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08-04-2008, 05:05 PM   #1
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About RH's locked thread

I sure won't be making any friends because of this, but I feel compelled to discuss it.

Was the editing and locking-up of RH's thread really fair? If you take a look at it, the ones who made a mess of it are his haters - they did the trolling.

As an example, I collected a few recent posts that are very similar to his, some much less informative about the link offered:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/33577-whered-they-go.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/33045-new-camera.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/31832-you-guys-catch-w...50mp-chip.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/30771-ahem-k20d-review-dpr.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/26437-just-pentax-k10d-camera-year.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/27419-samsung-said-soo...does-mean.html (what if OGL works for digitimes?)

You can find hundreds of similar postins, and I've never seen any of them being edited because it's "just a link".

This is really becoming personal.

Check this: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/31631-pentax-user-magazine.html

Ben is batlantly promoting himself, nothing else, no information. I'm not against it, but why is it that RH, or anyone else, doesn't have the same right? Is Benjamin Kanarek special? (I know he is, but you get the context)

I don't see the point. People link to other websites directly without posting a summary everyday, and they are not penalized. Last time I checked RH's blog wasn't serving any ads (and neither is PF, so no one is losing anything).

Aside from his ugly layout and cheesy comments, the post is actually useful and informative.

Please do not turn this thread into a verbal fight. Don't answer if you're feeling angry, thanks

08-04-2008, 06:48 PM   #2
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First off, I must confess that I am not a moderator and have nothing to do with the operation of this forum. My comments are just my observations and might have nothing to do with the censure of the rice man's post.

I can't be sure, but I think that the locking has less to do with his comments as it does with the content of his post. RiceHigh uses this and other forums to drive traffic to his blog, which in turn has ads that provide revenue. (At least he had ads the last time I visited his blog.) Generally he will make some sort of intriguing comment in the thread title and then have very little in the message other than to provide a link to his blog.

Correction: I just visited RiceHigh's blog and he no longer has ads, though I can swear that I have followed his links in the past to pages with ads. So much for memory, eh?

Now a person may think that most bloggers are neutral observers. The truth is that many receive payments from manufacturers and other sites to comment on their products and slant opinion one way or another. This is the "dirty little secret" of the blogosphere. Now, I don't know that RiceHigh actually does this, but it is clear that he does derive revenue from ads at the very least. Not...see above

While his blog may be informative at times, I don't believe that the purpose of this forum is not to serve as a conduit to his or other commercial ventures. This is a community, not an infomercial.

Steve

P.S.
I have often wondered too about some members' promotion of their studios and other businesses here. I guess it does not bother me too much to see it in a watermark or signature, but I would just as soon not see posts that read like an update to their portfolio/resume'. The same might also be said about members that start a post extolling the virtues of a particular lens only to post the same item for sale in the marketplace a few days later.

Last edited by stevebrot; 08-04-2008 at 07:09 PM.
08-04-2008, 07:46 PM   #3
Damn Brit
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The first example should have been in the lens section but that was an easy mistake to make. It was a perfectly valid question and should not be included with the others.
Of the other examples, two was by a newbie who only has three posts and so, should be forgiven because it was probably in the wrong forum (should have been in DPReview.
Third should have been in off topic forum. Gooshin can argue that point if he wants. Mistakes happen, Mods and Adam can move them if necessary. the 'Knowledge Database' is the only one that is sacred. I know that because Adam told me and the forum itself reminds me.
Fourth, fifth and sixth were all valid news links.
Ben has every right to promote himself, if that is what he is actually doing. He's made a successful career as a photographer/artist. I'm sure individuals on this forum are interested in his career considering he shoots with a Pentax (among others).
All threads had a link in them with sufficient text to decide whether or not to follow the link.
I didn't see RH's thread so I can't comment specifically but from experience they usually link to his own website, which would make it different from your examples.

Most threads that RH starts go the same way, a lot of the threads that RH contributes to go the same way. Which again, antagonism or not, would make it different to your examples.

Perhaps this thread should have been about why RH is still tolerated on this forum.
If people were that unhappy about RH being on the forum they could complain to Adam and/or the 'Mods' and let them administrate/moderate.
Alternatively, someone could start a petition to have RH removed or..............people aren't that bothered and we leave things as they are.

Maybe, in some weird way, RH is reaching out to make friends or maybe he's a 'nut job', who knows. Maybe he is a girl, or someone else. Maybe we should talk to him and treat him with kindness to see if he can be rehabilitated to become a valued member of the forum. Maybe we should welcome RH into the fold or turn RH out into the cold or just ignore RH if we as individuals want to..

I just wish he would post some pics in the 'User Gallery'

This contribution to the discussion was made without a trace of anger (apart from when I accidentally erased what I had typed and had to start again).

How about a Poll: Reach Out to RH or Kick Out RH.
08-04-2008, 07:46 PM   #4
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Here we go again.

How many times does this kind of thread needs to repeat itself a million times in this forum?

The forum needs RH to keep the readership up with his contribution on the negative sides. Given his history in this particular forum, his role is obviously appreciated by the forum administrator with a few "reminders" for abiding certain rules. This is between him and the forum administrators and we do not know what is really happening between him and the forum itself.

We are just bystanders and not in the position to discuss the right or wrong about him here since we do not own the forum, we do not have all the information here and we leave it to the people who are in the positions to make that particular decision.

08-04-2008, 07:59 PM   #5
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QuoteQuote:
If people were that unhappy about RH being on the forum they could complain to Adam and/or the 'Mods' and let them administrate/moderate.
Alternatively, someone could start a petition to have RH removed or..............people aren't that bothered and we leave things as they are.

In some of the sillier RH threads, I've suggested that no one reply to them. That nugget was ignored, so I have no sympathy for anyone who contributes.

I just ignore most of it. There were only 2 posters in this forum I ever really disliked - I have not seen them in a long tiome though.
08-04-2008, 08:06 PM   #6
Damn Brit
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And you've just started talking to me again.

Forgot to mention it earlier, is this thread in the right section?
08-04-2008, 08:09 PM   #7
Damn Brit
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QuoteOriginally posted by roentarre Quote

We are just bystanders and not in the position to discuss the right or wrong about him here since we do not own the forum,
Maybe those of us who are site supporters should know more under certain circumstances.

08-04-2008, 08:48 PM   #8
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Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
The first example should have been in the lens section but that was an easy mistake to make. It was a perfectly valid question and should not be included with the others.
Of the other examples, two was by a newbie who only has three posts and so, should be forgiven because it was probably in the wrong forum (should have been in DPReview.
Third should have been in off topic forum. Gooshin can argue that point if he wants. Mistakes happen, Mods and Adam can move them if necessary. the 'Knowledge Database' is the only one that is sacred. I know that because Adam told me and the forum itself reminds me.
Fourth, fifth and sixth were all valid news links.
Ben has every right to promote himself, if that is what he is actually doing. He's made a successful career as a photographer/artist. I'm sure individuals on this forum are interested in his career considering he shoots with a Pentax (among others).
All threads had a link in them with sufficient text to decide whether or not to follow the link.
I didn't see RH's thread so I can't comment specifically but from experience they usually link to his own website, which would make it different from your examples.

Most threads that RH starts go the same way, a lot of the threads that RH contributes to go the same way. Which again, antagonism or not, would make it different to your examples.

Perhaps this thread should have been about why RH is still tolerated on this forum.
If people were that unhappy about RH being on the forum they could complain to Adam and/or the 'Mods' and let them administrate/moderate.
Alternatively, someone could start a petition to have RH removed or..............people aren't that bothered and we leave things as they are.

Maybe, in some weird way, RH is reaching out to make friends or maybe he's a 'nut job', who knows. Maybe he is a girl, or someone else. Maybe we should talk to him and treat him with kindness to see if he can be rehabilitated to become a valued member of the forum. Maybe we should welcome RH into the fold or turn RH out into the cold or just ignore RH if we as individuals want to..

I just wish he would post some pics in the 'User Gallery'

This contribution to the discussion was made without a trace of anger (apart from when I accidentally erased what I had typed and had to start again).

How about a Poll: Reach Out to RH or Kick Out RH.
Right, so you didn't read his post, and anything is fine if it's not coming from him, because he should get banned. Good point.


So, why is that Ben has every right to promote himself and other people don't, on your opinion? Only successful photographers are allowed to promote themselves?

Do you really think that the last thread by ogl had "sufficient text to decide whether or not to follow the link.", more than RH's? (oh wait, you didn't see his post )

You're just proving my point. You're wrong not him, this has become a personal crusade.

QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
And you've just started talking to me again.

Forgot to mention it earlier, is this thread in the right section?
I believe so, this is about the forum policies (was supposed to be). I certainly wasn't gonna post it under "News & Rumours".

QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
Maybe those of us who are site supporters should know more under certain circumstances.
Like in "I paid so I have more rights than the others" ? You're supporting the site, not owning it.

Better stop here, I'm starting to troll. It's contagious!
08-04-2008, 08:49 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by roentarre Quote
Here we go again.

How many times does this kind of thread needs to repeat itself a million times in this forum?

The forum needs RH to keep the readership up with his contribution on the negative sides. Given his history in this particular forum, his role is obviously appreciated by the forum administrator with a few "reminders" for abiding certain rules. This is between him and the forum administrators and we do not know what is really happening between him and the forum itself.

We are just bystanders and not in the position to discuss the right or wrong about him here since we do not own the forum, we do not have all the information here and we leave it to the people who are in the positions to make that particular decision.
Thanks for adding so much to the discussion. Another one down, I guess.
08-04-2008, 08:50 PM   #10
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OK, obviously people have issues with this still, and I am hesitant to let this thread go on and turn into another RH bashing thread (atm it isn't but it can slip easily).. I will let it go on as I want to keep my reasoning as transparent as possible.. But please avoid directly attacking any forum members, or this thread will be closed without hesitation..

QuoteOriginally posted by ricardobeat Quote
As an example, I collected a few recent posts that are very similar to his, some much less informative about the link offered:
They seem to be people posting a link to independant sites asking for more information or discussion. To me it is not the same as a user who constantly uses the forum to build hits on his blog. Can you imagine if everyone wrote all their opinions on their blogs and then started and answered most of their threads simply with links to the blogs.. What would be the point of having a forum?

Also these threads didn't receive numerous (or any) complaints from forum users as we constantly get from RH related threads. We sometimes close them completely as people start going too far, personally attacking RH, and then he claims we victimise him for closing his threads.

QuoteQuote:
This is really becoming personal.
It is always personal when a user gets constant complaints, we make a (often private) request to try and keep the peace on the forum (which is our ultimate goal) and he (1) continues to disregard our requests (2) claims the moderators are liars (this is one of his ways of making it personal, and doesn't help his cause)..

QuoteQuote:
I'm not against it, but why is it that RH, or anyone else, doesn't have the same right? Is XYZ special?
I'm sorry to be so blunt (I hope I don't sound angry, but you have no knowledge of any private discussions between any individual forum members and the moderaters. Not to say anyone in particular had any discussion with us, you get the idea though? RH is not not the only person we have kindly asked to go a little above and beyond the basic forum rules to help keep the peace.. We prefer to keep this private, but RH just chooses to antagonise us..

Last edited by joele; 08-04-2008 at 09:38 PM.
08-04-2008, 09:13 PM   #11
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my only thoughts in my limited exposure to him, is why come here to only post a link. whether he makes a dime on it or not is not relevant. its that at times it seems to be getting passed off as a credible source of news, when it's no different if you or i googled for the news item and looked at a few hits.

similarly, especially earlier, seems the measurbation was ridiculous and there were never any photos to show we were dealing with a photographer. stil not sure of many photos, and the excuse (i believe rh said he keeps them private) is kinda silly considering how many of us share personal experiences and photos.

maybe thats why, as much as he posts, its hard to feel his a forum member. i dont look at his posts expecting to learn anything, i gain no insight at all. so while he might link to news items, i personally find no value in them because its either been translated and is a bear to read, or its just dry meaningless numbers.

so, i just don't really pay much attention to him.

and re: a comparison to ben, or anyone else who links to their site/studio/etc., its not a fair or valid comparison. ben and others are linking to photos, articles, things that show off their photographic endeavours. thats why we are hear, to discuss, review and enjoy taking pictures. in that sense, while some out there seem to like what rh does, i dont feel that his blog fits what i just said.
which is again why i excercise my right as a person with choice, and i just dont read his blog. simple as that.
08-04-2008, 11:26 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
RiceHigh uses this and other forums to drive traffic to his blog, which in turn has ads that provide revenue. (At least he had ads the last time I visited his blog.) Generally he will make some sort of intriguing comment in the thread title and then have very little in the message other than to provide a link to his blog.
Steve, I'm sure that you know this already. But some people here might not.

I just wanted to respond to this as stating that some people have their blogs on a free site. Which is often paid for by those ads along the top or sides
We really shouldn't hold this against the person or their site.

Plus pop-ups are often installed without the bloggers / web masters knowledge when they use the wrong guest book or stats counter.
One of my old sites had this problem before I realized what was happening.

Personally I don't mind it when the ads are along the edges, but I hate it when they have links attached to some of the text on the main site.
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