[Tom S.]

To all intents and purposes, that's exactly what I do - I offer only to EU member states and for the purpose of movement of goods and services this definitely IS a domestic sale.

However, don't get me wrong: I got the point and understand (perhaps not justify) the underlying motivation but I just cannot line it up with allowing what essentially is a pricing scam with the blessing of this very forum. You disallow one but let the other go on unchecked, what kind of silly logic is that?

I do not use the forum any more for selling because of this, no sweat, but I will now also abstain from using it for buying - great result!

We have a saying for that, it's called "cutting off your nose to spite your face". Good job!

[bdery]

How is it different than someone not including the shipping in the price?

For instance, many americans only sell within the Us and so can calculate shipping beforehand, but I live in Canada and when I sell, I accept worldwide. How can I include the shipping price when it varies so much?

The same can apply to payment methods. Would you frown upon rebates for in-person transactions? The marketplace is NOT a store.

The marketplace now requires that paypal transactions not be made as "gifts" which is a protection for the buyer.

And for the record, I've rarely sold or bought anything at the listed price. That price is just a starting point.

For anyone walking away because you don't like how the seller phrases his listing, what can I say except to me it sounds like a juvenile reaction. I'm sorry but that's the way it is. There's an offer, take it or leave it, the wording has nothing to do with the final price or the quality of the item.

[monochrome]

For anyone walking away because you don't like how the seller phrases his listing, what can I say except to me it sounds like a juvenile reaction. I'm sorry but that's the way it is. There's an offer, take it or leave it, the wording has nothing to do with the final price or the quality of the item.

Sure, a seller can post whatever he or she wants at his or her own risk of selling or not selling. My comment relates to my desire to contemplate whether to offer to buy.

If the seller advertises the price as $100 (Net To Me), how do I know the price? If the seller advertises the price as $100 + PayPal fees, how do I know the price? Since I don't know the price I need to ask (and trust that the Seller is being truthful) - which is a negotiation, which runs counter to the spirit of the Marketplace. I prefer to send precisely the amount of money named in the Post - not a penny more (with a decision whether to pay actual or bundled Shipping).

Why not simply advertise the item as $105 and make everything easier for everyone? It is still $100 Net To Seller and I don't have to futz around with multiple PM's and' "Well, no thanks, then" messages, which actually make me uncomfortable - and I'm the buyer!

OTOH, banning the Seller's right to make such a Post isn't a good idea either. Just let it be.

[LaurenOE]

I don't sell very often, but I can understand the "net to me".

So many buyers feel entitled to ask for so many different options when sending/purchasing that it's a real turn-off to try and accommodate everyone.

I don't sell very much because of all the questions like " can you send it this way?" or " can you use this/that delivery mechanism?".

When I clearly state that I use PayPal and UPS, and no world-wide shipping, just USA, it doesn't stop people from asking.

I totally get the "total to me" as a way to protect what I want to sell something for.
I like selling things here for the Pentaxian who understands the value and not folks who come here "just" to shop.

[bdery]

f the seller advertises the price as $100 (Net To Me), how do I know the price? If the seller advertises the price as $100 + PayPal fees, how do I know the price? Since I don't know the price I need to ask (and trust that the Seller is being truthful) - which is a negotiation, which runs counter to the spirit of the Marketplace. I prefer to send precisely the amount of money named in the Post - not a penny more (with a decision whether to pay actual or bundled Shipping).

Maybe this reasoning applies to sellers and buyers both being in the Us, but for the rest of the world, shipping is going to be discussed anyway, so you don't know the actual final price before asking. And you're probably going to haggle a bit. And (except if the seller only uses paypal) you could offer to pay cash, money orders, collect on delivery, Google checkout, etc.

That being said, and in part because of the haggling that's likely to take place, the "net to me" is unlikely to be fully met anyway.

[monochrome]

Maybe this reasoning applies to sellers and buyers both being in the Us, but for the rest of the world, shipping is going to be discussed anyway, so you don't know the actual final price before asking. And you're probably going to haggle a bit. And (except if the seller only uses paypal) you could offer to pay cash, money orders, collect on delivery, Google checkout, etc.

That being said, and in part because of the haggling that's likely to take place, the "net to me" is unlikely to be fully met anyway.

Oh I totally agree about the shipping. I usually quote an all-in price and in the comments offer non-USA Buyers either a shipping "Rebate" and the option to price and specify their own service or an upcharge that comes close. The key is, MY TERMS ARE MY RISK.

I price 30% below eBay and add on the charges, for what I consider a fair, quick, clean easy price. I do not accept counter-offers and haggle bids. That's for eBay. I state in my Post that lower offers will not be replied to. If the item languishes for a few weeks here I either lower the price or just take it to eBay and set a higher BIN price.

[stormtech]

That being said, and in part because of the haggling that's likely to take place, the "net to me" is unlikely to be fully met anyway.

That's the second time you've mentioned haggling taking place. While haggling of the price sometimes happens, why do you think that all selling prices in the Marketplace are all negotiable? From one of my more recent sales, when an inquiry arrived via PM, the buyer assumed the same thing saying that he knows that all prices listed in the Marketplace are not the real selling price.......I'm sure some people might ask for a better price, but to assume the listed price is always negotiable?

And as far as shipping, I don't feel the "net to me" has anything to do with that. I expect to pay the actual shipping cost weather it is built into the selling price of added on.

[LaurenOE]

That's the second time you've mentioned haggling taking place. While haggling of the price sometimes happens, why do you think that all selling prices in the Marketplace are all negotiable? From one of my more recent sales, when an inquiry arrived via PM, the buyer assumed the same thing saying that he knows that all prices listed in the Marketplace are not the real selling price.......I'm sure some people might ask for a better price, but to assume the listed price is always negotiable?

And as far as shipping, I don't feel the "net to me" has anything to do with that. I expect to pay the actual shipping cost weather it is built into the selling price of added on.

Yep. This is the "entitled" feeling I was talking about.
I sell Pentax stuff more for getting my unused stuff into someone's hands.
Profit is the least of my motivations for using PF to sell things.

[monochrome]

From one of my more recent sales, when an inquiry arrived via PM, the buyer assumed the same thing saying that he knows that all prices listed in the Marketplace are not the real selling price

The presumptive haggling makes me absolutely abhor buying cars. I drive them as long as I can to just avoid buying another. I always feel dirty when I leave the showroom. I don't want that from the Marketplace.

[stormtech]

The presumptive haggling makes me absolutely abhor buying cars. I drive them as long as I can to just avoid buying another. I always feel dirty when I leave the showroom. I don't want that from the Marketplace.

That hits a chord for me - my last new truck purchase took me 2 weeks and ended up driving 760 miles - I just don't have the energy for that garbage any more either!

[bdery]

While haggling of the price sometimes happens, why do you think that all selling prices in the Marketplace are all negotiable?

Maybe because I see the marketplace more like a flea market/craigslist than like a Best Buy.

When I bought or sold many things, both here, on Kijiji and other similar sites, and I expect negotiation to take place, or at least be tolerated.

I'm sure some people might ask for a better price, but to assume the listed price is always negotiable?

I do not assume that all prices are negotiable. for instance some people mention that prices are firm. Someone writing "negotiable" is just saying his/her price is too high. Unless the price is firm, I feel I can offer a lower price if I want.

The presumptive haggling

Why should it be presumptive? If someone offers you a lower price and you don't agree to it, just say no. They were not trying to insult you. It's a business transaction that can take place or not. Nothing more to it than that, in my humble opinion.

[monochrome]

Why should it be presumptive? If someone offers you a lower price and you don't agree to it, just say no. They were not trying to insult you. It's a business transaction that can take place or not. Nothing more to it than that, in my humble opinion.

You see, I don't disagree with you - I recognise you from many posts and conversations here. You would likely behave just as you suggest.

I just don't want to futz around responding to PM's just to say, "No, thank you." I don't want to do that any more than I want to negotiate a contract by Text Message. Especially if I say in the FS Post the price is Firm and I get the lowball offer anyway. If I want lowball offers I can just go to eBay and take my chances - I don't need to repsond and I don't need to fell impolite by Ignoring a PM.

But here's the real problem. Some of these people are persistent, too - one even PM'ed me after I declined his offer I must be a noob, would never get that price and I should just sell it to him now while I could. I took down ALL my FS posts and went to eBay after that. Haven't used the Marketplace since, which isn't your problem. But it means a decent seller has vacated the premises, tilting the mix just a tiny bit farther to the coarse side.

[Rondec]

You see, I don't disagree with you - I recognise you from many posts and conversations here. You would likely behave just as you suggest.

I just don't want to futz around responding to PM's just to say, "No, thank you." I don't want to do that any more than I want to negotiate a contract by Text Message. Especially if I say in the FS Post the price is Firm and I get the lowball offer anyway. If I want lowball offers I can just go to eBay and take my chances - I don't need to repsond and I don't need to fell impolite by Ignoring a PM.

But here's the real problem. Some of these people are persistent, too - one even PM'ed me after I declined his offer I must be a noob, would never get that price and I should just sell it to him now while I could. I took down ALL my FS posts and went to eBay after that. Haven't used the Marketplace since, which isn't your problem. But it means a decent seller has vacated the premises, tilting the mix just a tiny bit farther to the coarse side.

I agree. I attempt to list things for a reasonable price based on what I am selling, the price new and what kind of condition it is in. In general, I don't find people low balling, but sometimes people think that this is some kind of reverse auction, where you can haggle the price down. If I don't get my initial price, I may lower it down the road, but I am unlikely to jump at some low ball offer if an item has been on the market for a couple of days or a week.

[p38arover]

I don't haggle with a seller. If the seller asks for $x, then I will pay the requested price.

A good deal is one where both parties feel they received a good price, not one where one of the parties feels ripped off.

[dadipentak]

I have no problems with "net to me"--it's a clarifying data point. Generally, I make offers in "including Paypal & shipping" terms--it either works out or it doesn't.