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View Poll Results: Are you interested in a Beginner's Gallery?
Yes 425.00%
No 1062.50%
Maybe... I would have to know more. 212.50%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

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08-23-2010, 02:04 PM   #1
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Beginner's Gallery

Well, Pentax Forums now has the "Exclusive Gallery". Needless to say, not many (if any) beginners are going to have photos make it in. But, just because we aren't professionals or hobbyists with pro-level skills doesn't mean we take crappy pictures.

I broached the subject of a beginner's gallery, to showcase the excellent work beginners with less than 36 months of photography experience, with Adam and he shot it down. He said we should stick to the Monthly Contests, World Pentax Day, and the Post Your Photo section to "improve your photography". World Pentax Day is once a year, and as such is a limited venue. A monthly contest may not have a topic that is of interest (or is doable for some) to some, so that too is a limited venue in that in order to participate one would have to wait until the next month and hope that the topic is something of interest or doable (and if not, one would have to wait another month - possibly hoping in vain for a doable or interesting topic). And, lastly, no matter how much good feedback is given for a photo in the PYP section, it's still not the same as being recognized by being chosen for a gallery.

I don't think it's fair that beginners should have to compete with experienced photographers to get in the Exclusive Gallery, and at the same time I don't necessarily think the suggestions Adam gave were enough. I think beginners should have a special place where we can be recognized for our talents, relative to our experience.

So, I started this thread to find out if there would be any interest in a gallery for the best photos from beginning photographers. It wouldn't be a replacement for Pentax Forums or all the things we can learn here. I'm thinking more of a supplement, because if we're constantly improving shouldn't we have someplace to showcase our stuff too, besides the PYP sub-forum?

The beginner's gallery wouldn't be here on Pentax Forums, because Adam has already squashed the idea. But I have web space that can be used, and I'm sure I'm not the only person with the tech skills needed to set up a gallery. The nuts and bolts are to be sorted out later, but right now I'm just trying to see how much interest there would be in a beginner's gallery.

Please vote using the Poll. Comments are welcome.

08-23-2010, 03:01 PM   #2
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You're putting a lot of personal blame on me here, let along trying to boycott the site- not nice. Could probably get away with deleted this thread for that :P In any case, I won't. If you wanted to propose a new idea, you should have done so in the site suggestions forum, and not in the exclusive gallery thread, which should remain on-topic. I'm always open to new ideas- but do keep in mind that running this site takes more time than I have, and I can't just fork out new sections day by day.

Just because you're a beginner doesn't mean you take bad photographs. I haven't seen your photos, so I don't know how much of your idea stems from personal experience, but here's an excellent place to start and get comments: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/member-photo-albums/

I think a great thing to do would be to start a beginner's gallery and have a group of people run through all the photos and give tips for improvement. This can easily be accomplished using the album system, in which comments are even faster than replying to threads (thanks to AJAX!).

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08-23-2010, 05:28 PM   #3
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Adam, I definitely wasn't trying to make you look bad, and I was not advocating a boycott of Pentax Forum in any way. Nowhere did I suggest anyone stop coming here. In fact, I believe I plainly stated that the beginners <strike>forum</strike> gallery would be a supplementary showcase for the things we learned here. How is that trying to boycott?

You DID dismiss my idea for a beginners gallery, and I only said as much -- I didn't add any extra commentary or opinion. You nixed my idea, plain and simple and I said so, plain and simple. So, please don't try to say I was trying to lay blame or make you look bad. Again, I was not trying to do that.

Also, the reason I brought it up in the Exclusive Gallery thread is because it was an afterthought to the on topic post I made. You are trying to make it seem like I just up and made the suggestion in the wrong thread. That's not how it was, and you know it. Furthermore, I didn't do any different in making my related suggestion than anybody else did who made related suggestions in that thread.

You may not like what I said, or my idea for a separate, but supplementary, beginners gallery, but I didn't do anything wrong or break any rules or terms of service. If you would have deleted this thread just because you didn't like the topic, that would not have been fair. Especially in light of the fact that I did not, and was not, calling for a boycott of PF. In case I didn't make it clear enough earlier, I wanted the beginners gallery to be a complement to what newbies learn on Pentax Forums. You have my intentions totally wrong.

Please excuse any typos, as this was done from my cell phone.


QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
You're putting a lot of personal blame on me here, let along trying to boycott the site- not nice. Could probably get away with deleted this thread for that :P In any case, I won't. If you wanted to propose a new idea, you should have done so in the site suggestions forum, and not in the exclusive gallery thread, which should remain on-topic. I'm always open to new ideas- but do keep in mind that running this site takes more time than I have, and I can't just fork out new sections day by day.

Just because you're a beginner doesn't mean you take bad photographs. I haven't seen your photos, so I don't know how much of your idea stems from personal experience, but here's an excellent place to start and get comments: Member Photo Albums - PentaxForums.com

I think a great thing to do would be to start a beginner's gallery and have a group of people run through all the photos and give tips for improvement. This can easily be accomplished using the album system, in which comments are even faster than replying to threads (thanks to AJAX!).

Last edited by NiftyFifty; 08-23-2010 at 05:46 PM.
08-23-2010, 05:35 PM   #4
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So, basically you want to have a B-list gallery that excludes seasoned photographers?

08-23-2010, 05:47 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by extravagrant Quote
So, basically you want to have a B-list gallery that excludes seasoned photographers?
I would answer you, but I don't feed trolls.
08-23-2010, 06:26 PM   #6
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There are enough photo posting options available already.

And, especially as a new member, you are pretty lippy with the forum administrator.
08-23-2010, 06:39 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by SpecialK Quote
There are enough photo posting options available already.

And, especially as a new member, you are pretty lippy with the forum administrator.
Pardon me, but I didn't know that I had a "place" I needed to stay in just because I'm new to the forum. We're all adults here. As long as we aren't attacking each other or breaking any TOS, any of us are allowed to speak our minds as we see fit, regardless of how long we've been members.
08-23-2010, 06:53 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by NiftyFifty Quote
Pardon me, but I didn't know that I had a "place" I needed to stay in just because I'm new to the forum. We're all adults here. As long as we aren't attacking each other or breaking any TOS, any of us are allowed to speak our minds as we see fit, regardless of how long we've been members.
That's true, you're certainly free to speak your mind. Just don't be surprised when other forum members chime in with their opinion regarding your tone and attitude. With all due respect, I personally think you were out of line in your original post and I have a feeling your attitude isn't going to serve you well on this forum in the long run.

08-23-2010, 07:55 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by dgaies Quote
That's true, you're certainly free to speak your mind. Just don't be surprised when other forum members chime in with their opinion regarding your tone and attitude. With all due respect, I personally think you were out of line in your original post and I have a feeling your attitude isn't going to serve you well on this forum in the long run.
Like I said, we can all say what we want as long as its done without personal attacks or breaking the TOS. At the end of the day, it's all just a bunch of disparate OPINIONS anyway, no one being any less or more valid than another.

You have no idea what you're talking about as far as my "attitude" goes. You don't know what my attitude is like from day-to-day. You don't know me, so you can't possibly tell what kind of experience I'm going to have on this forum in the long run. Right now, I'm in a serious frame of mind, which I'm aware is coming across as having "attitude", but all you are doing is reading words without having any idea about how they would sound if I was speaking them in person.

I don't walk around all super-serious 24/7. I have my serious moments as well as light-hearted, friendly and melancholy moments just like everyone else, and I'm not going to be fake about how I'm feeling, or what I'm thinking, just to make a bunch of strangers feel all warm and fuzzy about me. I have an opinion that some people don't like. Big friggin' whoop. It's not the first time someone will disagree with me, and it won't be the last. Life goes on, regardless of any of our opinions.
08-23-2010, 09:33 PM   #10
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NiftyFifty, I don't think having a gallery solely for "beginners" would be beneficial to any of the "beginners" in the long run. Galleries for all, already exist across PF.
My understanding of the Exclusive Gallery is that anyone could add their images then approved like any other valid gallery. I believe it is an attempt at improving on PPG right here on PF (see PPG threads here on PF for background).
The Exclusive Gallery is not excluding but inclusive.

So anybody from "beginners" to whatever is deemed "professionals or hobbyists with pro-level skills" can offer their shots to be accepted or declined. Perhaps you may be looking for an explanation of why a shot was accepted or declined. And that could be helpful but that is a different issue. But I believe that just looking at others’ accepted work and responses to it, is a learning process.

If for some reason any of the "beginners" feels overwhelmed by the work posted in the Exclusive Gallery that may be understandable to some degree (I felt a little intimidated early on about posting pictures in general), then there are other venues on this forum to post pictures and receive responses. Many take advantage of this.
Maybe it's something to think about.

As mentioned earlier by others, there are Monthly contests, challenges, themes, the Critique section and others beyond the Gallery, World Pentax Day, and the Exclusive Gallery where members can post their images and receive a response. One may debate the quality of photos or responses but they come from all sorts of photographic backgrounds. And therein lies the beauty.
Fear not in posting in these other sections because the learning will be more genuine and honest than simply posting in a gallery where all are "beginners."

I have not posted to the Exclusive Gallery YET because I don’t feel I am to that level, but have taken advantage of the other image posting sections on PF. The return has been great for my personal photographic growth and so has my learning of what others are doing.
Perhaps that is a path you may want to consider after all. Good Luck.

Last edited by Jools; 08-23-2010 at 10:44 PM.
08-23-2010, 10:46 PM   #11
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This idea has caused some raised eyebrows, not from the proposition but the way it has been proposed. There is always the ability to upload any image to a personal user gallery, and post to mini-challenges. There are multiple fora one can utilise to gain feedback and build on skill.

I personally see little merit in a 'beginner's gallery'.
Photo Critique would be the place to go for someone wanting personalised constructive criticism - plus there's the thread rating system...
08-23-2010, 10:57 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jools Quote
NiftyFifty, I don't think having a gallery solely for "beginners" would be beneficial to any of the "beginners" in the long run. Galleries for all, already exist across PF.
My understanding of the Excusive Gallery is that anyone could add their images then approved like any other valid gallery. I believe it is an attempt at improving on PPG right here on PF (see PPG threads here on PF for background).
The Exclusive Gallery is not excluding but inclusive.

So anybody from "beginners" to whatever is deemed "professionals or hobbyists with pro-level skills" can offer their shots to be accepted or declined. Perhaps you may be looking for an explanation of why a shot was accepted or declined. And that could be helpful but that is a different issue. But I believe that just looking at othersí accepted work and responses to it, is a learning process.

If for some reason any of the "beginners" feels overwhelmed by the work posted in the Exclusive Gallery that may be understandable to some degree (I felt a little intimidated early on about posting pictures in general), then there are other venues on this forum to post pictures and receive responses. Many take advantage of this.
Maybe it's something to think about.

As mentioned earlier by others, there are Monthly contests, challenges, themes, the Critique section and others beyond the Gallery, World Pentax Day, and the Exclusive Gallery where members can post their images and receive a response. One may debate the quality of photos or responses but they come from all sorts of photographic backgrounds. And therein lies the beauty.
Fear not in posting in these other sections because the learning will be more genuine and honest than simply posting in a gallery where all are "beginners."

I have not posted to the Exclusive Gallery YET because I donít feel I am to that level, but have taken advantage of the other image posting sections on PF. The return has been great for my personal photographic growth and so has my learning of what others are doing.
Perhaps that is a path you may want to consider after all. Good Luck.
Jools, thank you for giving some real feedback and not just jumping down my throat.

You hit the nail on the head about beginners feeling overwhelmed when looking at the work of more advanced photographers. I can only speak for myself, but it is very intimidating and I know I can't compete with them, but at the same time I don't think it's wrong for less experienced photographers to want to be recognized, more formally, for the good work they do, too.

It's just that something about the nature of the exclusive gallery that reeks of elitism and separation to me. Before the exclusive gallery was implemented, everyone was on the same ground. Sure, there were a lot of photographers that were (and still are) amazing, but other than the accolades given in the PYP sub-forums, nobody was officially elevated over anybody else. That's not the case anymore, and I just personally feel some kind of way (that I haven't quite figured out) about it.

At any rate, thanks for your reply and I'll consider your suggestions.
08-23-2010, 11:17 PM   #13
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I voted "maybe". This is why. It seems to me that the real merit for those who are beginning their way in photography or those who are somewhat experienced but decided to start in a new genre (e.g. someone like me who never shot in studio and who would be very much a noob if they decided to start trying themselves in the studio work) is in communication with their peers. So, suppose I post a picture and it gets accepted in a gallery, be it Pentax Photo Gallery, Pentax Forums Exclusive Gallery or that gallery that you propose, NiftyFifty. What does it really tell me? It only tells me that so few people who are in charge of the gallery deemed my image worth publishing. Admittedly, having my pictures accepted in PPG is very pleasant, mostly to my ego. And again, admittedly, I am posting images to PEG in hope to be accepted some day. So, I could add a link to my pictures in PEG along with the link to PPG picture to my
personal blog. Or I could make some other PR use out of this fact.

But I maintain that the process and the discussion of one's photographs with one's fellows is much more fruitful to one's growth. The same goes about the process of trying to figure out what too shoot or which pictures to choose for submission to the gallery.

Being rather new on this forum, I have yet to figure out which section is the best in terms of what I stated above. But it seems from the start that I will manage to find this section and enjoy being a part of it.

With great respect to your effort.

Boris (also a beginner).
08-23-2010, 11:29 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
This idea has caused some raised eyebrows, not from the proposition but the way it has been proposed. There is always the ability to upload any image to a personal user gallery, and post to mini-challenges. There are multiple fora one can utilise to gain feedback and build on skill.

I personally see little merit in a 'beginner's gallery'.
Photo Critique would be the place to go for someone wanting personalised constructive criticism - plus there's the thread rating system...
I'm not trying to offend when I write this, but the question was posed to beginning photographers. If you're not a beginner, the question wasn't for you.

Personally, I don't see the use of uploading to a user gallery that will get few views when I have a blog, which includes a gallery section, that receives an average of just over 2,000 real visits every month, from all over the world, according to my web analytics software.

I swear I have had the worst luck with the mini-challenges and monthly contests. So far, they have either not been on topics that interest me, or have been on interesting topics but were not doable for me at the time. So, I've been trying, but am not doing very well with those sections. The photo critique section seems weak. There are so many threads - not including the brand new ones - that have a low number of response critiques. I know I would become very frustrated at the lack of feedback, so I'm not inclined to submit anything just to spare myself the aggravation.

What I do here is mainly information gathering and drooling over other people's fantastic photos. I'll read something and then try it on my own when I get the chance, which lately hasn't been much since I've been flaring and not feeling very well. I'm physically uncomfortable and frustrated that I can't get out and do what I want to do. That might be coming through in my responses and making me seem to have a bad attitude, but I'm really not like that. So, my apologies if I said anything that offended you, because I had no intention of doing so.
08-23-2010, 11:32 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Boris Quote
I voted "maybe". This is why. It seems to me that the real merit for those who are beginning their way in photography or those who are somewhat experienced but decided to start in a new genre (e.g. someone like me who never shot in studio and who would be very much a noob if they decided to start trying themselves in the studio work) is in communication with their peers. So, suppose I post a picture and it gets accepted in a gallery, be it Pentax Photo Gallery, Pentax Forums Exclusive Gallery or that gallery that you propose, NiftyFifty. What does it really tell me? It only tells me that so few people who are in charge of the gallery deemed my image worth publishing. Admittedly, having my pictures accepted in PPG is very pleasant, mostly to my ego. And again, admittedly, I am posting images to PEG in hope to be accepted some day. So, I could add a link to my pictures in PEG along with the link to PPG picture to my
personal blog. Or I could make some other PR use out of this fact.

But I maintain that the process and the discussion of one's photographs with one's fellows is much more fruitful to one's growth. The same goes about the process of trying to figure out what too shoot or which pictures to choose for submission to the gallery.

Being rather new on this forum, I have yet to figure out which section is the best in terms of what I stated above. But it seems from the start that I will manage to find this section and enjoy being a part of it.

With great respect to your effort.

Boris (also a beginner).
Boris, thank you for your insight. You made some really good points that I hadn't considered before. Thank you very much for responding.
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