News Politics & Religion Forum Closure

jsherman999 · 12-13-2012, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by normhead

...
I'd restrict folks to talking about the pictures they take without reference to what can and can't be done.

Wow, that's a very North-Korean-like directive.

Quote:

Or if they want to say they have an FF picture that couldn't have been taken with APS-c , then they should have made a reasonable effort to back it up with some images, that illustrate how hard they tried and couldn't get it done.

Another great use of moderator's time. "OK, who's on FF-claim example follow-up duty this week? Blue? We've got someone explaining equivalence in the DSLR forum, and they have not given examples!"

Quote:

Many of the beliefs expressed even in the camera section are posted by people who's religion is their camera brand or format.

Agreed. "aps-c is all anyone needs, because it's all I need!" is perhaps the most vexing religious dogma!

.

mccarvindh · 12-13-2012, 05:45 PM

Oh, no! I shall miss the forum. Oh well! If it is going, what can you do? I will miss contributions by people like Gene, Nesster, to name a few. I thought it was pretty easy to just ignore users (not necessarily using an ignore button).
Many a time when story breaks I would come and check here to see our good folks reaction. I think I learned quite a bit by lurking there. Can I give the religious affiliation poll one .....Sigh....last bump?!!

audiobomber · 12-13-2012, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by mccarvindh

Many a time when story breaks I would come and check here to see our good folks reaction. I think I learned quite a bit by lurking there.

Exactly!

jsherman999 · 12-13-2012, 08:15 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by audiobomber

Exactly!

Me too. It gave the forum some flavor. I don't know that it's a great idea to close it.

riff · 12-13-2012, 09:16 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

Can't really read it so I DK what actually transpired, but I also received a 30-day notice once for what felt to me like a pretty funny but harmless personal barb. The OP Reported the Reply, the Mod Team deemed the post a personal attack and sent me a PM and warning - and to this day I would call nonsense on the whole Report/Reprimand thing. Instead I just don't interact with that member any more. And I changed my tone - so I'm not banned.

Interestingly, his tone has moderated as well -

Last edited by Ash; Today at 02:01 PM

Oh my, I sure hate to see this.

It's one thing to nuke a post, quite a different matter to edit it IMHO.

altopiet · 12-13-2012, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by riff

Oh my, I sure hate to see this.

It's one thing to nuke a post, quite a different matter to edit it IMHO.

+1, this kind of censorship actually make me re-think why I actually pay to be here

lithos · 12-13-2012, 11:26 PM

Woo hoo! Burn, baby, burn!

I just signed back into post this.

audiobomber · 12-14-2012, 06:13 AM

Originally posted by riff

Oh my, I sure hate to see this.

It's one thing to nuke a post, quite a different matter to edit it IMHO.

This is tricky, but it worked out well for me. I got frustrated with one of the resident Pentax bashers and called him a troll. In my post there were several on-topic points too. A mod removed the offending phrase and warned me for my behaviour, but let the post stand. That was preferable to having the entire post deleted.

Tom S. · 12-14-2012, 06:41 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

This is tricky, but it worked out well for me. I got frustrated with one of the resident Pentax bashers and called him a troll. In my post there were several on-topic points too. A mod removed the offending phrase and warned me for my behaviour, but let the post stand. That was preferable to having the entire post deleted.

Exactly. Many times there are parts to a post that are valid and/or relevant, so in speaking for myself only, I will edit out the offending part of the post and let the rest remain. Censorship? Yup, sure is, but IMHO, removing an entire post for a one line violation is far worse.

normhead · 12-14-2012, 07:14 AM

Well just to reiterate, if you need to need to post negative information, most of which is fabrication anyway, to promote your point of view, you probably don't have a valid point of view. You're out to cause trouble.

Promote what you love, leave it to others to decide if it's for them. And certainly don't imply someone's photography is in someway lacking because they don't use your preferred brand or format.

altopiet · 12-14-2012, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by Tom S.

Exactly. Many times there are parts to a post that are valid and/or relevant, so in speaking for myself only, I will edit out the offending part of the post and let the rest remain. Censorship? Yup, sure is, but IMHO, removing an entire post for a one line violation is far worse.

If I were in the same position, I would rather have the post removed, with an explanation why, leaving me to decide whether to rephrase and post again or not.

MRRiley · 12-14-2012, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by altopiet

If I were in the same position, I would rather have the post removed, with an explanation why, leaving me to decide whether to rephrase and post again or not.

You can always go back into the post we "censored" and re-rephrase it yourself. As long as you don't commit another infraction you'll be fine.

Mike
PF Moderation Team

altopiet · 12-14-2012, 07:56 AM

What I don't get is why you would want to close it in the first place. It is like having the criminals behind bars so to speak, easy to monitor, and police, now you let them loose on the rest of the population to infect them with there untoward ways. Well you asked for it, it would be interesting to see where this will end.... you know how easy it is for a lot of other subjects in the off-Topic Forum, to get off the rails and for either politics or religion to be dragged into the discussion. If nobody report it, and you don't see it in time, it might harm the forum reputation...? At least one have the option to opt out of that part of the forum as it is now, if you are not interested in it, but now everyone will be exposed to it.

Blue · 12-14-2012, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

This is tricky, but it worked out well for me. I got frustrated with one of the resident Pentax bashers and called him a troll. In my post there were several on-topic points too. A mod removed the offending phrase and warned me for my behaviour, but let the post stand. That was preferable to having the entire post deleted.

Sometimes we ask the editing be done by the poster, but if it is a time constraint, we do it to try to prevent an escalation of insults etc. in a thread. If the I remember the thread correctly the guy you are referring to got himself permanently banned in part due to his thread and getting a Permanent ban at PF is relatively hard to do. Since moderation happens mostly in private most people don't usually know what happens to all parties involved and if someone gets a warning, it is possible the other party(ies) got one as well or even a major tune up.

Originally posted by altopiet

What I don't get is why you would want to close it in the first place. It is like having the criminals behind bars so to speak, easy to monitor, and police, now you let them loose on the rest of the population to infect them with there untoward ways. Well you asked for it, it would be interesting to see where this will end.... you know how easy it is for a lot of other subjects in the off-Topic Forum, to get off the rails and for either politics or religion to be dragged into the discussion. If nobody report it, and you don't see it in time, it might harm the forum reputation...? At least one have the option to opt out of that part of the forum as it is now, if you are not interested in it, but now everyone will be exposed to it.

Some of the stuff spills over into the other Forums anyway. There have been a few individuals get themselves with multiple infractions and in a few cases permanently banned due to P & R stuff. There have been a few individuals that tried to extort the Mods and Admins into moderating towards their Political views or they would stop being a Site Supporter. No one is going to be exposed to P & R when it is closed or they will be consequences and the posts will be deleted.

Parallax · 12-14-2012, 08:19 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by altopiet

What I don't get is why you would want to close it in the first place. It is like having the criminals behind bars so to speak, easy to monitor, and police, now you let them loose on the rest of the population to infect them with there untoward ways. Well you asked for it, it would be interesting to see where this will end.... you know how easy it is for a lot of other subjects in the off-Topic Forum, to get off the rails and for either politics or religion to be dragged into the discussion. If nobody report it, and you don't see it in time, it might harm the forum reputation...? At least one have the option to opt out of that part of the forum as it is now, if you are not interested in it, but now everyone will be exposed to it.

Christo, your point is well taken. We don't think it will be that big of an issue as the ones that are most likely to cause problems are the ones who post mostly, if not exclusively in P&R (that's not to say that all of those cause trouble), and several of them have made it clear that they don't intend to stick around once P&R is closed. There are enough of us (mods) on line throughout the day and night and enough members who, like us, want to keep things civil that maintaining an affable atmosphere here isn't going to be a problem.

I would like to address the issue of censorship. Yes, there is censorship, and here's why:
If you invited someone into your home and that person started talking rudely, swearing at or insulting you or your other guests, would you allow them to to continue unchecked? Would you let them go on, or censor them by reminding them of what is and isn't proper behavior in your house; and then, if they continued with the behavior, ask them yo leave? Well, this is Adam's house so he gets to decide what is and isn't acceptable. This is a private website that he allows and welcomes people to join and participate in. Everyone is welcome and encouraged to participate as long as it is done within the rules of the forum, and within the bounds of civility.

12-14-2012, 07:58 AM	#59
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by audiobomber This is tricky, but it worked out well for me. I got frustrated with one of the resident Pentax bashers and called him a troll. In my post there were several on-topic points too. A mod removed the offending phrase and warned me for my behaviour, but let the post stand. That was preferable to having the entire post deleted. Sometimes we ask the editing be done by the poster, but if it is a time constraint, we do it to try to prevent an escalation of insults etc. in a thread. If the I remember the thread correctly the guy you are referring to got himself permanently banned in part due to his thread and getting a Permanent ban at PF is relatively hard to do. Since moderation happens mostly in private most people don't usually know what happens to all parties involved and if someone gets a warning, it is possible the other party(ies) got one as well or even a major tune up. Originally posted by altopiet What I don't get is why you would want to close it in the first place. It is like having the criminals behind bars so to speak, easy to monitor, and police, now you let them loose on the rest of the population to infect them with there untoward ways. Well you asked for it, it would be interesting to see where this will end.... you know how easy it is for a lot of other subjects in the off-Topic Forum, to get off the rails and for either politics or religion to be dragged into the discussion. If nobody report it, and you don't see it in time, it might harm the forum reputation...? At least one have the option to opt out of that part of the forum as it is now, if you are not interested in it, but now everyone will be exposed to it. Some of the stuff spills over into the other Forums anyway. There have been a few individuals get themselves with multiple infractions and in a few cases permanently banned due to P & R stuff. There have been a few individuals that tried to extort the Mods and Admins into moderating towards their Political views or they would stop being a Site Supporter. No one is going to be exposed to P & R when it is closed or they will be consequences and the posts will be deleted. Last edited by Blue; 12-14-2012 at 08:05 AM.

12-14-2012, 08:19 AM - 1 Like	#60
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by altopiet What I don't get is why you would want to close it in the first place. It is like having the criminals behind bars so to speak, easy to monitor, and police, now you let them loose on the rest of the population to infect them with there untoward ways. Well you asked for it, it would be interesting to see where this will end.... you know how easy it is for a lot of other subjects in the off-Topic Forum, to get off the rails and for either politics or religion to be dragged into the discussion. If nobody report it, and you don't see it in time, it might harm the forum reputation...? At least one have the option to opt out of that part of the forum as it is now, if you are not interested in it, but now everyone will be exposed to it. Christo, your point is well taken. We don't think it will be that big of an issue as the ones that are most likely to cause problems are the ones who post mostly, if not exclusively in P&R (that's not to say that all of those cause trouble), and several of them have made it clear that they don't intend to stick around once P&R is closed. There are enough of us (mods) on line throughout the day and night and enough members who, like us, want to keep things civil that maintaining an affable atmosphere here isn't going to be a problem. I would like to address the issue of censorship. Yes, there is censorship, and here's why: If you invited someone into your home and that person started talking rudely, swearing at or insulting you or your other guests, would you allow them to to continue unchecked? Would you let them go on, or censor them by reminding them of what is and isn't proper behavior in your house; and then, if they continued with the behavior, ask them yo leave? Well, this is Adam's house so he gets to decide what is and isn't acceptable. This is a private website that he allows and welcomes people to join and participate in. Everyone is welcome and encouraged to participate as long as it is done within the rules of the forum, and within the bounds of civility. Last edited by Parallax; 12-14-2012 at 08:26 AM.

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12-13-2012, 04:46 PM	#46
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	Originally posted by normhead ... I'd restrict folks to talking about the pictures they take without reference to what can and can't be done. Wow, that's a very North-Korean-like directive. Quote: Or if they want to say they have an FF picture that couldn't have been taken with APS-c , then they should have made a reasonable effort to back it up with some images, that illustrate how hard they tried and couldn't get it done. Another great use of moderator's time. "OK, who's on FF-claim example follow-up duty this week? Blue? We've got someone explaining equivalence in the DSLR forum, and they have not given examples!" Quote: Many of the beliefs expressed even in the camera section are posted by people who's religion is their camera brand or format. Agreed. "aps-c is all anyone needs, because it's all I need!" is perhaps the most vexing religious dogma! .

12-13-2012, 05:45 PM	#47
mccarvindh Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ohio, USA/ India Photos: Gallery Posts: 478	Oh, no! I shall miss the forum. Oh well! If it is going, what can you do? I will miss contributions by people like Gene, Nesster, to name a few. I thought it was pretty easy to just ignore users (not necessarily using an ignore button). Many a time when story breaks I would come and check here to see our good folks reaction. I think I learned quite a bit by lurking there. Can I give the religious affiliation poll one .....Sigh....last bump?!!

12-13-2012, 08:13 PM	#48
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by mccarvindh Many a time when story breaks I would come and check here to see our good folks reaction. I think I learned quite a bit by lurking there. Exactly!

12-13-2012, 08:15 PM - 2 Likes	#49
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	Originally posted by audiobomber Exactly! Me too. It gave the forum some flavor. I don't know that it's a great idea to close it.

12-13-2012, 09:16 PM	#50
riff Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,408	Originally posted by monochrome Can't really read it so I DK what actually transpired, but I also received a 30-day notice once for what felt to me like a pretty funny but harmless personal barb. The OP Reported the Reply, the Mod Team deemed the post a personal attack and sent me a PM and warning - and to this day I would call nonsense on the whole Report/Reprimand thing. Instead I just don't interact with that member any more. And I changed my tone - so I'm not banned. Interestingly, his tone has moderated as well - Last edited by Ash; Today at 02:01 PM Oh my, I sure hate to see this. It's one thing to nuke a post, quite a different matter to edit it IMHO.

12-13-2012, 10:01 PM	#51
altopiet Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: The Gem of the Karoo, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,307	Originally posted by riff Oh my, I sure hate to see this. It's one thing to nuke a post, quite a different matter to edit it IMHO. +1, this kind of censorship actually make me re-think why I actually pay to be here

12-13-2012, 11:26 PM	#52
lithos Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS Posts: 3,261	Woo hoo! Burn, baby, burn! I just signed back into post this.

12-14-2012, 06:13 AM	#53
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by riff Oh my, I sure hate to see this. It's one thing to nuke a post, quite a different matter to edit it IMHO. This is tricky, but it worked out well for me. I got frustrated with one of the resident Pentax bashers and called him a troll. In my post there were several on-topic points too. A mod removed the offending phrase and warned me for my behaviour, but let the post stand. That was preferable to having the entire post deleted.

12-14-2012, 06:41 AM	#54
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Originally posted by audiobomber This is tricky, but it worked out well for me. I got frustrated with one of the resident Pentax bashers and called him a troll. In my post there were several on-topic points too. A mod removed the offending phrase and warned me for my behaviour, but let the post stand. That was preferable to having the entire post deleted. Exactly. Many times there are parts to a post that are valid and/or relevant, so in speaking for myself only, I will edit out the offending part of the post and let the rest remain. Censorship? Yup, sure is, but IMHO, removing an entire post for a one line violation is far worse.

12-14-2012, 07:14 AM	#55
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Well just to reiterate, if you need to need to post negative information, most of which is fabrication anyway, to promote your point of view, you probably don't have a valid point of view. You're out to cause trouble. Promote what you love, leave it to others to decide if it's for them. And certainly don't imply someone's photography is in someway lacking because they don't use your preferred brand or format.

12-14-2012, 07:16 AM	#56
altopiet Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: The Gem of the Karoo, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,307	Originally posted by Tom S. Exactly. Many times there are parts to a post that are valid and/or relevant, so in speaking for myself only, I will edit out the offending part of the post and let the rest remain. Censorship? Yup, sure is, but IMHO, removing an entire post for a one line violation is far worse. If I were in the same position, I would rather have the post removed, with an explanation why, leaving me to decide whether to rephrase and post again or not.

12-14-2012, 07:28 AM	#57
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	Originally posted by altopiet If I were in the same position, I would rather have the post removed, with an explanation why, leaving me to decide whether to rephrase and post again or not. You can always go back into the post we "censored" and re-rephrase it yourself. As long as you don't commit another infraction you'll be fine. Mike PF Moderation Team

12-14-2012, 07:56 AM	#58
altopiet Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: The Gem of the Karoo, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,307	What I don't get is why you would want to close it in the first place. It is like having the criminals behind bars so to speak, easy to monitor, and police, now you let them loose on the rest of the population to infect them with there untoward ways. Well you asked for it, it would be interesting to see where this will end.... you know how easy it is for a lot of other subjects in the off-Topic Forum, to get off the rails and for either politics or religion to be dragged into the discussion. If nobody report it, and you don't see it in time, it might harm the forum reputation...? At least one have the option to opt out of that part of the forum as it is now, if you are not interested in it, but now everyone will be exposed to it.