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03-25-2016, 06:26 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by zoolander Quote
I take it you want to buy the 5D mark ii off your lady friend.

I've looked at similar cameras before, and what it comes down to is your lenses. There are some cheap lenses in Canon, then anything thats good is hugely expensive.. For a $2000 Canon lens, I can get a DA fisheye, a wide angle, and a 16-50 or 17-50, and also a cheap prime .........done !
For 2.000$ I can get:

- Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 (1.300$)
- Canon 50mm f1.4 (349$)
- Samyang 14mm f2.8 (309$)

Those are prices from B&H.

QuoteOriginally posted by zoolander Quote
Value for money is there with a crop camera. I think I could think of three other brands where you can get a lot more for your money before copping a pounding from canon pricing.
As a Canon owner I agree that Pentax K-3 II offer a lot of features for less money than similar bodies from Canon (70D, 7D Mark II). But you can not compare full frame lenses with lenses for APS-C cameras. Full frame lenses will always be more expensive regardless of the mount (Pentax, Canon, Nikon, etc.).


QuoteOriginally posted by zoolander Quote
But if you do go for the 5Dmarkii, there are some disturbing videos from Ed at photouniverse on youtube who bought into Canon again with a 6D, and L series lenses, and compared that to the K-3, and he sold the Canon gear on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4BDi3tph4M

Just bear with this video in the beginning, eds dumping his Canon gear:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6SslrCeCCA
This Ed?
Is this is the best source of information that you found on the internet? By the way, he's in love with Fuji right now.

03-26-2016, 12:37 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
We are not talking about changing systems. Please read all the OP's post. As for which system is better... it all comes down to personal preferences. On Nikon forum people cry about the oil problem on the sensors and about the ugly skin tones from their cameras compared to Canon, on Canon forum people cry about the lack of dynamic range compare to Nikon, on Pentax forum people cry about Af capabilities and the lack of third party lenses, etc. It's just a waste of time to find the perfect system.

Back on topic: I'm not sure how the prices for second hand cameras are in SUA, but I can get a 5D Mark II in Romania for about 620-670$ and a second hand 16-35mm f2.8L lens for about 1.000-1.100$ (even with warranty with a bit of luck). Or I can buy a new 15-30mm Tamron lens for 1.200$.

But again, that is not important, at least not for me. Why I said it's a tough decision? Let's say I have a 1.700$ budget and:
1. I want to take pictures with wide angle lenses
2. I want to be able to take pictures in tough weather conditions
3. I do like to take photos in natural light with no flashes.

Bare in mind that these 3 points are OP wishes, ok?

A 5D Mark II it's not as tough as K-3 II and it doesn't have the same dynamic range as K-3 II but it covers all three point from above. And it does them now, without the wait for a K-1 to drop in price. And after a few years he'll still have a superb lens to mount on the next body.

On the other hand, if he is interested in going full frame and he wants to stay with Pentax, he can buy a 15-30mm for K-3 II which is a full frame lens, but it costs 1.445$ at B&H (unfortunatly it's not avaible second hand) and once put it on K-3 II he will have a 22,5-45mm equivalent focal length.

So yes, it's a tough choice. Both are good cameras, but one is APS-C (and either he goes with APS-C lenses or go with full frame lenses) and with the other one he can already experience the wide angle shots and full frame low light capabilities without the wait. If he's not interested in going full frame then Pentax K-3 II with DA Limited or DA* lenses it's a very good option.

And let's be fair, how much difference do you think will be at low ISO when comes to the image quality between files from these to camera? Maybe Stevebrot can help us with some real examples (not lab tests) in which he put side by side his photos with the one from his friend who uses a 5D Mark II?
Thank you Dan to put us on track again. My question is not about which system that is best. I do like both Pentax and Canon but one reason why i struggle with the question is as i mention earlier is that i also taking pictures on BW film also and then i need full frame lenses...
03-26-2016, 07:40 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
For 2.000$ I can get:

- Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 (1.300$)
- Canon 50mm f1.4 (349$)
- Samyang 14mm f2.8 (309$)

Those are prices from B&H.
Where's the fisheye, and where's the auto focusing wide angle.

Don't tell someone that Canon FF L series lenses or consumer lenses are comparable in price to crop lenses. I paid AUD used $550 for a 16-50mm 2.8 DA*, and AUD $650 for a 50-135mm 2.8 DA* - try doing that with FF Canon native lenses - plus lenses sharp enough to resolve the mega pixels. I would estimate for a second 24-70 2.8 L ii you're looking at at least AUD $1500, and for a 70-200 2.8 L ii AUD $1900. He might be able to get a used Tamron 24-70 2.8 for AUD $900 to $1000, and 70-200 2.8 for AUD $1200-$1300 - at least $2000-$2500.

I mean you can get a Sigma 17-50 2.8 for under AUD $500 new.

QuoteOriginally posted by mogge Quote
Back on topic: I'm not sure how the prices for second hand cameras are in SUA, but I can get a 5D Mark II in Romania for about 620-670$ and a second hand 16-35mm f2.8L lens for about 1.000-1.100$ (even with warranty with a bit of luck). Or I can buy a new 15-30mm Tamron lens for 1.200$.
Yeah right, a 5D mark ii for $620- $670 .......... in monopoly money ! A 1 million shutter count !

AUD $1300 with 115000k shutter count. A half clapped-out camera:

http://http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Canon-5D-Mark-2-II-EOS-DSLR-accessories-/2...4AAOSwI3RW9L2m

A new series one 16-35 L $1300 :

NEW Canon USM Lens EF IS 16 35mm F 4L 615G 77mm Camera Lenses | eBay

But you don't buy series one because they're suited to 12 mega pixel Canon bodies (Creative destruction). You've gotta get a series II 16-35mm L for AUD $1700 that can cope with a 20 mega pixel body. (Remembering that when the 50 mega pixel 5Ds/r came out, not all of Canons lenses were recommended for this new camera, and canon had a short list of lenses which could successfully resolve it on the Canon website. Where as the Pentax lenses are plenty sharp and will not need a series ii for quiet a while ):

NEW Canon EF 16 35mm 35 F 2 8L II USM FOR 5D 500D 50D | eBay

There's your Tamron 15-30mm 2.8 for AUD $1200:

NEW Tamron SP 15 30mm F 2 8 DI VC USD Lens F2 8 FOR Canon EF Mount A012 1YRAUWTY | eBay

But alright, the Tamron is a great lens ........ but then what? Anything thats any good is over priced. What lenses in the future will the OP want or need, because people change their styles.

Okay, you could put my K-3, with its full compliment of lenses from fisheye, UWA, 16-50, 50-135, 200mm, 400mm, and then spend 3 times as much for a full compliment of lenses with a 5D ................

Will the Canon be 3 times better ? Will the Canon be twice as good ? Will the Canon be 30% better ? Will it be 10% better. Will the K-3ii be 10% better ?

I can extrapolate the same argument for a K-1, and I personally don't see a K-1 as being a reasonable option considering the cost of replacing my existing set-up. Replacing the fisheye, UWA, 16-50mm, and 50-135mm, it'll cost more than twice what I paid for it, in full frame .......... therefore, it had better be twice as good - bare minimum !

So if you're on a budget for full frame, the only cost effective way is with primes.

Then something like this happens:


Create a ledger, list the bodies and lenses you want or need, decide your option also, work out what you want down the track, then add it all up.
03-27-2016, 02:00 AM   #49
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For what it's worth, I'm using both these cameras now. My 5d2 has MPE65 and MTEX24 mounted, and my K32 has Tamron 70-200, AF540FGZ and extension tube. I've only used it for a week but initial thoughts are: that the 5d2 is noticeably more heavy. More dated menu/interface.I'm used to a front edial to zoom into pictures when reviewing and I dislike the Canon equivalent of pushing a button. On the flipside the camera lets me use MPE65, the custom menu is nice, and it talks to the flash in a way Pentax would (double press makes guide lights come on). Picture quality both outstanding.

03-27-2016, 02:39 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by zoolander Quote
Where's the fisheye, and where's the auto focusing wide angle.

Don't tell someone that Canon FF L series lenses or consumer lenses are comparable in price to crop lenses. I paid AUD used $550 for a 16-50mm 2.8 DA*, and AUD $650 for a 50-135mm 2.8 DA* - try doing that with FF Canon native lenses - plus lenses sharp enough to resolve the mega pixels. I would estimate for a second 24-70 2.8 L ii you're looking at at least AUD $1500, and for a 70-200 2.8 L ii AUD $1900. He might be able to get a used Tamron 24-70 2.8 for AUD $900 to $1000, and 70-200 2.8 for AUD $1200-$1300 - at least $2000-$2500.

I mean you can get a Sigma 17-50 2.8 for under AUD $500 new.



Yeah right, a 5D mark ii for $620- $670 .......... in monopoly money ! A 1 million shutter count !

AUD $1300 with 115000k shutter count. A half clapped-out camera:

http://http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Canon-5D-Mark-2-II-EOS-DSLR-accessories-/2...4AAOSwI3RW9L2m

A new series one 16-35 L $1300 :

NEW Canon USM Lens EF IS 16 35mm F 4L 615G 77mm Camera Lenses | eBay

But you don't buy series one because they're suited to 12 mega pixel Canon bodies (Creative destruction). You've gotta get a series II 16-35mm L for AUD $1700 that can cope with a 20 mega pixel body. (Remembering that when the 50 mega pixel 5Ds/r came out, not all of Canons lenses were recommended for this new camera, and canon had a short list of lenses which could successfully resolve it on the Canon website. Where as the Pentax lenses are plenty sharp and will not need a series ii for quiet a while ):

NEW Canon EF 16 35mm 35 F 2 8L II USM FOR 5D 500D 50D | eBay

There's your Tamron 15-30mm 2.8 for AUD $1200:

NEW Tamron SP 15 30mm F 2 8 DI VC USD Lens F2 8 FOR Canon EF Mount A012 1YRAUWTY | eBay

But alright, the Tamron is a great lens ........ but then what? Anything thats any good is over priced. What lenses in the future will the OP want or need, because people change their styles.

If you know where to look...
Canon EF 16 35mm F 2 8L II USM Ultra Wide Angle Zoom Lens for EOS New 1910B002 013803078596 | eBay

Here is your wide angle lens, and I mean wide angle. If you put your 17-50mm Sigma on a K-3 II it become 25,5-75mm (or 24-75mm if you mount a Pentax 16-50mm).

And here is an offer for Canon 70-200mm f2.8L Canon EF 70 200mm F 2 8L II Is USM Lens 2751B002 Brand New for EOS DSLR Cameras | eBay

Or if you want an all around lens with quite good performance you can buy quite cheap this lens. http://www.ebay.com/itm/271381167891?rmvSB=true

As I said in the other comment, if you want to compare lens prices don't do it with full frame lenses vs. crop lenses. Full frame lenses will always be more expensive. Compare Pentax full frame lenses with Canon full frame lenses.


QuoteOriginally posted by zoolander Quote
Okay, you could put my K-3, with its full compliment of lenses from fisheye, UWA, 16-50, 50-135, 200mm, 400mm, and then spend 3 times as much for a full compliment of lenses with a 5D ................

Will the Canon be 3 times better ? Will the Canon be twice as good ? Will the Canon be 30% better ? Will it be 10% better. Will the K-3ii be 10% better ?

I can extrapolate the same argument for a K-1, and I personally don't see a K-1 as being a reasonable option considering the cost of replacing my existing set-up. Replacing the fisheye, UWA, 16-50mm, and 50-135mm, it'll cost more than twice what I paid for it, in full frame .......... therefore, it had better be twice as good - bare minimum !

Probably Canon will not be better than K-3 II, but in the future if you will want/need a full frame body your current lenses are worth nothing because they won't be any good on a full frame body. So, you have to think if a crop body will do the job for you or not.

If it does then you will have a little more money in your pocket and a very good camera in your hand (I'm talking about K-3 II).

But if you plan to upgrade to a full frame body in the future, then 16-50mm, 50-135mm, 17-50mm are waste of money because you can not benefit from them on a full frame body.

So, for the last time, it depends on the OP future plans. With Canon he must invest in full frame lenses which he will be able to use on his future bodies.

With Pentax K-3 II he must either stay with crop lenses, or he can invest in full frame lenses, but then he will spend quite the same money on Pentax full frame lenses as he will pay for Canon lenses.

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 03-27-2016 at 02:49 AM.
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