[Bart]

There are several members on this board that seem to have a problem even in photography discussions etc. What I am referring to is when people use condescending language, insults or even name calling. I think what we see in the Political and Religion discussion is an amplification of this.

The disappointing part of this is that a couple of them have a lot of photography and technical knowledge.

If you want to see and example of what I'm talking about, track these threads.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-talk/55842-marketplace-discrimination.html

and a similar older thread.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-talk/40320-continental-u-s-only.html

Perhaps we should ban economics as well

[Arpe]

I voted yes, but add that they must be fairly well moderated. if you and the mods can't be shagged doing that (which I would totally understand) then I switch to "no".

[jimH]

My policy thus far cancerning religious and political threads in the off-topic forum has been to allow them, yet also to close any threads that seemingly went off topic or turned into flame wars.

However, it has been voiced by several members that such threads are generally unwanted, typically end in pointless arguments, have no validity, and accomplish little more than irritation of other forum members.

I'm thus creating a poll to guage the community's stance on this. Should a majority agree that threads of the above type should see a zero-tolerance policy in the future, the General Talk forum rules will be modified to reflect this.

I'd like to see as many votes as possible; votes are not publicly viewable.

Thanks!

My view is that this a "Camera, Photography" Forum, in which, Religion and politics have no place. My experience is that no matter how good of friends you have, if you disagree on Politics or Religion, you will fight. I vote that we Leave those topics to another forum. Let's talk Cameras and Photography.

I for one, don't mind moderating those discussions if necessary, and I am often involved in them myself. I have made several friends in 'those' threads and most of the time we are on opposite sides of 'those' discussions.

I know this is a photography forum but I consider the ability to discuss the full gamut of topics an asset that sets this forum apart from the others and has been a big contribution to it's success.

To you Naysayers I say "The forum has thrived so far, do you really want to change it and risk becoming just like the other forums?".

I do agree that Religious discussions should not be allowed, a persons faith is much too personal but Politics is part of our everyday lives whether we like it or not so why shouldn't we talk about it. If you don't want to be offended by them, don't read them, it's not rocket science.

Let's allow the Political threads and if people don't behave, there will be consequences for those individuals.

I'm sure most of you aren't aware that we have to moderate the Marketplace more than we do General Talk and more personal attacks and flame wars happen in News and Rumours than General Talk.

One final thought, most of the people I have seen complaining about 'those' threads, don't even get involved in them. The word 'Busybody' comes to mind.

I am with Gary on not letting this become like the other forum... Please don't start changing things that make this place special...

But I do disagree a bit with Gary about allowing political, but not religious discussion.
In this, and many countries, Politics is Religion...
I only know a little bit about this country, but here in the U.S. there is no way to separate the two. Christianity controls so many aspects of our political reality on the national and local levels. Book banning is alive and well in 'local' elected school boards. With some boards even attempting to require 'Intelligent Design' to be taught in Science curriculum.

Money from religious groups have paid for 'legislation by proposition' in many state elections...

The govt/politicians have used the military to attack 'Cult' religions.

And the fear of radical elements within the Muslim religion has allowed the gradual stripping of our freedoms and increased spying by the govt/politicians of the United States. And not to mention an unbelievable amount of our tax dollars to pay for all of these Patriot Act requirements voted on by a majority of our politicians.

And in the not so distant past, fanatical elements of the Christian religion have bombed doctors offices and Abortion clinics.

I am just not sure how you can allow political discussion without allowing religious discussion.
There is either open discussion or there is not. I vote for open discussion.

And I am happy that I am allowed to say all this in my home forum...

As for me personally... I am neither here nor there, the classic fence sitter.

And here is where I am agreeing with Gary again.
If you don't want to participate or are easily offended by opposing views and amped up shenanigans...
DONT READ THE THREAD

Gus, you're turning this into a Religious and Political thread.

I am with Gary on not letting this become like the other forum... Please don't start changing things that make this place special...

But I do disagree a bit with Gary about allowing political, but not religious discussion.
In this, and many countries, Politics is Religion...
I only know a little bit about this country, but here in the U.S. there is no way to separate the two. Christianity controls so many aspects of our political reality on the national and local levels. Book banning is alive and well in 'local' elected school boards. With some boards even attempting to require 'Intelligent Design' to be taught in Science curriculem.

Money from religious groups have paid for 'legislation by proposition' in many state elections...

The govt/politicians have used the military to attack 'Cult' religions.

And the fear of radical elements within the Muslim religion has allowed the gradual stripping of our freedoms and increased spying by the govt/politicians of the United States. And not to mention an unbelievable amount of our tax dollars to pay for all of these Patriot Act requirements voted on by a majority of our politicians.

And in the not so distant past, fanatical elements of the Christian religion have bombed doctors offices and Abortion clinics.

I am just not sure how you can allow political discussion without allowing religious discussion.
There is either open discussion or there is not. I vote for open discussion.

And I am happy that I am allowed to say all this in my home forum...

As for me personally... I am neither here nor there, the classic fence sitter.

[Fl_Gulfer]

I think they should just take those threads to a different site or email each other. Thats just my Political view. I don't believe in anything except my camera.

[palmor]

One final thought, most of the people I have seen complaining about 'those' threads, don't even get involved in them. The word 'Busybody' comes to mind.

I guess I'm a "Busybody then" as I complained about a recent thread where I thought some of the posts where absolutely moderation worthy. My only post in that thread was to call out the worst offender. I'll give props to him because he seemed to stop these types of post after.

To you Naysayers I say "The forum has thrived so far, do you really want to change it and risk becoming just like the other forums?".

IMO that argument carries zero weight. The forum won't change one ounce if we don't allow or closely moderate these types of discussions.

If you don't want to be offended by them, don't read them, it's not rocket science.

So why should I have to look at some people's political message in their signatures OUTSIDE of the General Talk?

It isn't political threads that offend me it is the deterioration of the behavior of individuals in those threads that offends me. So what you are saying is that I should somehow know ahead of time, before clicking on a thread, that things like "Or starts another circle jerk", "idiots in Mexifornia", "Look at the idiot and the murderer each from Mass" (and I could go on ) are in that thread and I shouldn't click on it to avoid being offended. I don't know, that is beyond "Rocket Science" for me

An attack on forums members political or religious beliefs is an attack on those forum members IMO and just shouldn't be allowed. It is one thing to debate and respectfully disagree but that isn't where a lot of these discussions go. If we want to HEAVILY moderate those threads fine but I really don't see the point in allowing them at all other then satisfying the few people who really like to participate in them.


Oh well, in the end it is up to Adam



John

[jimH]

Let's see, what were we talking about? Oh yeah.. this is a "Pentax" Forum, isn't it?

[Adam]

The poll is now closed.

52 (40.94%) voted in favor of religious/political threads, while 75 (59.06%) thought they shouldn't have a place here on the forum.

At this time, I will take no action and the General Talk rules will remain unmodified. However, should any future religious/political threads go out of hand to the point where they negatively influence the forum community as a whole, such threads will no longer be allowed.