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05-30-2011, 04:28 AM   #16
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FWIW, I don't have a problem with the action. I have been a mod on another camera forum as acxtive if not more so than this one. It is a thankless task. If you have a problem then try asking the mod concerned rather than voicing off in open forum.

I have seen a case such as this so many times. Somebody sounds off against someone and the thread is closed for good reason. So the person starts another thread to conyinue, when that gets closed they try again etc. Often trying to make their post look all innocent. In this case, it seems to me that the person was not talking about grey imports but B+H again.

Kim

05-30-2011, 04:45 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kim C Quote
I have been a mod on another camera forum as acxtive if not more so than this one. It is a thankless task.
I fully see what you mean. But it can also be rewarding, to feel that you are contributing to a community. I certainly do feel both the "thankless" and "rewarding" aspects in voluntary work I do.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kim C Quote
If you have a problem then try asking the mod concerned rather than voicing off in open forum.
I have contacted the moderators more than once. No reply. Also, note that my OP wasn't about my issue. It was about the closing of someone else's thread. I only mentioned my situation as a side remark.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kim C Quote
I have seen a case such as this so many times.
I'm not sure about what case you are talking about. You haven't seen my post that was deleted so probably you are talking about Wheatfield?

QuoteOriginally posted by Kim C Quote
Somebody sounds off against someone and the thread is closed for good reason. So the person starts another thread to conyinue, when that gets closed they try again etc.
I don't think that's what happened here. Wheatfield didn't "sound off" against someone. He had an opinion and was trying to help others by sharing it. There was no need for anyone to get offended. If someone felt they needed to set fact straights they should have done it. But there was no need to stop pointless bashing because the latter wasn't happening.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kim C Quote
In this case, it seems to me that the person was not talking about grey imports but B+H again.
It "seems" to you? And that is enough for you to condone the closing of the thread? I don't think an assumption is sufficient justification to close a thread.

What about the moderator suggesting that an "international warranty / grey market" discussion is held without mentioning any store names? That would make sense, as the rules are not specific to one store. AFAIC, that would have been a good way forward, for those who are overly sensitive about B&H being talked about.

Last edited by Class A; 05-30-2011 at 05:00 AM.
05-30-2011, 04:49 AM - 1 Like   #18
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In reality the issue is purchasing from a foreign company (any of them) whether its buying from us when you dont live there or buying from canada when you do
Warranty has a value its up to the purchaser to decide what that is
They should just be aware of the pitfalls
As it sit ive had my say
So has wheat
And others
Buyer beware is a good rule of thimn
(be aware i think bh and adorama are both good companies and if i lived in the us they would be my first choice
Still are for some things
I just do risk assesment before i buy based on where i live
05-30-2011, 05:04 AM   #19
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Eddie1960, I value your contributions, but please note that this thread is about the merit of a moderator decision. I'm concerned that if it is taken off-topic that it will be closed.

05-30-2011, 05:05 AM   #20
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We won't discuss this decision further, neither in public or amongst ourselves, as this issue is considered closed by the moderation team, FYI.

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05-30-2011, 05:06 AM   #21
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i've had my say on both i'll shut up
05-30-2011, 05:45 AM   #22
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The first line of your OP said Why is a thread like "Defining Grey Market" closed?

I was replyng to your question. I can't comment on something that wasn't in that post

Am I not entitled to express my opinion? If you wish me to respect your opinion , does it not work the other way round as well even if it is different?

Kim


QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I'm not sure about what case you are talking about. You haven't seen my post that was deleted so probably you are talking about Wheatfield?


05-30-2011, 07:30 AM - 4 Likes   #23
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The fact that the original poster felt he had to reopen the discussion in a closed thread via a new thread, rather than just quietly asking the mod "Why?" maybe tells me all I need to know about the intent of the closed thread. This has actually happened a few times lately. A mod closes a thread and states that the discussion is closed and yet one of the people involved in said thread, usually the original posted, but not always, for some reason just can't leave it alone.

This is a discussion board. It's open but it belongs to certain people. They run it. They moderate it. It is NOT a democracy run business. If they feel a discussion has gotten out of hand, or a poster has, they have a perfect right to close said thread as they please, and they don't need to even explain why. The fact that they nearly always do is a courtesy thing.

I've seen several posts and threads here in the past that have been absolutely aimed at causing a disturbance. Usually it's someone speaking up with a complaint that one of the sponsors here hasn't done something fast enough to suit them, or hasn't done what the original poster wanted maybe at all. 90% of the time the store in question actually hasn't done a thing wrong, according to their policy. Or maybe they're trying to help but they're just not open for a day or two so the matter gets tabled and that's just not prompt enough service for the person posting so they bring the matter here basically yelling at the store via post trying to force them to do what they want a little faster.

Yes, posts like these get closed and with good reason. These stores contribute a large chunk of change that enables this forum to operate. Yes, maybe the next time a person who has demonstrated a willingness to start a controversy starts a thread it just may get closed too. Why? Probably because the mods realize that it's likely to be more of the same, that said "helpful" post is in reality just an excuse to vent some more, snipe a bit more at a store under the pretext of a new subject, or more likely an attempt to make them look like evil overlords when really they don't owe anyone here SQUAT in terms of allowing just anything to be posted all the time in the name of democracy, fairness, or whatever.

If there is one thing I've learned about being on forums like this it's that there is ALWAYS someone there ready to second guess the moderators, to challenge their authority in every which way to do their job, to needle them, the people who run the place over them, and whatever sponsors the board might have if any.

No offense, but no one has the right to do that. This is a paid board, one that accepts donations, yes, but a busy one that probably needs those sponsors to survive. Starting discussions grousing at the sponsors, the mods, etc, isn't going to do anything but irritate the powers that be, and cause them to be closed down. Put yourself in their shoes for a moment. Think about the fact that they do have a large bill to pay every month just so they can keep this place going, and DON'T okay?

It's not "fair" for them to close posts? How about it's not "fair" for any of us to be attacking them for not allowing their sponsors to be the subject of said kind of posts. For not allowing the supposedly "helpful" advice posts to end up hurting the very people who's support is likely the backbone of this board's finances.

I've been on both sides of the situation. I've been a normal person on a board and I've been a mod/owner of a board. The latter? It's not a position I'd take again in a million years because literally every time I've taken the job someone has used it as an excuse to take shots at me. Even when I owned the board and had the perfect right to say "Enough please!" it was never "okay" with a certain contingent of people who were determined to cause trouble amongst us.

Judging by the bulging folder of saved threads that I've printed in the time I've been here I cannot help but realize how valuable an asset this board is to Pentax people. I cannot help but realize what an enormous task it is to run this place, moderate it, fund it and make it the excellent site it is today.

Bottom line I want it to stay and anyone who comes here simply to rock the boat and cause trouble? I don't have the slightest problem with the mods shutting them down whenever necessary. I don't care how politely they go about it, or what pretext they use, if the mods think they're going to cause a problem, then so be it, it's THEIR call to make, and I support that right.

(Even if it means getting my arse banned for coming out and actually saying all this!)

MHO
05-30-2011, 07:41 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
Yes, posts like these get closed and with good reason. These stores contribute a large chunk of change that enables this forum to operate. Yes, maybe the next time a person who has demonstrated a willingness to start a controversy starts a thread it just may get closed too. Why? Probably because the mods realize that it's likely to be more of the same, that said "helpful" post is in reality just an excuse to vent some more, snipe a bit more at a store under the pretext of a new subject, or more likely an attempt to make them look like evil overlords when really they don't owe anyone here SQUAT in terms of allowing just anything to be posted all the time in the name of democracy, fairness, or whatever. If there is one thing I've learned about being on forums like this it's that there is ALWAYS someone there ready to second guess the moderators, to challenge their authority in every which way to do their job, to needle them, the people who run the place over them, and whatever sponsors the board might have if any.
Nice post! First off, I fully back all the moderator decisions, as they've been through this many times and know how to act, and how stuff might end up. The thing some people don't realize (still) is that PF isn't all about the money. Sure, we have sponsors, and we're dumping a lot of money into site improvements, but we don't close threads just to keep affiliate sales high (in fact, the moderators don't even know how they work). We do, however, close threads when volunteers (Chuck and Henry) who are willing to spend the time to help you guys and end up being disrespected, as well as other members of the board. It's that simple.

Adam
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05-30-2011, 07:43 AM   #25
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Well said! I fully agree with you.

Kim

QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
The fact that the original poster felt he had to reopen the discussion in a closed thread via a new thread, rather than just quietly asking the mod "Why?" maybe tells me all I need to know about the intent of the closed thread. This has actually happened a few times lately. A mod closes a thread and states that the discussion is closed and yet one of the people involved in said thread, usually the original posted, but not always, for some reason just can't leave it alone.

This is a discussion board. It's open but it belongs to certain people. They run it. They moderate it. It is NOT a democracy run business. If they feel a discussion has gotten out of hand, or a poster has, they have a perfect right to close said thread as they please, and they don't need to even explain why. The fact that they nearly always do is a courtesy thing.

I've seen several posts and threads here in the past that have been absolutely aimed at causing a disturbance. Usually it's someone speaking up with a complaint that one of the sponsors here hasn't done something fast enough to suit them, or hasn't done what the original poster wanted maybe at all. 90% of the time the store in question actually hasn't done a thing wrong, according to their policy. Or maybe they're trying to help but they're just not open for a day or two so the matter gets tabled and that's just not prompt enough service for the person posting so they bring the matter here basically yelling at the store via post trying to force them to do what they want a little faster.

Yes, posts like these get closed and with good reason. These stores contribute a large chunk of change that enables this forum to operate. Yes, maybe the next time a person who has demonstrated a willingness to start a controversy starts a thread it just may get closed too. Why? Probably because the mods realize that it's likely to be more of the same, that said "helpful" post is in reality just an excuse to vent some more, snipe a bit more at a store under the pretext of a new subject, or more likely an attempt to make them look like evil overlords when really they don't owe anyone here SQUAT in terms of allowing just anything to be posted all the time in the name of democracy, fairness, or whatever.

If there is one thing I've learned about being on forums like this it's that there is ALWAYS someone there ready to second guess the moderators, to challenge their authority in every which way to do their job, to needle them, the people who run the place over them, and whatever sponsors the board might have if any.

No offense, but no one has the right to do that. This is a paid board, one that accepts donations, yes, but a busy one that probably needs those sponsors to survive. Starting discussions grousing at the sponsors, the mods, etc, isn't going to do anything but irritate the powers that be, and cause them to be closed down. Put yourself in their shoes for a moment. Think about the fact that they do have a large bill to pay every month just so they can keep this place going, and DON'T okay?

It's not "fair" for them to close posts? How about it's not "fair" for any of us to be attacking them for not allowing their sponsors to be the subject of said kind of posts. For not allowing the supposedly "helpful" advice posts to end up hurting the very people who's support is likely the backbone of this board's finances.

I've been on both sides of the situation. I've been a normal person on a board and I've been a mod/owner of a board. The latter? It's not a position I'd take again in a million years because literally every time I've taken the job someone has used it as an excuse to take shots at me. Even when I owned the board and had the perfect right to say "Enough please!" it was never "okay" with a certain contingent of people who were determined to cause trouble amongst us.

Judging by the bulging folder of saved threads that I've printed in the time I've been here I cannot help but realize how valuable an asset this board is to Pentax people. I cannot help but realize what an enormous task it is to run this place, moderate it, fund it and make it the excellent site it is today.

Bottom line I want it to stay and anyone who comes here simply to rock the boat and cause trouble? I don't have the slightest problem with the mods shutting them down whenever necessary. I don't care how politely they go about it, or what pretext they use, if the mods think they're going to cause a problem, then so be it, it's THEIR call to make, and I support that right.

(Even if it means getting my arse banned for coming out and actually saying all this!)

MHO
05-30-2011, 08:02 AM - 1 Like   #26
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I'm sorry I was so blunt, probably too much so, but this is something that just really bugs me when I see it. Everyone here is so darned helpful and there is so much pertinent info. I love coming here. But people questioning every little thing all the time, the nit picking, the seemingly eternal complaints about the board, how it's run, Pentax, their gear, it gets truly old sometimes.

I sometimes think we maybe just need to kick back, stop being so fussy and appreciate this place a little more. All this, it just takes energy away from what we could be doing on here in terms of more positive things.

That's all...
05-31-2011, 02:34 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by dadipentak Quote
I just read the thread and agree that the mod's action is perplexing.
Especially when the last post in that thread is the site OWNER asking a question, that can never be answered!
05-31-2011, 03:11 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
The fact that the original poster felt he had to reopen the discussion in a closed thread via a new thread, rather than just quietly asking the mod "Why?" maybe tells me all I need to know about the intent of the closed thread.
Have you actually tried asking the mods why after a post or thread disappears?
In my experience, it doesn't help to clarify things at all.

QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
I'm sorry I was so blunt, probably too much so, but this is something that just really bugs me when I see it.
I agree with you, but on the other hand, sometimes it is justified.

QuoteOriginally posted by ClassA:
I have contacted the moderators more than once. No reply. Also, note that my OP wasn't about my issue. It was about the closing of someone else's thread. I only mentioned my situation as a side remark.
This is what I really found disheartening about the whole thing. Yes I understand that they're volunteers and can't be seen to be criticised in public, however, I've found that after you've had posts deleted it can be very difficult to understand exactly why, since you typically get a one line reason.

If the user can't seek clarification (and actually receive it), then you may just end up with the unfortunate situation where they repeat the past mistake, although the rest of their post may have been useful.
05-31-2011, 03:43 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kim C Quote
Am I not entitled to express my opinion?\
Of course you are.
I'm sorry if I somehow created the impression that I thought otherwise.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kim C Quote
If you wish me to respect your opinion , does it not work the other way round as well even if it is different?
I respect your opinion. My reply to your post was intended to give you more facts so that you may form another opinion.

All good, AFAIC.

P.S.: Thanks heaps for your Pentax Manuals site. Some gems made available through it. Much appreciated!
05-31-2011, 03:59 PM   #30
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I've asked a mod or two a question off board a few times during my time here. I've never once had them not reply. Actually they were usually pretty prompt about it.
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