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05-29-2011, 06:26 PM - 2 Likes   #1
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Unjustified Closing of Threads?

Why is a thread like "Defining Grey Market" closed?

Apparently the OP intended to give buyers a "heads up" regarding warranty concerns. Apparently, one poster already found the thread useful.

Is it not a good idea to provide advice to readers of this forum? Were any forum policies broken and how so?

Marc's justification was
"The thread in question was deemed to be counterproductive. I'm closing this one before it reaches the same state."
What does "counterproductive" mean in this context? What was the purpose that the thread ran counter to? How could the new "Defining Grey Market" be in danger of running against the same (or another?) purpose?

Why was the thread closed before it became problematic?

There are tons of threads which have become unproductive, veered off the initial course, are counterproductive to something, etc., yet they aren't closed.

I believe I'm not the only one who would appreciate an explanation of why the "Defining Grey Market" was closed preemptively.

Roughly three days ago I created a post which also linked to the "Pentax Guarantee issues for International buyers" thread, just like "Defining Grey Market" did. It was deleted and I was banned from the respective thread for five days. I've asked the moderators for clarification as to what the reason was and haven't received a reply to date.

I guess, therefore, my question is two-fold:
  1. Were these moderator actions justified?
  2. Should moderators explain their actions?
I think if 2. doesn't happen, users will find it very hard to understand what is expected from them.


Last edited by Class A; 05-29-2011 at 09:19 PM.
05-29-2011, 07:24 PM - 2 Likes   #2
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I add to Class A that I felt that the thread was productive and did not go into nasty/fruitless issues. There was in my opinion some grounds to keep the thread open.

On the other hand, I may understand the position of some moderators who do not want the threads in this forum tobe come like another forum.

It is a difficult exercise for the moderators...
05-29-2011, 07:48 PM - 2 Likes   #3
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With the first post or two starting to veer off course, or get counterproductive, then a closing is warranted, but IMO, closing something "before" things get out of hand isn't cool at all. That's like singling out people and saying, well this guy started a bad thread before, so I just know this one is going to eventually get bad (even though it isn't yet) so I will close it before that happens. Not cool at all.
05-29-2011, 09:04 PM - 1 Like   #4
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Does anyone else see that elephant standing in the middle of the room?

05-29-2011, 10:37 PM   #5
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Yes, thread closed here too...
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/ask-b-h-photo/145285-b-h-has-thread-closed.html

because...
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/1518774-post14.html

Unproductive ????
= won't make 'ABC Co' any money.... ???
= no sputum... ??? (unproductive vs productive cough)
= Has no issue. (as in my stud dog has been unproductive this season... He's a fox terrier if anyone's interested.)...????

All a mystery to me....
But a ban for asking for clarification seems over the top.

Last edited by bobD; 05-29-2011 at 11:13 PM. Reason: added missing apostrophe... ulp..!
05-29-2011, 10:37 PM - 1 Like   #6
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One some forums, as soon as the moderators have to go out of their way to send a notice, they start banning people for causing trouble You should be glad we don't have that policy here!
05-29-2011, 11:12 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
One some forums, as soon as the moderators have to go out of their way to send a notice, they start banning people for causing trouble You should be glad we don't have that policy here!
Hear hear, well done Adam.
Appreciate any and all efforts to support free and open debate.


but what is 'unproductive' exactly..? just so I don't go posting any more 'unproductive' threads....

05-30-2011, 01:16 AM   #8
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The thread in queston imho was not unproductive and im fact had very relevant information for anyone buying product from outside their home country not ibfo comfortable to some people but true nonetheless
Open debate apparently is selective
You guys do an amazing job adam but i think you were off base here
05-30-2011, 01:41 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
One some forums, as soon as the moderators have to go out of their way to send a notice, they start banning people for causing trouble
Moderators go "out of their way" when they send notices?

Anyhow, my questions revolved about the question whether they "had to" send out a notice or close a thread. Many seem to agree with me that there was no urgency regarding closing the thread and I still don't understand why my post had to be deleted.

QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
You should be glad we don't have that policy here!
Pentaxforums provides many reasons to be glad. The absence of the totally unacceptable policy you mention is not of them.

Just as an example for the type of reasoning you used: If your government would suddenly triple taxes for no good reason and without justification, how would you like a response to your complaint along the lines of "In other countries, people are sent to prison if they speak up, so you should be very glad that we just triple tax you."?

Your government should give you some rationale that you can relate to (even if you don't support it), but pointing to a bad example and claiming that things could be much worse is not a good justification, or is it?
05-30-2011, 01:50 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Moderators go "out of their way" when they send notices?
Some places, they do! There was a thread posted a few months back where a member signed up on another board to report a scammer, and was promptly kicked out for posting such nonsense despite his valid claims

The rationale is simple: the topic was closed twice in a different forum, and it's going to get closed again if you try posting it elsewhere. If you think that is unfair, then I would turn to the PM system or an online chat to discuss it with those who are interested in hearing more.

We're perfectly aware of the fact that some things suck (Pentax's warranty service, marketing, and other things), but complaining about them in circles isn't going to fix anything. And from what I hear from B&H, sometimes you have to go through 6 copies of a Canon lens before you finally get one that works right- so how bad can all this be?

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05-30-2011, 02:07 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by v5planet Quote
Does anyone else see that elephant standing in the middle of the room?
Of course we do...
But that doesn't matter because this is just another one of those: "there is no solution" type of problems.

I'm reminded of the time when my optometrist first put a contact lens into my eye(when I was a kid). It was all irritated and tearing, and she looked over at me and said... "you have to suffer to be good looking these days don't you!"

But look on the bright side...
At least we are aloud to talk about it
If this was DPReview, this thread would of been closed also.

Last edited by JohnBee; 05-30-2011 at 03:09 AM.
05-30-2011, 02:16 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
There was a thread posted a few months back where a member signed up on another board to report a scammer, and was promptly kicked out for posting such nonsense despite his valid claims
But that cannot be a benchmark for pentaxforums.com, can it? There is a lot of terrible stuff happening in a lot of places all the time, but I'm not sure why this is relevant for this discussion.


QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
The rationale is simple: the topic was closed twice in a different forum, and it's going to get closed again if you try posting it elsewhere.
I won't try to post it again, I never tried to post this topic, and my post to the thread from which I got banned (and am still am banned) wasn't a repost of that topic.

My issue (others my have other issues) is not that I cannot repost this topic. I don't care whether something is called "grey market" or not.

My issue is that I don't understand why my post was deleted, I was banned and why the thread I mention in my OP was closed. What is the problem if forum users try to help each other by trying to give good advice? If someone (including the moderators) feel that wrong advice is been given, they can provide their viewpoint. But why stop a poster from trying to inform others and share advice?


QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
We're perfectly aware of the fact that some things suck (Pentax's warranty service, marketing, and other things), but complaining about them in circles isn't going to fix anything.
I'm not sure whether you are addressing me, but I wasn't complaining about any of the above. I didn't complain about anything else in circles either. In the post that was deleted, I mainly informed my fellow Kiwis that they could get a local warranty by applying for a "International Warranty" card. I also linked to the B&H thread with the respective discussion and another related thread. Apparently something was wrong about this. But I didn't "complain in circles".

Regarding other posters you may refer to who have been "complaining in circles", what would you suggest they do instead? Can complaints not be successful at times? Should they accept things as they are in silence? Isn't venting part of the features a forum provides? No one is forced to read certain threads. I surely know which ones to stay away from.

Last edited by Class A; 05-30-2011 at 02:29 AM.
05-30-2011, 02:42 AM   #13
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I guess the post was deleted for the same reason that the others threads have been closed. It probably seemed like the same thing all over again.

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05-30-2011, 02:53 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I guess the post was deleted for the same reason that the others threads have been closed. It probably seemed like the same thing all over again.
I can assure you, it wasn't the same thing all over again.

The moderator who issued the ban apparently thought so but that clearly was a mistake. Not a biggie, mistakes happen.

I would have appreciated a response to my message disputing the moderator decision, and thus a potential acknowledgement of the error, but at this stage I don't have much hope of getting a response from the moderator(s) anymore.
05-30-2011, 03:21 AM   #15
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I just read the thread and agree that the mod's action is perplexing.
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