[From1980]

Looking forward to seeing some great discussion in this new thread. Hope to learn and maybe get ideas for future acquisitions (Like I need more stuff) I just recently sold off some things that would qualify here but still very interested.

[wkraus]

…

If there is going to be a cut off, 25 years seems about right. Think this quarter century figure is used for other vintage items, such as cars, trucks, motorcycles...and that works well for those interests.

A great idea, don't know why we haven't thought of it before. Kudos to the OP.

It seems strange to me that my Z-1p should be included in this category. Are there many film cameras younger than that? I'd vote for 50 years, or there would be too much overlap with general analog photography.

[Adam]

It seems strange to me that my Z-1p should be included in this category. Are there many film cameras younger than that? I'd vote for 50 years, or there would be too much overlap with general analog photography.

Since we already have forums that cover everything Pentax, I'd set the new one to cover non-Pentax vintage gear, in which case 25+ years sounds reasonable IMO.

[angerdan]

From my point of view there are several topics:

1. Definition of vintage (in relation to legacy)
2. Existence of Off-Topic Forums → Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc.
3. Existence of Pentax Cameras → Pentax Film SLR Discussion

So my opinion is:

1. No consent about definition of vintage and no clear separation between legacy and vintage. Also it differs in every brand/system/bajonett.
   Who Needs Modern Lenses? - Page 2 - PentaxForums.com
   Created a new vintage lens reference site for major SLR lens systems - PentaxForums.com
2. For Pentax film cameras there's already an own subforum
   Pentax Film SLR Discussion - PentaxForums.com
3. For Non-Pentax cameras theres another subforum
   Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. - PentaxForums.com

My personal conclusion:
With current arguments no additional (sub)forum neccesary.

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Last edited by angerdan; 10-27-2021 at 02:22 PM.

[tonyzoc]

A couple of new additions to the Nikon collection...

[MarkJerling]

From my point of view there are several topics:

...............

1. For Pentax film cameras there's already an own subforum
   Pentax Film SLR Discussion - PentaxForums.com
2. For Non-Pentax cameras theres another subforum
   Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. - PentaxForums.com

Conclusion:
With current arguments no additional (sub)forum neccesary.

On this basis, my personal opinion is that an early cut-off would satisfy the requirements of "Vintage". When it comes to old cars, "Veteran" is pre-1905 and "Vintage" is pre-1930.

I'd like to suggest that we adopt, for cameras, pre-1951 for "Vintage" as that would automatically exclude all Pentax cameras. That would mean that discussion of cameras from 1951 onwards would remain in those two parts of the forum without confusion as to which sub-forum they belong in.

I would see this proposed new segment as either a sub-forum in the Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. - PentaxForums.com part of the forum or a completely stand-alone section. I think part of Ismael's reasoning is to have a specific part of the forum where discussion of early cameras will be able to stand alone without the threads disappearing amongst more modern camera threads.

It may even make sense to have it with divisions for pre-1900, pre-1930 and pre-1951. On that basis, I would think a completely separate section would make sense as it could be a good "home" for vintage camera gear aficionados who may not have an interest in the rest of the forum and may make it more easy to find.

I stress this is my personal view and not that of moderator.

[angerdan]

There are already forums which are specialiced into vintage:
photography-forum.org/forums/film-and-vintage-forum.97/
antiquecameras.proboards.com/

So another question is, what arguments are pro inclusion of non-pentax, mon-Asahi cameras as an own subforum into an Pentax Forum ?

Ore more direct, why should other brands be discussed in specific subforums?

[MarkJerling]

There would seem to be no sense in directing members here to other forums! That literally makes no sense at all.

There are no Pentax "vintage" cameras as Pentax only exists as a camera maker from 1951/1952. Be that as it may, there are many photographers (and potentially members here) with an interest in early cameras and imaging history. As such, it would seem to make sense to have somewhere those people can share their work.

Just because (most of) this early gear is not Pentax does not alter the fact that current (and potential) members could have an interest in such a sub-forum. And, the company that would become Pentax, the Asahi Optical Co. made camera lenses for other camera makers from 1923, so there's certainly an early connection with Pentax.

[BigMackCam]

It would be all too easy to over-think this. IMHO, if the proposed vintage forum is too selective on age and brand, it's not going to have enough posters (or readers), and it will exclude a lot of fascinating gear that typically isn't discussed either in our main Pentax forums - or even the non-Pentax forum, which largely revolves around digital cameras and AF lenses.

If this forum goes ahead (and I sincerely hope it does), I think it should be for all pre-digital cameras and manual focus lenses at least 25 years old and out of current production. That's a simple set of criteria casting a wide net, with clear delineation from recent equipment. Personally, I don't believe it should exclude Pentax... Vintage gear is vintage, regardless of brand, and the worst that could happen is the someone might cross-post in both an existing Pentax-related forum and this new one. I'm sure most of us interested in older gear are interested in all the brands (I certainly am).

Rather than coming up with reasons why we shouldn't have this dedicated vintage forum (and I'm sure we could come up with plenty), perhaps we should simply try it and see if it succeeds? The criteria for posting can be fine-tuned as we go along...

[angerdan]

If this forum goes ahead, I think it should be for film cameras and manual focus lenses at least 25 years old and out of current production.

That's a simple set of criteria casting a wide net, but clear delineation from recent equipment.
Rather than coming up with reasons why we shouldn't have this dedicated vintage forum, perhaps we should simply try it and see if it succeeds?

The criteria for posting can be fine-tuned as we go along...

What film formats do you think about?
Because Pentax Medium Format (645 & 6x7) can also be older than 25 years. And has its own dedicated subforum.

AF-era did start 1987, so 37 years in which also MF lenses for K-Mount had been introduced. In my opinion everything between 1987 and 1996 is still legacy and vintage is older systems like M42 and Canon FD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Pentax_K-mount_AF_lenses_timeline
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Pentax_645-mount_lenses_timeline

Would a new subforum for 35mm film SLR cameras older than 1986 booth Pentax and non Pentax?

Finetuning sounds very good

[lesmore49]

If this forum goes ahead (and I sincerely hope it does), I think it should be for all pre-digital cameras and manual focus lenses at least 25 years old and out of current production. That's a simple set of criteria casting a wide net, with clear delineation from recent equipment. Personally, I don't believe it should exclude Pentax... Vintage gear is vintage, regardless of brand, and the worst that could happen is the someone might cross-post in both an existing Pentax-related forum and this new one. I'm sure most of us interested in older gear are interested in all the brands (I certainly am).

I agree, with this suggestion, as it makes complete sense to me.

My view is keep it simple., don't complicate it up with too many rules as many who would like to participate in this type of forum, don't want to have to figure out whether or not, what they want to discuss, falls within the rules.

BigMackCam's recommendation for the forum:

"...should be for all pre-digital cameras and manual focus lenses at least 25 years old and out of current production. "

Perfect.

It's simple, covers pretty well what I think many of us want for this forum. I also agree that is should not exclude Pentax. This is a Pentax forum . As BigMackCam says...'Vintage gear is vintage gear.'

Les

[BigMackCam]

What film formats do you think about?
Because Pentax Medium Format (645 & 6x7) can also be older than 25 years. And has its own dedicated subforum.

AF-era did start 1987, so 37 years in which also MF lenses for K-Mount had been introduced. In my opinion everything between 1987 and 1996 is still legacy and vintage is older systems like M42 and Canon FD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Pentax_K-mount_AF_lenses_timeline
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Pentax_645-mount_lenses_timeline

Would a new subforum for 35mm film SLR cameras older than 1986 booth Pentax and non Pentax?

Finetuning sounds very good

Whatever criteria we come up with, there's going to be some cross-over with existing forums, sub-forums and/or club threads. That's OK - there's already some cross-over and cross-posting within those, and the world hasn't crumbled around us.

I'm suggesting we keep the criteria as simple and inclusive as possible, so that it's accessible and interesting to a wide audience who appreciate and enjoy old equipment of all types and formats. If the purpose of the new forum can't be described in a single, short sentence, then it's too complicated and potentially confusing. If the criteria are too specific, or the age cut-off is much more than 25 years, we'll exclude a lot of interesting late-film-era gear.

A "new subforum for 35mm film SLR cameras older than 1986 both Pentax and non Pentax" - whilst interesting enough in its own way - would be too narrow and exclusive, in my opinion. It would exclude all other formats and media except 35mm film; it would exclude view cameras, TLRs, rangefinders, compacts, pinhole cameras etc.; it would exclude a lot of interesting film-era equipment from the late '80s and early '90s. Frankly, it would exclude a whole lot more than it includes. I'm suggesting the new forum should be inclusive of as much old gear as possible, so long as it's non-digital. Whether it's antique, vintage or legacy according to individual opinion really doesn't matter.

I'm not hung up on the MF vs AF thing... I'll happily streamline my suggested criteria to "all non-digital equipment at least 25 years old and no longer in production"...

[Kerrowdown]

"all non-digital equipment at least 25 years old and no longer in production"...

Guess this is where both me and my "Ladies" will sign up... as we both meet the criteria.

[Adam]

The new forum is now live! For now I've decided to go with a non-restrictive format similar to @BigMackCam's suggestion above. There will be some potential overlap with other sections, but let's keep it simple for now and see how it goes. Enjoy!

Vintage Cameras - PentaxForums.com

[MarkJerling]

Thank you Adam.