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View Poll Results: Should religious and political threads be allowed in General Talk?
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03-07-2009, 06:02 AM   #16
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Depends on your goal with these forums. If the forums are meant to be photographic related, then "General Talk" should be general, but photo related. However, if you want a section where people can discuss the weather, oil prices and the economy, then Religion and Politics will always come up.

You hope people can be mature, but when emotions get involved the posts become increasingly harmful to one-another. That has a spill-over effect on the other forum sections. People will start knocking each other in posts outside of the General Talk and the thread in which they began hating each other.

Its not just religion and politics, although these may be the most likely to cause heated debates. Forums always get someone cheesed off, rubbed the wrong way or running home to mommy.

The easiest thing for you Adam would be to make EVERY post on this site photographic related. Every one treats everyone else with respect or their post gets deleted. At least you have some bottom-line standard on which to judge. With Religion and Politics, the bottom-line standard shifts (since everyone has a different moral standard) and its impossible to win an argument like that.

Good luck, and what ever you decide is what's decided. I'm sure all of us stand behind you.

- Andrew

03-07-2009, 06:51 AM   #17
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I think Douglas_of_Sweden sums it up nicely. These kind of discussions give quite an insight into the thinking of some people from this international community.
If you don't like these subjects, avoid the threads.

Adam, if you would try to ban these subjects, how on earth are you going to decide what is "politics" or "religion".
What about a very interesting thread where somebody posts something that could be interpreted as "politics" or "religion"? Does the whole thread get locked or deleted?
I'm afraid that censoring certain subjects is the first step towards scrapping the 'General Talk' forum and then...

I suggest to allow this.
03-07-2009, 07:39 AM   #18
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I'm intensely opinionated (and always right, btw ;~) about politics and--in a strange sort of way--religion. However, except for an occasional aside (and I try to keep these gentle), my practice is not to engage in discussions of these matters here--except by email or PM. There are, after all, other fora for such things.

Of course, political content does appear in my photos from time to time. For example, it was an essential element in this photograph ("Hope Restored") of my 94-year old father, a life-long progressive activist.

I guess I don't mind religious/political disputation in the General Talk (as long as I don't have to participate) and it may be good to have a space place where respectful dialogue on these matters can take place. In any event, this will continue to be a moderating challenge--not just for the Moderators, but for all of us.

Last edited by dadipentak; 12-28-2009 at 03:01 PM.
03-07-2009, 08:21 AM   #19
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If this forum were a room, and we had all gathered to talk about our cameras and photography... Who in their right mind would start talking about politics or religion? Showing a picture of a political rally would be fine. Having a non-photographic opinion about the picture wouldn't.

In my thinking, photographers are un-biased, neutral parties who strive to capture what they see... as honestly as possible. I don't believe you can be the best photographer possible with any other agenda.

There are 50,000 other forums where you can talk politics and religion all you want... but this is the only Pentax Forums.com. Why waste the bandwidth here?

03-07-2009, 08:24 AM   #20
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Flame war threads

I voted to continue to permit any and all discussion topics in General Talk - but civility is a positive value here.

I predict the day will come when a moderator closes a thread that many members would consider neither political nor religious. An example - the recent string of threads discussing photographer arrests for photographing Amtrak sites. I characterize those as political threads - should they be banned?

FWIW Adam, the worst abuse of OP's I have seen here has been on photography threads, usually when one or two certain posters make an unfounded negative comment about Pentax, and on the mentioned Amtrak threads.

I just ignore a thread once the tone becomes negative. What's the big deal - if people stop replying the thread dies its own death - why ban it?

Last edited by monochrome; 03-07-2009 at 09:33 AM.
03-07-2009, 09:18 AM   #21
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i voted no, but, having said that, i hope discussions around laws against photography in certain places, photographers getting arrested, etc, should be allowed to continue. They are 'sort of' political discussions, but still related to what this forum is about.
03-07-2009, 09:29 AM   #22
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I'm not against religious threads, but seriously, what is the point?

"I want to thank God for helping me take that picture...."

03-07-2009, 09:48 AM   #23
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My take is that such conversations should be allowed. Particularly with this forum, I'm always pleasently suprised how well folks are able to keep things confined to the "General Talk" area and not let opinions or disagreements spill over into the other areas. We've got a great bunch of people here with plenty of differing opinions. Open conversation can only lead to better understanding of others and where they are coming from. At the risk of alienating myself, but to illustrate the point, I've never agreed with anything that Benjikan has posted in the general talk area of the board. I still very much respect his work and admire him as a photographer and businessman. My opinion of his non-photography related views wouldn't ever stop me from taking his photographic advice seriously. Isn't that what the whole idea is about?
03-07-2009, 09:59 AM   #24
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I agree with what has been said before, where does censorship end? So I vote to allow political or religious discussions. Maybe just a warning to enter at your own risk and refrain from uglyness... just my 2 cents
03-07-2009, 11:53 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by detlef Quote
I agree with what has been said before, where does censorship end? So I vote to allow political or religious discussions. Maybe just a warning to enter at your own risk and refrain from uglyness... just my 2 cents
My sensibility would normally lie with you. But if I/we were to walk a mile in the shoes of our friends the moderators it's likely an inordinate amount of their time in proportion to the rest of the forum sections would be spent in moderating these non-forum relevant postings where 'ugliness' set-in none the less.
03-07-2009, 04:10 PM   #26
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These 2 subjects separate people more than bind them. All people end up doing is arguing over the same thing over and over. It's been happening for thousands of years and nothing has ever changed. Like it or not, no matter what your view is on life whatever opinion you have will classify you as such. Unfortunately, some will hold that against you in other parts of the forum as well. It is called human nature. Pride in your belief comes before acceptance of others, it is a sad world.

It's not a matter of freedom of speech as there are thousands of other forums and outlets on the net to express yourself on. This forum already has a purpose, which is clearly stated in the domain name itself.

The Mods would be 5 times busier than they already are. I highly doubt they want that type of increase in their work. Keep this Pentax Forum as is. No P&R. I vote for a 'No' on the politics and religion posts.

I am here for no other reason except as a person who loves photography, cameras and the brand Pentax. (and to make a few friends along the way .
03-07-2009, 04:51 PM   #27
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As the majority of forums I 'hang out' in are American, I see wierd threads all the time. I don't even read the vast majority of them. On 1 site, the moderator of the particular forum they appear in usually beats people with a ban stick for a week if they lose control

It doesn't always help!

EDIT: To all the 1st amendment junkies I'd like to add... this is Adam & Ole's site. If they don't want political arguments to degenerate into name calling on their Photography site, because people are too childish to act like adults, that's their decision, not yours. Deal with it!
03-07-2009, 04:55 PM   #28
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I'm not really for the outright ban of any subject, but I wish people had enough respect for this board to avoid starting political/religious threads.

The simple fact is that they are extremely polarized subjects and the extremists at both end of the spectrum will NEVER see eye to eye no matter how much they argue. They refuse to acknowledge facts, argue back and forth endlessly and create frictions between users.

Most of the boards I am on outright ban those subjects, or close threads the second they get personnal or insulting and suspend users. I'd rather not see that here...

Pat
03-07-2009, 04:55 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by ajuett Quote
These 2 subjects separate people more than bind them.
In fact it's getting over emotional about these subjects that divides people. Rational argument tends to bring people closer together and more trusting of each other. Several people have become friends on this forum as a direct result of their opposing opinions in threads about these 'divisive' subjects.

If people want to vote these subjects out of the forum, do it by all means, just vote subjectively not emotionally.

After all, politics especially is an extremely important matter at this present time in history.
03-07-2009, 05:32 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
In fact it's getting over emotional about these subjects that divides people. Rational argument tends to bring people closer together and more trusting of each other. Several people have become friends on this forum as a direct result of their opposing opinions in threads about these 'divisive' subjects.

If people want to vote these subjects out of the forum, do it by all means, just vote subjectively not emotionally.

After all, politics especially is an extremely important matter at this present time in history.
I agree however, P & R are the hottest topics to debate period. It's always over emotional. It only takes a few hot heads with rigid views to start a heated argument. That is the main reason why I feel P & R should be left out of this forum.

Pentax Forums doesn't stand for Political Emotional Nonsense Takes All eXtreme Fun Out, Religion Undermines Man's Sociability ...ok, so I was stretching it there
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