Last edited by KDAFA; 03-10-2016 at 06:32 AM.
03-10-2016, 06:34 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by KDAFA Quote
Yes, that's true, but it depends also on the intended usage, because not every user intends to use their gear in rain, dust storm, etc. I for one do not benefit from WR, but that's just me, due to my usage method.

In fact, the main point I was highlighting was the uniquely beautiful image rendering quality from these lenses { I wrote: "...you can utilise Pentax Limited lenses, both the DA LTD and FA LTD ranges, with their superb image quality and famous, lovely rendering." } and the fact that if the OP chooses the K-3II, or for that matter any Pentax body, it would enable him to gain access to said lenses.
Quote from the OP initial question "I mostly enjoy to stay out in the field especially in a coastal environment with tough weather conditions and I do like to take photos in natural light with no flashes. not matter if it is summertime or wintertime. So the durability and relability of my equipment is very important." I didn't wanted to argue with you on the quality of Pentax DA Limited lenses. My answers were based on the OP type of shooting.
03-10-2016, 06:42 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The downside of the 5DII is the AF in low light and slow FPS. When the 5DII was released, AF were less sensitive than the last generation AF such as the one in K-3. Other than AF and FPS, the 5DII has a large sensor, so even if according to DXO, the K-3 should provide better DR etc... in practice, the 5DII will still deliver further image quality. But the K-3 image quality should be pretty close; in a smaller camera body. Although usually it's better to select a brand by the lenses available; lenses life cycles are 10 years or more, and camera bodies cycle faster.
So, according to you, lab tests and other theoretical arguments don't apply in real world? You mentioned that tests have shown that the k-3 have more dynamic range (I take your words for it, I didn't research this) but then you say that in real world, the 5D mark ii will still outperform th k-3 in this regard. What are the labs testing then? I'm honestly confused and not looking for an argument, but your comment sounds like "ff have a bigger sensor thus no matter what, it will produce better picture quality" - and that would be a pretty naive comment imo.

03-10-2016, 06:57 AM   #24
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There are some wide angle options even on a crop body. The low end of expense includes the fisheye 10-17, a nice little zoom. At 17mm it's pretty much an ultrawide and it's very fishy at 10mm. Sigma's 8-16 is a totally different lens. Of course you have the 21mm ltd and the 15mm ltd plus 10-20mm zooms of various flavors.

The options are there, and probably more options than will work on a full-frame right now. We're likely to see a few more in the coming years now that a FF K-mount is in the wild.

Beyond that, comparing these two cameras will factor down to the user. How do you use the camera, do you really get the best out of the settings or rely on post-processing to fix under or overexposure etc.
03-10-2016, 07:09 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Quote from the OP initial question "I mostly enjoy to stay out in the field especially in a coastal environment with tough weather conditions and I do like to take photos in natural light with no flashes. not matter if it is summertime or wintertime. So the durability and relability of my equipment is very important." I didn't wanted to argue with you on the quality of Pentax DA Limited lenses. My answers were based on the OP type of shooting.
Ah, I missed out on that point from the OP. Thanks for highlighting that, well pointed out. Now we have to wait for Pentax to come out with WR versions of the FA & DA Limiteds - but just don't mess with that rendering!
03-10-2016, 08:32 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nass Quote
I've just bought a 5d2 last weekend but I'd be absolutely amazed if my K3II doesn't outperform it in all sorts of respects. 5d2 is 5 year old technology. If nothing else a crop camera like k-3 has smaller files and less to process, and it also has a faster more recent processor. For example FPS, K-3II is double 5d2. Also I bet K-3ii's higher ISO is better.
All good statements, but why would the file size be smaller? 5dmk2 is 20MP and K3 is 24MP, so the K3 file size will be larger. And if you use k3ii + pixel shift (and I would absolutely recommend it under right circumstances!), the file sizes will be much larger. So, get the Pentax for IQ, for reach, and for general coolness of shooting Pentax . But not for smaller files.
03-10-2016, 08:50 AM   #27
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Excellent, cuts right through the BS, and lists about 20 reasons why you buy a K-3, including almost all physical metrics.
The site lists about 5 reasons, to buy a 5D, the only physical metric worth noting.... .6 stops better low noise high ISO performance, and .6 stops is barely noticeable and lists 20 reasons why to buy a K-3 over a 5 D.

Over all, I'd say the K-3 is a significantly better camera, looking at the numbers.

---------- Post added 03-10-16 at 10:55 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Not all of them need a filter in front of the lens in order to be weather sealed. And as I said, L lenses don't come cheap. If you add filters also in the equation then Canon lenses become even more expensive. And just to be clear, a full frame system (body and lenses) doesn't come cheap, not even in Pentax mount.

K-3 II has better WR than 5D Mark II, I agree with you. The only problem with DA* lenses is that they can't be used on a full frame camera (except if you'll use the crop mode from K-1).

So...it's a tough choice. He buys DA* lenses and stick with APS-C camera, or he invests in full frame lenses and then he will choose a body.

---------- Post added 03-09-16 at 01:59 PM ----------



For God's sake, this is the most stupid site I have ever seen. No offence, but they can't even write camera specs correctly.
There are a number of issues they don't really understand.... like they think the K-3s 13.4 EV dynamic range is only a .7 stop improvement over the 11.9 of the 5D, the actual difference is 1.5 stops, so maybe they don't really understand photography, but as a quick and dirty comparison, I like it.

Now if someone wants to sit down and do a better one, I'll be happy to endorse it, but, right now it's way more informative than comments like the above.

If you want to rip the site , fine, but until you point us at something better, it's the authority.

Compared to Imaging Resources
http://www.imaging-resource.com/cameras/canon/5d-mark-ii/vs/pentax/k-3-ii/

I have to say that one is better.

Imaging Resources.


Advantages for the 5D are laughable.
They include such gems of wisdom as
QuoteQuote:
"Bigger is (generally) better."
Nice accept in this isn't a general case.

QuoteQuote:
Bigger pixels
Better low light and dynamic range( all else equal)
Except in this case the K-3 has better dynamic range.

QuoteQuote:
Faster startup.
Ya, many of us have missed a lot of images because the camera took .8 seconds longer than another camera.

At least the above quoted link actually seems to be comparing known specs of the two cameras as opposed to spouting generalities.

However, if you read either site, it's unlikely you'd buy a 5D. Maybe if you do a lot of weddings in doors? That low light performance thin has to be really important to you to look at all those negatives for a .6 stop difference.

Even DxO, that champion of low light performance ranks the K-3 higher, not significantly, but higher.

Last edited by normhead; 03-10-2016 at 09:24 AM.
03-10-2016, 11:06 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
Are you sure you're only lusting after her 100mm F2.8 macros?
Quite sure. Her husband is also a friend and her brother was my college roommate. We go way back, all the way to high school. For any who are interested, here is her Flickr stream:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/fotomakr/

Renae is an obsessive photographer and IIRC managed to wear out three Canon 7D bodies (shutter) within the warranty period a few years ago. She currently shoots a 5D mk II...so far no failures! Edit: I just noticed that she upgraded to the 5DM3...


Steve

(...likes to promote the work of photographer friends...)

Last edited by stevebrot; 03-10-2016 at 12:33 PM.
03-10-2016, 11:09 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
All this WR thing, pixel shift, shooting in the dark... are largely overrated features of the Pentax world. People buy waether sealed dslr and mount a tamron zoom on it. Zooms are breathing, air comes in and out, WR is mostly marketing stuff. Most camera have 8 ev of usable dynamic range. DXO charts make people lose sense of the real world.
I shoot landscape in a very wet part of the world and beg to differ with you on many of the above points. No, I don't use WR lenses, but the body seals on my Pentax cameras have saved my bacon multiple times.


Steve
03-10-2016, 02:52 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by mogge Quote
So at the moment i think i will go back to Pentax...but one disadvantage is of course the crop factor.
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