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06-19-2009, 07:54 AM   #1
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Maybe, almost a new Canon to Pentax Convert...maybe.. ;)

I think you "guys" might be gaining an FNG. I just tonight (errrr, ummmmm, last night now) read about the K7 for the first time. Last year I had a difficult decision is deciding between the 40D and the K20D but the 40D won out for a handful of reasons. But when I read about the new K7 the major reservations I had about noise look, from the examples in this thread, completely addressed.

I shoot for fun and as a way to keep me active. I have rheumatoid arthritis and it's starting to really limit me more each year. So, last year I decided since I was forced to give up the sports I have enjoyed for the past 40+ years I would try and get back into an old hobby....photography. I was never very good but I never cared, I liked it and it was a nice way to get outside more and walk more w/o it feeling like a forced march. So, I went shopping for gear after a nice windfall.

I really do not remember all the reasons I went with the 40D over the K20D but, part was I did not understand RAW and the anti-aliasing thing. I do know I was aware I would be needing a solid LiveView Feature and the Pentax K20D system was, well, not great compared to the 40D. Plus I did not yet own a copy of PS3 and LR so I looked at the noise for higher ISO's in all the reviews but did not understand the difference in what I was looking at between Pentax and the other brands. I missed the fact the detail was there and could be tailored to my preferences in post rather then the aggressive fashion Canon does, even for RAW files.

Annnnnyway, I have actually kept an eye on Pentax ever since the day I ordered on Amazon. I did not think I made a wrong choice but that there were so many things about the K20D I really liked. Not the least of which was the weather sealing on an inexpensive body compared to the total lack of it on anything under $3k from Canon. Where I want and like to shoot the most there is bound to be dust or weather to deal with or even salt air. So, I have not ventured into areas I really want to with my current gear. I mean it has to last so, I make the concession to not get close to the elements. Indoor studio type shots are too important to me to risk the gear, so it stays nice and warm and cozy only outside on nice days and otherwise indoors.

So what do I see now? I see some guy with his pre-release K7 out in the rain soaked and happy as a clam. This catches my attention for sure because THAT is what I was wanting last year. Still, I know I also need better high ISO results with the K7 than the K20D. I am not sure it's there yet because everything is essentially beta whether it be the firmware or the image sensor none of the testers seem to have an intact RTM version of the body yet. But I really like what I have seen from those who posted in threads here. The high ISO for static shots has been solid. But I need to see results for shooting sports at ISO's high enough to allow faster shutter speeds to freeze motion.

I have looked at the Pentax DA* weather sealed/resistant lenses and found some nice lenses that are fast enough if the high ISO handling is there to let me shoot at 1600-3200 for night games outdoors or poorly light venues.

Anyway that is what has brought me to PentaxForums. I promise to read as much as I can before asking stoooopid questions and otherwise will just wait in anticipation and hope the final versions of the K7 are as good as these look and the reviews are as positive as they seem so far...I will be selling all my Canon gear and coming back to my first SLR love and that was Pentax and my old ME Super.

Oh, the other thing I am liking is the smaller body might be a LOT easier on my hands to hold. As it is right now I never use my camera w/o a hand strap and/or a neck strap in the even I lose my grip out of the blue.

So, thanks for what looks to be a nice casual place...if none of this makes sense, know I was up all night researching the silly K7 and reading all I could as well as looking for lenses I KNOW I will miss from my Canon setup if I do make the switch...plus adding numbers to see what the change will cost me...sigh...it's only money I probably shouldn't spend...hehehe...

06-19-2009, 08:23 AM   #2
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welcome to Pentax Forums. I'm a new member here as well but a long-time lurker. I'm an ex-Nikon user btw. if you ever buy the K-7, may I suggest also that you take a look at the wide selection of outstanding and excellent Pentax lenses. just be careful not to be bitten by the LBA syndrome though. it's expensive and I got bitten by it.

please enjoy your stay.
06-19-2009, 09:09 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
welcome to Pentax Forums. I'm a new member here as well but a long-time lurker. I'm an ex-Nikon user btw. if you ever buy the K-7, may I suggest also that you take a look at the wide selection of outstanding and excellent Pentax lenses. just be careful not to be bitten by the LBA syndrome though. it's expensive and I got bitten by it.

please enjoy your stay.
Thanks for the welcome and nice to meetcha...

Now about the LBA syndrome...already afflicted so nothing new there. But I really do only grab lenses I actually use.

In fact I just bought a Sigma 100-300...d'oh!! But I already paid for it so, well, it's due in any day now.

First thing I did was hit the lens reviews and lenses sections on the Pentax site as well as my normal sources for info. Based on that I roughed out a plan of lenses to get. Wanna know what really would frustrate me? I want all my lenses weather sealed and the Sigma's that fill the holes i see in the Pentax line up on first glance are. of course not weather sealed as none of the Sigma's are sealed. But I have to have my 10-20 or I might die...I like what I see in the 50-135 DA* and the 300mm DA* prime then there is the one size fits all 60-250 DA* which could replace a 70-200 f/2.8 but I would rather have the extra stop of light...I dunno what I will use to replace my 24-60 though...I love that beastie. The lens line up is going to take a bit of reading and thought because I dunno what letters mean what just yet...and these days i confuse a lot more easily than I usedtodid...

Anyway, it is all just a thought experiment for now. I did promise myself I would wait at least a month after the early adopter rush for the new body. Canon, Nikon, Oly or whatever...there is always that excitement for folks to try the new toys. So I'll wait and let them shake loose anything which might get over looked in the early returns.

So, lots to read and still at least a month, prolly two for there to be enough K7's in the wild to start seeing any issues needing that first post release firmware update.
06-19-2009, 09:14 AM   #4
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While you are wallowing in LBA, do consider Pentax's DA 10-17 fisheye. It's a really fun lens and quite different than a 10-20mm. Welcome to the site.

06-19-2009, 09:27 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by blackcloudbrew Quote
While you are wallowing in LBA, do consider Pentax's DA 10-17 fisheye. It's a really fun lens and quite different than a 10-20mm. Welcome to the site.
hahahaha...wallow, the perfect term here for sure...hehehehe....

Not much into fisheye's, probably has something to do with my college years....as far as I remember anyway. However, I had my eye on the DA 12-24mm. It's the plain old rectilinear type lens so it might be a nice option? Plus I already have a CPL to fit it...

Is it fair to ask if there is a Rosetta stone to allow me to decipher the different lens designations? I really do want as many weather sealed lenses as I can shoe horn into the lineup.

Thanks for the warm welcome! I come over from POTN where the folks are, for the vast majority, super and fun...so, nice to find another place along the same lines.
06-19-2009, 10:08 AM   #6
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First off, welcome to the forums!

I can highly recommend the DA 12-24 - both it and my DA 50-200 are my landscape lenses of choice. However, only the DA* versions of the Pentax lens lineup are weather sealed, so I may go that route at some point (DA* 16-50/2.8 and DA* 50-135 or DA* 60-250). Note the K-7 release coincides with the updated kit lenses, which have a WR (weather resistant) designation. Nice option for a starter kit in the Pentax lineup to have a WR 18-55 and WR 50-200 lens set.

Take care,
Marc
06-19-2009, 10:44 AM   #7
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I see that you are looking for a wide angle lens. some reliable people here suggested the same lenses. you might also want to take a look at the 14mm. I'm taking a good look at it as well.
06-19-2009, 11:56 AM   #8
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AS far as rosetta stones go, you can find out a lot of Pentax stuff, lenses included, from the compilied info on this site:

Welcome to Bojidar Dimitrov's Pentax K-Mount Page

06-19-2009, 01:42 PM   #9
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Welcome.

I shot a canon FTb QL for many years since the late 70s, then a canon A1 for the last 5.

I thought my first DSLR was going to be the 40D, but didn't compare brands - don't really know why - because I'd set my eyes on the 60mm EF-S macro lens. Bought the 40D off craigslist, but to be honest, felt no 'magic'. Played with it for a couple of weeks (had also bought the 10-20 sigma off craigslist by then.

Came across Pentax and went to handle a K20 in the store. Sold the 40D and two lenses and never looked back. I'm not saying the 40D is not an excellent camera - just didn't do it for me for some reason.

Plus, as soon as I became aware of some of the K20 features I hoped I would like it in hand: weather sealing, in body shake reduction (I use it all the time except on tripod or stable surfaces, as everyone else here probably does), the lens line-up from 50 years of Pentax, the lens line-up from other brands (infinite possibilities), here something for your LBA: v o i g t l a n d e r, micro AF adjustments for each lens, and some other nifty thing besides. Oh, and for me the fact you get in body multiple exposure is a big deal for certain photos - didn't expect it but used to do it reasonably often on film.

Re the noise. You said the right thing: with Pentax is about given you the freedom to deal with it in PP. But, honestly, the level of noise is not bad at all right out of the body. For example, have a look at the first of the following articles on the K20D. Of course we expect the K-7 to be better on each count:

Comparing the K20D to the Nikon D700 (many more $$$)
The Online Photographer: High ISO vs. Image Stabilization

More on the K20D in low light
The Online Photographer: Pentax K20D Report?Part IV: AF in Low-Light

K20's CMOS sensorThe Online Photographer: Pentax K20D Report?Part II: The CMOS Sensor

K20D's focussing ability
The Online Photographer: Pentax K20D Report?Part I: Focus

OK, so I'm a little biased :-)
06-19-2009, 01:47 PM   #10
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Oh, and I now use the pentax 12-24 and it's superb. Very rectilinear for the wide focal lengts, if that's what you like. A gem.

I didn't shoot the sigma 10-20 enough to be able to compare but my rough impression is that the 12-24 beats it in just about every respect. Of course it doesn't get wider than 12 but that's already very wide. Remember too that the pentax field of view multiplication ratio is a little smaller at 1.5x.
06-19-2009, 02:59 PM   #11
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This is fun...everyone is being so great...thanks!

I am not sure but I think I will replace the 10-20 with the 12-24. From the samples I've viewed it's very solid plus it's much faster than the current Sigma and no telling when the 10-20 f/3.5 will actually hit the shelves or what it's gonna cost. I know the extra 2mm is worth a lot of FOV (about 10-degrees on a 1.5x crop like the K7/Kx0D bodies. But it's only a few steps backward, I haven;t run the calc on that but it's close enough. For me the UWA's are for pure fun with no real purpose beyond my own entertainment.

lc_toronto: The 10-20 is a super fun lens on the 1.6x crop sensor bodies. At the wide end there is almost too much distortion for my likes but I have "...learned to love the bomb..." I guess. But as I mention above, the 12-24 looks just great in terms of sample shots and tests.

One thing I do not do is measurebate, not even in private when nobody is watching. I look at the numbers, they give a fair overall idea of what something might be like and if there is anything horrid to look for in a lens. Beyond a reference, I never look at that too much...so, I prefer to condier the results over the "best" numbers run out there by the cronic measurebators out there. Still if not for them, where would be be?

QuoteOriginally posted by lc_toronto Quote
Welcome.

I shot a canon FTb QL for many years since the late 70s, then a canon A1 for the last 5.

I thought my first DSLR was going to be the 40D, but didn't compare brands - don't really know why - because I'd set my eyes on the 60mm EF-S macro lens. Bought the 40D off craigslist, but to be honest, felt no 'magic'. Played with it for a couple of weeks (had also bought the 10-20 sigma off craigslist by then.

Came across Pentax and went to handle a K20 in the store. Sold the 40D and two lenses and never looked back. I'm not saying the 40D is not an excellent camera - just didn't do it for me for some reason.
That EF-S 60mm macro is a very sweet lens so I can see how it could convince a person to go with the Canon brand. Plus, well, it's Canon and even though Pentax has been around at least as long, they sort of seem like a brand-x these days because they don't spend the fat cash, at least here in the US, on advertizing. So, in comparison to Nikon and Canon it's harder for them. I actually like that they are not the first gear people thing of...it puts them in more of a position to make the cameras we all want not just trivial variations on a theme. And yeah, I get the irony in what I just wrote because from a certain POV the K7 could be considered just a variation of the Kx0D line. But they have to have a reference point somewhere and the K20/K10 are not bad places to begin.

I really do agree about the 40D...but I was and AM very happy with it. But, there is something that never felt like Canon put a lot of work into the body, rather they made something just good enough to lure people to want a more complete body. Sort of like that carrot on the end of a stick thing. I have a laundry list of what I am not thrilled with but, really, it's a very good body and I LOVE my lenses.

QuoteQuote:
Plus, as soon as I became aware of some of the K20 features I hoped I would like it in hand: weather sealing, in body shake reduction (I use it all the time except on tripod or stable surfaces, as everyone else here probably does), the lens line-up from 50 years of Pentax, the lens line-up from other brands (infinite possibilities), here something for your LBA: v o i g t l a n d e r, micro AF adjustments for each lens, and some other nifty thing besides. Oh, and for me the fact you get in body multiple exposure is a big deal for certain photos - didn't expect it but used to do it reasonably often on film.
LBA and the Pentax could be a VERY scary combo for me...these days I pretty much just stick to the antiques market having grown up around it...soooo, I end up hunting in a few of the actually very nice charity thrift stores we have in the area. One of which ALWAYS has a nice selection of lenses, mostly older of course...but if I have a body that can mount almost anyon...errr....anything, I might just end up with my own plastic bin full of old lenses. My better half is no help here either...see she encourages me to have these things...and honestly she never gives me any grief over it all. So, I don't even have the luxury of that as a deterrent...hahahaha....

Other than the weather sealing...the MF adjustment is one of the other features I really have been wanting. And I hate to admitt this, I never even paid attention to that feature in the k20D when I looked at it last summer. I guess I was supposed to not buy it then and instead wait for the K7 to HOPEFULLY be all I was looking for to begin with...

QuoteQuote:
Re the noise. You said the right thing: with Pentax is about given you the freedom to deal with it in PP. But, honestly, the level of noise is not bad at all right out of the body.
That was what I did not fully appreciate last summer. I did not have the time with digital to see the RAW images and actually note the difference. last night I really looked at the detail retained by the Pentax. I looked at the reviews on DPReview and combined with the samples they have there for the K20D I was able to really notice the detail retention. And of course if I want the body does give the option of doing various levels of pre-processing to potentially save on post.


QuoteQuote:
For example, have a look at the first of the following articles on the K20D. Of course we expect the K-7 to be better on each count:

Comparing the K20D to the Nikon D700 (many more $$$)
The Online Photographer: High ISO vs. Image Stabilization

More on the K20D in low light
The Online Photographer: Pentax K20D Report?Part IV: AF in Low-Light

K20's CMOS sensorThe Online Photographer: Pentax K20D Report?Part II: The CMOS Sensor

K20D's focussing ability
The Online Photographer: Pentax K20D Report?Part I: Focus

OK, so I'm a little biased :-)
FUN...more links to pour over...or is the become "poor" over? ....wanna know a secret? I think if the K7 was out NOW, all my Canon gear would prolly be up for sale today. I did at least promise myself I would sell it all before buying the new body. I figure it can all be gone in under a week so it's not like that is a big deal...plus there is no chance to rationalize keeping BOTH sets of gear...hehehehe....but right now I do really think I should have trusted the tiny voice in my head and gone right back into Pentax like I did way back when. Live and learn, right?

I have noticed that I really like the colors produced, consistently to my eye, from the Pentax bodies. Somehow it has more of the look of depth I only see from Canon FF bodies.
06-19-2009, 06:55 PM   #12
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After further review....

I am just going to make the jump as soon as I can. I am just not going to wait for the K7 to be released I have made up my mind I just want to give it a shot. Worst case, I hate it all.

I have an event I must shoot over the last part of next week then after that, everything goes up for sale over on POTN.

I really want to restate my thanks for the wonderful welcome and positive waves dudes...hehehehe...sorry, i am sort of goofy some, ok, most days.

now, I just need to drop the bomb on my Canon buds over on POTN, I really made some good friends over there and the info is just amazing...I hope they will still talk to me.

I[ll start posting questions on the threads here after I read the K20 manual. From a fast glance and the videos over on YouTube, it is going to be a bit of time to assimilate the menu system and settings. And ya know what? My better half sort of knows how to use a Canon, but this will completely frustrate her...COOL...now she can get her OWN gear and keep her mitts off mine! hehehehehe...

Now to put serious work into my new lens line-up. Plus at least one flash, closet Strobist and fan of DIY here as well as a believer in the Light: Science & Magic book by Fil Hunter.
06-19-2009, 08:09 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by brecklundin Quote
I am just going to make the jump as soon as I can. I am just not going to wait for the K7 to be released I have made up my mind I just want to give it a shot. Worst case, I hate it all.

I have an event I must shoot over the last part of next week then after that, everything goes up for sale over on POTN.

I really want to restate my thanks for the wonderful welcome and positive waves dudes...hehehehe...sorry, i am sort of goofy some, ok, most days.

now, I just need to drop the bomb on my Canon buds over on POTN, I really made some good friends over there and the info is just amazing...I hope they will still talk to me.

I[ll start posting questions on the threads here after I read the K20 manual. From a fast glance and the videos over on YouTube, it is going to be a bit of time to assimilate the menu system and settings. And ya know what? My better half sort of knows how to use a Canon, but this will completely frustrate her...COOL...now she can get her OWN gear and keep her mitts off mine! hehehehehe...

Now to put serious work into my new lens line-up. Plus at least one flash, closet Strobist and fan of DIY here as well as a believer in the Light: Science & Magic book by Fil Hunter.

well, it would be a better idea if you could invite some of your friends to come here as well. atleast the more, the merrier.

we are on the same boat right now. and dont worry, rest assured that I won't throw you overboard, as long as I have the life-vest.
06-19-2009, 09:04 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
well, it would be a better idea if you could invite some of your friends to come here as well. atleast the more, the merrier.

we are on the same boat right now. and dont worry, rest assured that I won't throw you overboard, as long as I have the life-vest.
Will do, we have an annual Gathering near my home on August 22 so perhaps I can have everything in place and actually have a clue about having the camera itself configured correctly. I was just getting really conversant with the darned 40D and here I go making not just a body switch but a while freaking brand switch!!

And, he, hold onto that life vest...better yet, bring 5-6 of them, I'm built for comfort not speed...

FYI, here is what happens when you tease a bud that she does pretty good work....for a girl...sigh...but hey she almost made me look good....HAHAHAHA:

06-21-2009, 01:52 PM   #15
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Here's a suggestion:

I really do appreciate what you're going through and why you want to jump into the Pentax ocean right this minute. But consider these alternatives: buy a 2nd hand Pentax for say $200 (one of the somewhat older models at perhaps 6MPixels). This will give you very comparable quality to the K20D and K-7 - at least for that event. Then you are free to wait for the K-7. Later you may decide you like having the spare body, or sell it. Or, keep your 40D that you are familiar with for that event, then go for the K20 / K-7.

I believe - not 100% sure - that the K-7 will only allow focus adjustments for DA lenses and other equally recent lenses. In which case all those thrift - shops lenses - some of which could give you absolutely marvelous IQ - might not be adjustable. I may be wrong about this because there may be firmware tricks or future firmware upgrades (in case Pentax gets a wave of complaints that makes it backtrack on this decision geared perhaps to have us upgrade our lenses in exchange of hard-won pennies uh many dollars). Others on this forum surely know the answer at least to the first scenario (tricks). Second scenario (backtrack) probably highly unlikely.
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