News New Marketplace Policy Regarding Payments

**Pepe Guitarra** · 10-09-2012, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by jhaji

Is there a reason for implementing the new rule? Has there been a surge in ripoffs lately?

I am not sure my anwser fits here, but in another forum, where I posted want-to-buy a lens, I got an offer from a member asking $925 for it, I offered $600 and "he"settled on $680 (first flag), but I would pay the Paypal fees. When I asked for feedback (only positive feedback is left in that forum) he said he had none (second flag), but he had plenty on Ebay under the same name. I went to Ebay and send couple of question through eBay while maintaining communication through the Forum. When I asked if he had received a question from Ebay he responded, yes, I just anwered your question (third flag). Few minutes later, eBay emailed me saying that the account I had communicated with had been hijacked and that no transaction was recommended. I reported to the mods and they banned the guy. This person had hijacked the Ebay account and used the same name on the Forum, did the minimum postings and waited for the right person to commit fraud. The strange coincidence is that I got another response the same day from this forum. I checked the feedback and all seem right. There were emails and photos sent, etc. However, I did some more research and was almost ready to send money, when the request came to my email with a link to click on, when I clicked, the password and name for Paypal was required. I closed it, I never go those places through a link. I went to my account and there was no request. Immediately, i suspended the deal, reported to Paypal and to Ebay who are trying to match if that is the same person. I did not report to the Mods here giving the benefit of the doubt to the member. His account may have been hijacked too. This was about 10 days ago.

Docrwm · 10-09-2012, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by Pepe Guitarra

I am not sure my anwser fits here, but in another forum, where I posted want-to-buy a lens, I got an offer from a member asking $925 for it, I offered $600 and "he"settled on $680 (first flag), but I would pay the Paypal fees. When I asked for feedback (only positive feedback is left in that forum) he said he had none (second flag), but he had plenty on Ebay under the same name. I went to Ebay and send couple of question through eBay while maintaining communication through the Forum. When I asked if he had received a question from Ebay he responded, yes, I just anwered your question (third flag). Few minutes later, eBay emailed me saying that the account I had communicated with had been hijacked and that no transaction was recommended. I reported to the mods and they banned the guy. This person had hijacked the Ebay account and used the same name on the Forum, did the minimum postings and waited for the right person to commit fraud. The strange coincidence is that I got another response the same day from this forum. I checked the feedback and all seem right. There were emails and photos sent, etc. However, I did some more research and was almost ready to send money, when the request came to my email with a link to click on, when I clicked, the password and name for Paypal was required. I closed it, I never go those places through a link. I went to my account and there was no request. Immediately, i suspended the deal, reported to Paypal and to Ebay who are trying to match if that is the same person. I did not report to the Mods here giving the benefit of the doubt to the member. His account may have been hijacked too. This was about 10 days ago.

The Scam you relate is quite common on high-end watch forums. In those settings the average transaction is ~$5k with some as high as $50k. The stakes are very high and the potential profit for a few minutes of chatting, some effort to hijack an account, and some stolen pictures is very high indeed. My approach, after being burned on a forum where ONLY POSITIVE feedback was allowed

, is to do as you did and try to get some independent confirmation that I am dealing with the real owner of an item that is in the condition that they have stated. I had one such transaction that was going to be local, the guy said he was in town for a conference, so I arranged with my bank to allow us to use the meeting room they have to inspect the watch, the minute I mentioned meeting at my bank the guy stopped corresponding with me completely. Pretty clear sign he was a scumbag. On smaller purchases I am not as diligent I must admit but on larger ones it has paid off several times by preventing me from loosing a lot of money and feeling stupid again.

panoguy · 10-10-2012, 10:44 AM

Great new policy that mirrors my own.

For those Canadians about, I also stay away from any request for "Interac e-Transfers" for the same reason I've never dealt with anyone asking for a "gift" payment. Between Canadian banks, an Interac e-Transfer is an immediate debit from your account and you have almost no fraud protection. The only vaguely protective part is that the true name and home bank of the recipient are known to your bank (but not to you), but disputes are a rare and murky business, unlike Paypal.

Avoid Interac e-Transfers as well.

mee · 10-10-2012, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by Adam

Sellers typically ask for gift (also known as personal) payments in order to avoid being charged a transaction fee by PayPal. By sending gift payments, buyers surrender their right to PayPal Buyer Protection for that particular transaction and consequently limit the number of things that can be done in the event of a dispute.

Are you sure the PayPal Buyer Protection is in effect for items purchased on Pentax Forums? There is typically no invoice and no mention of address on any official document (invoice, receipt, etc) that Paypal seemingly would need in order to confirm a transaction took place for the item(s) in question.

On a site such as Ebay or Amazon Marketplace, where these things ARE generated, it is an easy case and the PP Buyer Protection specifically is in effect. But for PF personal exchanges.. are you sure?

vonBaloney · 10-10-2012, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by mee

Are you sure the PayPal Buyer Protection is in effect for items purchased on Pentax Forums? There is typically no invoice and no mention of address on any official document (invoice, receipt, etc) that Paypal seemingly would need in order to confirm a transaction took place for the item(s) in question.

On a site such as Ebay or Amazon Marketplace, where these things ARE generated, it is an easy case and the PP Buyer Protection specifically is in effect. But for PF personal exchanges.. are you sure?

For sellers, they can create an invoice if they like, that's what I do. And as a buyer, you could request the seller to make one -- it is simple on Paypal. But some people have posted in the past that they've needed to dispute something they didn't receive and they just referred the PayPal people to the relevant marketplace thread here (and that was accepted). In general with Paypal, the buyer is protected more than the seller...

**Clinton** · 10-10-2012, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by mee

Are you sure the PayPal Buyer Protection is in effect for items purchased on Pentax Forums? There is typically no invoice and no mention of address on any official document (invoice, receipt, etc) that Paypal seemingly would need in order to confirm a transaction took place for the item(s) in question.

On a site such as Ebay or Amazon Marketplace, where these things ARE generated, it is an easy case and the PP Buyer Protection specifically is in effect. But for PF personal exchanges.. are you sure?

Pretty sure. Paypal really doesn't care what it is, if the buyer gets it, hates it, and returns it under the right conditions, the seller will accept the return and refund the money.

Blue · 10-10-2012, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by mee

Are you sure the PayPal Buyer Protection is in effect for items purchased on Pentax Forums? There is typically no invoice and no mention of address on any official document (invoice, receipt, etc) that Paypal seemingly would need in order to confirm a transaction took place for the item(s) in question.

On a site such as Ebay or Amazon Marketplace, where these things ARE generated, it is an easy case and the PP Buyer Protection specifically is in effect. But for PF personal exchanges.. are you sure?

There is protection. Both parties have confirmed addresses.

stormtech · 10-10-2012, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by Blue

There is protection. Both parties have confirmed addresses.

True - plus I always print the shipping label through PayPal so there is tracking/delivery confirmation.

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10-09-2012, 01:57 PM	#61
Pepe Guitarra Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,223	Originally posted by jhaji Is there a reason for implementing the new rule? Has there been a surge in ripoffs lately? I am not sure my anwser fits here, but in another forum, where I posted want-to-buy a lens, I got an offer from a member asking $925 for it, I offered $600 and "he"settled on $680 (first flag), but I would pay the Paypal fees. When I asked for feedback (only positive feedback is left in that forum) he said he had none (second flag), but he had plenty on Ebay under the same name. I went to Ebay and send couple of question through eBay while maintaining communication through the Forum. When I asked if he had received a question from Ebay he responded, yes, I just anwered your question (third flag). Few minutes later, eBay emailed me saying that the account I had communicated with had been hijacked and that no transaction was recommended. I reported to the mods and they banned the guy. This person had hijacked the Ebay account and used the same name on the Forum, did the minimum postings and waited for the right person to commit fraud. The strange coincidence is that I got another response the same day from this forum. I checked the feedback and all seem right. There were emails and photos sent, etc. However, I did some more research and was almost ready to send money, when the request came to my email with a link to click on, when I clicked, the password and name for Paypal was required. I closed it, I never go those places through a link. I went to my account and there was no request. Immediately, i suspended the deal, reported to Paypal and to Ebay who are trying to match if that is the same person. I did not report to the Mods here giving the benefit of the doubt to the member. His account may have been hijacked too. This was about 10 days ago.

10-09-2012, 02:02 PM	#62
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by Pepe Guitarra I am not sure my anwser fits here, but in another forum, where I posted want-to-buy a lens, I got an offer from a member asking $925 for it, I offered $600 and "he"settled on $680 (first flag), but I would pay the Paypal fees. When I asked for feedback (only positive feedback is left in that forum) he said he had none (second flag), but he had plenty on Ebay under the same name. I went to Ebay and send couple of question through eBay while maintaining communication through the Forum. When I asked if he had received a question from Ebay he responded, yes, I just anwered your question (third flag). Few minutes later, eBay emailed me saying that the account I had communicated with had been hijacked and that no transaction was recommended. I reported to the mods and they banned the guy. This person had hijacked the Ebay account and used the same name on the Forum, did the minimum postings and waited for the right person to commit fraud. The strange coincidence is that I got another response the same day from this forum. I checked the feedback and all seem right. There were emails and photos sent, etc. However, I did some more research and was almost ready to send money, when the request came to my email with a link to click on, when I clicked, the password and name for Paypal was required. I closed it, I never go those places through a link. I went to my account and there was no request. Immediately, i suspended the deal, reported to Paypal and to Ebay who are trying to match if that is the same person. I did not report to the Mods here giving the benefit of the doubt to the member. His account may have been hijacked too. This was about 10 days ago. The Scam you relate is quite common on high-end watch forums. In those settings the average transaction is ~$5k with some as high as $50k. The stakes are very high and the potential profit for a few minutes of chatting, some effort to hijack an account, and some stolen pictures is very high indeed. My approach, after being burned on a forum where ONLY POSITIVE feedback was allowed , is to do as you did and try to get some independent confirmation that I am dealing with the real owner of an item that is in the condition that they have stated. I had one such transaction that was going to be local, the guy said he was in town for a conference, so I arranged with my bank to allow us to use the meeting room they have to inspect the watch, the minute I mentioned meeting at my bank the guy stopped corresponding with me completely. Pretty clear sign he was a scumbag. On smaller purchases I am not as diligent I must admit but on larger ones it has paid off several times by preventing me from loosing a lot of money and feeling stupid again.

10-10-2012, 10:44 AM	#63
panoguy Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,327	Great new policy that mirrors my own. For those Canadians about, I also stay away from any request for "Interac e-Transfers" for the same reason I've never dealt with anyone asking for a "gift" payment. Between Canadian banks, an Interac e-Transfer is an immediate debit from your account and you have almost no fraud protection. The only vaguely protective part is that the true name and home bank of the recipient are known to your bank (but not to you), but disputes are a rare and murky business, unlike Paypal. Avoid Interac e-Transfers as well.

10-10-2012, 08:17 PM	#64
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by Adam Sellers typically ask for gift (also known as personal) payments in order to avoid being charged a transaction fee by PayPal. By sending gift payments, buyers surrender their right to PayPal Buyer Protection for that particular transaction and consequently limit the number of things that can be done in the event of a dispute. Are you sure the PayPal Buyer Protection is in effect for items purchased on Pentax Forums? There is typically no invoice and no mention of address on any official document (invoice, receipt, etc) that Paypal seemingly would need in order to confirm a transaction took place for the item(s) in question. On a site such as Ebay or Amazon Marketplace, where these things ARE generated, it is an easy case and the PP Buyer Protection specifically is in effect. But for PF personal exchanges.. are you sure?

10-10-2012, 08:28 PM	#65
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Originally posted by mee Are you sure the PayPal Buyer Protection is in effect for items purchased on Pentax Forums? There is typically no invoice and no mention of address on any official document (invoice, receipt, etc) that Paypal seemingly would need in order to confirm a transaction took place for the item(s) in question. On a site such as Ebay or Amazon Marketplace, where these things ARE generated, it is an easy case and the PP Buyer Protection specifically is in effect. But for PF personal exchanges.. are you sure? For sellers, they can create an invoice if they like, that's what I do. And as a buyer, you could request the seller to make one -- it is simple on Paypal. But some people have posted in the past that they've needed to dispute something they didn't receive and they just referred the PayPal people to the relevant marketplace thread here (and that was accepted). In general with Paypal, the buyer is protected more than the seller...

10-10-2012, 08:50 PM	#66
Clinton Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,910	Originally posted by mee Are you sure the PayPal Buyer Protection is in effect for items purchased on Pentax Forums? There is typically no invoice and no mention of address on any official document (invoice, receipt, etc) that Paypal seemingly would need in order to confirm a transaction took place for the item(s) in question. On a site such as Ebay or Amazon Marketplace, where these things ARE generated, it is an easy case and the PP Buyer Protection specifically is in effect. But for PF personal exchanges.. are you sure? Pretty sure. Paypal really doesn't care what it is, if the buyer gets it, hates it, and returns it under the right conditions, the seller will accept the return and refund the money.

10-10-2012, 08:52 PM	#67
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by mee Are you sure the PayPal Buyer Protection is in effect for items purchased on Pentax Forums? There is typically no invoice and no mention of address on any official document (invoice, receipt, etc) that Paypal seemingly would need in order to confirm a transaction took place for the item(s) in question. On a site such as Ebay or Amazon Marketplace, where these things ARE generated, it is an easy case and the PP Buyer Protection specifically is in effect. But for PF personal exchanges.. are you sure? There is protection. Both parties have confirmed addresses.

10-10-2012, 10:18 PM	#68
stormtech Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: In the boonies (NW Penna) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,744	Originally posted by Blue There is protection. Both parties have confirmed addresses. True - plus I always print the shipping label through PayPal so there is tracking/delivery confirmation.