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View Poll Results: Should religious and political threads be allowed in General Talk?
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03-07-2009, 09:49 PM   #31
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For a million and one reasons,which I have niether the time nor paitence to elaborate on. In short, no.

Though the argument between Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander rangefinder lenses can reach a heated pitch bordering on neurotic fanaticism..as long as anything like that doesn't happen here i'm good. wars over who makes the best glass is as close to religion as photography gets, let's keep it that way. Religion is a veritable minefield, I think it would be best for these forums to keep such polarizing subjects off the menu.

03-08-2009, 12:02 AM   #32
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This is clearly a tough call. If we vote no, we're basically asking the moderators to transverse a minefield, deciding to everyone's satisfaction what is or isn't an acceptable political or religious discussion. In spite of my objections to these types of threads, I really don't want to see every such discussion banned. But, at the same time, I'm throughly fed up with some blatantly using this forum as a platform to attack the political and/or religious beliefs of others.

That said, what I'd ultimately like to see when it comes to moderation is emphasis shifted away from closing threads towards deleting individual messages, with messages containing any negative comments, however mild (give an inch and some will take a mile), about another member, or any negative comment (without substantial cited evidence) about a group, deleted immediately (the text of that entire message replaced with <message deleted by moderator>). This will hopefully force most discussions to remain more fact-based and/or positive, without personal insults or unsupported negative generalities.

Absent that in the last paragraph, I'm voting no.

stewart




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Last edited by stewart_photo; 03-08-2009 at 12:15 AM.
03-10-2009, 06:08 AM   #33
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I say, let the threads exist...it's an easier way to identify those who are aspiring photography artists from those who already are bullshit artists.

Jason
03-10-2009, 07:01 AM   #34
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I am in favor of both positions. On the one hand, it would be a nicer place without the ongoing arguments about things unrelated to photography. On the other hand, it's a restriction on speech. On the gripping hand, it's Adam's forum and he makes the final decision. Regardless of the choice it will involve more work for the moderators to check & close threads, either at the beginning of a thread with prohibited content, or later on in the life of a thread when it devolves into the muck and slime.

I reluctantly vote to allow the mudslinging threads in, though I would LOVE to see the forum members refrain from starting them!

And I whole-heartedly endorse that ANY thread can be closed by ANY of the moderators when it devolves.

Jim

03-10-2009, 07:03 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
This is clearly a tough call. If we vote no, we're basically asking the moderators to transverse a minefield, deciding to everyone's satisfaction what is or isn't an acceptable political or religious discussion. In spite of my objections to these types of threads, I really don't want to see every such discussion banned. But, at the same time, I'm throughly fed up with some blatantly using this forum as a platform to attack the political and/or religious beliefs of others.

That said, what I'd ultimately like to see when it comes to moderation is emphasis shifted away from closing threads towards deleting individual messages, with messages containing any negative comments, however mild (give an inch and some will take a mile), about another member, or any negative comment (without substantial cited evidence) about a group, deleted immediately (the text of that entire message replaced with <message deleted by moderator>). This will hopefully force most discussions to remain more fact-based and/or positive, without personal insults or unsupported negative generalities.

Absent that in the last paragraph, I'm voting no.


stewart
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Good points all. My concern is more with the "kill Obama" threads and sig files than with, for example, the rather heated discussions we've had regarding trespassing arrests at Penn Station, which in their own way are political in nature.
I think if the nature of the thread has nothing to do with photography, and everything to do with either politics and religion, it should be stopped in it's tracks and deleted from the forum as an warning to others that it's a waste of time to engage in these discussions.
OTOH, if the thread is relevant to photography and a certain amount of politics has to enter into the discussion, then that's something else.
A minefield for sure, but I do believe that the mods can figure out what is photographically relevant and what is just someone posturing for their political party.
03-10-2009, 09:23 AM   #36
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I am truly mystified by the need for this discussion. If I don't want to read or reply to a thread - ANY thread - I just stop going there. Others can flame all they want - I just read about lenses and cameras (and Pentax rumors). The important point is, it is MY decision whether to read or not to read, not that of a Moderator or a policy decision.

That being said, I don't know what is in a thread before I start to read it - only after I read a few posts can I make a decision to stop reading, and not read again when another post bumps the thread.

A potential compromise - is there a vBulletin setting to ignore an entire Forum the way it can add a User to an Ignore List? If so, should we have a Politcal/Religious Discussion Forum that a User can Ignore, if so desired?

Such a feature would leave the decision up to the User, rather than depending upon the subjective evaluation of a moderator (bad for them and for us) or establishing a "charged policy" at PentaxForums.com.

Moderators' judgement need be limited to only a decision whether a post entered in General Talk (or another Forum) would need to be moved to Polital Religious Discussion - easier on them. (I'd bet some OP's would even object to THAT decision!)
03-10-2009, 09:36 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
My concern is more with the "kill Obama" threads and sig files ...
Really... there were some of those? I haven't been clicking "New Posts" for a while now so haven't seen them. My ignore list [aka twit-filter] would have grown immediately had I seen it; not for being pro one party or another, just as I can't respect anyone and by extension anything that would come from anyone who would say such a thing even if it would have been said about an opposing political party member.
03-10-2009, 10:20 AM   #38
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food for thought

QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
I say, let the threads exist...it's an easier way to identify those who are aspiring photography artists from those who already are bullshit artists.

Jason




The angry face was when I stopped laughing long enough to realize you may be talking about me...


Last edited by Igilligan; 03-10-2009 at 10:32 AM.
03-10-2009, 10:23 AM   #39
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Due to this becoming a VERY thorny issue, another forum (alma mater-related) where I'm active solved the problem by relegating such posts to a Forum/Message Board (whatever you want to call it) for just such posts. Appropriately enough the new area became known as "The Soapbox."

The general topic Forum/Message Board known as "The Corner" instantly became a nice place to visit again and shoot the breeze on ALL topics aside from religion/politics. Better yet, mods really didn't have to do much policing after-the-fact, because "The Corner" was policed by all of the active users. If somebody dropped in and tried to stir the pot (knowingly or unknowingly), regulars simply advised the offender to "take it to The Soapbox" and that was it. Perhaps something like this is an option here.
03-10-2009, 10:36 AM   #40
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The Soapbox

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I am truly mystified by the need for this discussion. If I don't want to read or reply to a thread - ANY thread - I just stop going there. Others can flame all they want - I just read about lenses and cameras (and Pentax rumors). The important point is, it is MY decision whether to read or not to read, not that of a Moderator or a policy decision.

That being said, I don't know what is in a thread before I start to read it - only after I read a few posts can I make a decision to stop reading, and not read again when another post bumps the thread.

A potential compromise - is there a vBulletin setting to ignore an entire Forum the way it can add a User to an Ignore List? If so, should we have a Politcal/Religious Discussion Forum that a User can Ignore, if so desired?

Such a feature would leave the decision up to the User, rather than depending upon the subjective evaluation of a moderator (bad for them and for us) or establishing a "charged policy" at PentaxForums.com.

Moderators' judgement need be limited to only a decision whether a post entered in General Talk (or another Forum) would need to be moved to Polital Religious Discussion - easier on them. (I'd bet some OP's would even object to THAT decision!)
QuoteOriginally posted by AlphaGAK20D Quote
Due to this becoming a VERY thorny issue, another forum (alma mater-related) where I'm active solved the problem by relegating such posts to a Forum/Message Board (whatever you want to call it) for just such posts. Appropriately enough the new area became known as "The Soapbox."

The general topic Forum/Message Board known as "The Corner" instantly became a nice place to visit again and shoot the breeze on ALL topics aside from religion/politics. Better yet, mods really didn't have to do much policing after-the-fact, because "The Corner" was policed by all of the active users. If somebody dropped in and tried to stir the pot (knowingly or unknowingly), regulars simply advised the offender to "take it to The Soapbox" and that was it. Perhaps something like this is an option here.
Precisely!
03-10-2009, 11:07 AM   #41
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I voted yes. Gee what a surprise. When I have had enough I just stop checking the thread. And it usually dies a quick death when people get tired of it. JMHO
As of late it seems I check the Photo threads out much more and do more posting there (I hope) than the politico stuff. At least that's what I am trying for.
03-10-2009, 04:35 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by AlphaGAK20D Quote
Due to this becoming a VERY thorny issue, another forum (alma mater-related) where I'm active solved the problem by relegating such posts to a Forum/Message Board (whatever you want to call it) for just such posts. Appropriately enough the new area became known as "The Soapbox."

The general topic Forum/Message Board known as "The Corner" instantly became a nice place to visit again and shoot the breeze on ALL topics aside from religion/politics. Better yet, mods really didn't have to do much policing after-the-fact, because "The Corner" was policed by all of the active users. If somebody dropped in and tried to stir the pot (knowingly or unknowingly), regulars simply advised the offender to "take it to The Soapbox" and that was it. Perhaps something like this is an option here.

It would be interesting to see how many people frequented such a "Soapbox section" on this particular forum.
03-10-2009, 04:57 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
It would be interesting to see how many people frequented such a "Soapbox section" on this particular forum.
By all means, we can have midlife crisis forum or unemployed forum etc. It would be even more inclusive and considerate to include everyone in the forum.
03-10-2009, 04:59 PM   #44
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I'll sign up for all of those.
03-10-2009, 05:33 PM   #45
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"More is better"

I am thinking about "short man syndrome" forum for myself as well.
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