[Adam]

My policy thus far cancerning religious and political threads in the off-topic forum has been to allow them, yet also to close any threads that seemingly went off topic or turned into flame wars.

However, it has been voiced by several members that such threads are generally unwanted, typically end in pointless arguments, have no validity, and accomplish little more than irritation of other forum members.

I'm thus creating a poll to guage the community's stance on this. Should a majority agree that threads of the above type should see a zero-tolerance policy in the future, the General Talk forum rules will be modified to reflect this.

I'd like to see as many votes as possible; votes are not publicly viewable.

Thanks!

Adam
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[MrApollinax]

I think in General Talk you should allow the discussions as long as people play nice. If they cannot do that lock the thread. What about adding a Politics/Religion Subform or thread Title? That way those who do not want to read or participate can do so. If they find the contents of the thread offensive they would have at least had to ignore the fact that the thread was marked as such.

[Adam]

I will not add a sub-forum (junkyard) for that. And it seems that many people can't play nice and instead make idiotic posts in political threads.

[SteveM]

I would love to see pictures of Ramadan.....Honika.....Christmas...or Clinton...Chirchill....whoever, but I would like to enjoy my time here sharing ideas or thoughts about photography.......and I'd like to do that without having to discuss religion or politics. There are plenty of places to make those points past what is from my opinion a site that is a release...a hobby...a profession, a passion....that doesn't need to be driven by something else.

[m8o]

non-believers, believers, "born agains", atheists, fundamentalists, infidels, violent radicals, conscientious objectors, holy rollers, agnostics ... err, wickens!

Threads/post on this subject lead to pretty much just one thing...

( that was so 'me' from maybe 10 to 20 years ago! )



I stay away from them now; not worth the effort. I'd I'm sure it's not worth the moderation effort either.

[SpecialK]

I have no interest in religion. politics, or golf - and even less for threads about them.

Although my "this is America" voice votes for freedom of speech, on a photo forum like this, I would not object to a ban.

[roentarre]

I stay away from them now; not worth the effort. I'd I'm sure it's not worth the moderation effort either.

Well said.

I enjoy some of the political and religious threads. I think most religious ones get stopped dead in their tracks, religion seems to be a no go area.
I don't enjoy some of the insults that creep into these threads, if people can't keep their cool on the internet, they must get into a lot of fights in the real world if they go out. I've been guilty of it myself and each occasion with hindsight it has been a case of me venting over something else in my life or I was tired and should have been asleep.
Moderating these threads is a minefield because then the moderators are accused of censorship or interrupting the flow of the forum or plain old meddling.
By moderating these threads we are actually trying to protect you guys right to have these discussions. If you can't cool it, we will cool it for you until those discussions aren't available to you at all.
While I think of it, thank you to all the members who have reported threads that have crossed a line.
Thank you very much also to Adam for all the latitude he has given so that members can discuss other topics with their Pentax colleagues on the forum. I think it's a shame that it has reached the point where Adam has had to start this poll, yet even in that Adam is gracious enough to give all of us the opportunity to decide the content of the General Talk forum.
I personally think that the General Talk forum is one of the things that sets Pentax Forums apart from the other camera forums and that it's a shame if it has become
necessary to curb that activity.
I hope that every one who votes put a little thought into their decision making.
I'd also like to suggest the possibility of a probation period for these type of discussions, it would be a good exercise to see how adult we can all be.

[m8o]

I've been so busy working until 1am, lately 2:30am, 6 or 7 days a week for months now, I haven't ventured beyond a few of the forum sections that most interest me to see what is described and realize this forum isn't immune to the issues that plague all others...

[Douglas_of_Sweden]

Before the last American election there were several long threads on American politics. For what it is worth, despite that I did not engaged myself in these threads, I have learned a lot from them about the U.S. and Americans in general from reading parts of those threads. Media of course covered the elections a lot over here, but if ever "normal" individuals are interviewed it's for a few seconds in a news broadcast, which gives very little. Being a scientist active in research, I do have some American colleagues that I know well enough to get a bit of their view on politics, but then I never trust them to be representative since we scientist seams to be a bit of an international sub community that has so much in common whereever we are. So it has been very interresting to me to read about the political views from people with very different background with nothing in common besides having a Pentax (which I don't think bias the political ideas). Since some non-U.S. citizens also engaged in those threads it may be that some of you Americans also learned a bit of how others look at you (?). Though the American election is a good example, there are other subjects, for example current economical problems, that has given the same valuable insights. I would find it sad if this possibility would be removed, though I can understand that those discussions that go wrong is a pain for Adam and the moderators.

Another thing is that I'm wondering how you will draw the line. Say that a thread starts on the current lack of new offerings from all DSLR manufacturers, Pentax in particular, someone will say that it is not surprising since the economics is so bad, and from the current economical situation we are just a few posts away from politics and this may even in some sence be relevant for a camera discussion. It is easy to think of other difficult cases: say that someone post pictures that show poor people living on the streets...only a post away from politics. Or the important matter of how photographers are treated by the police...only a post away from politics. In some sence, everything is politics, not party-politics, but politics in some way.

Religion...how will you deal with the not so small group who appear to worship their lenses???

[ftpaddict]

These talks should go to their appropriate forum, not in a place where photography is the point of interest.

I see those topics as Pandora's box or can of worms: no good will come from them. There are a gazillion different forums covering politics, religion and whatever so there isn't really need to contaminate a photography forum with them.

I admit that general well-mannered off-topic discussions are usually OK, but these topics in question tend to become nasty sooner or later.

[mickeyobe]

Ban them outright.

This site is about photography.
It is and hopefully will remain a haven from our daily media barrage of wars and politics and crime and general global mayhem.

Mickey

[WheresWaldo]

I enjoy some of the political and religious threads. I think most religious ones get stopped dead in their tracks, religion seems to be a no go area.
I don't enjoy some of the insults that creep into these threads, if people can't keep their cool on the internet, they must get into a lot of fights in the real world if they go out. I've been guilty of it myself and each occasion with hindsight it has been a case of me venting over something else in my life or I was tired and should have been asleep.

This is one of the biggest misnomers on the internet, many of the insulters would not be if it were not for the anonymity that being behind a pseudonym brings them, in fact many are really cowardly or timid.

Moderating these threads is a minefield because then the moderators are accused of censorship or interrupting the flow of the forum or plain old meddling.
By moderating these threads we are actually trying to protect you guys right to have these discussions. If you can't cool it, we will cool it for you until those discussions aren't available to you at all.
While I think of it, thank you to all the members who have reported threads that have crossed a line.

Just the sheer amount of work involved in monitoring threads, even if you just monitor the threads reported by another user would be enough work for a lifetime. In my opinion either leave them be or sensor so much language as to make those threads ineffective at saying anything. Eventually people will find another board where they can express whatever contrarian opinions they would like, and generally leave this to more on topic posts. If a poster is so offended and claims censorship and leaves the PF community, most likely that poster was adding very little of anything valuable.

Thank you very much also to Adam for all the latitude he has given so that members can discuss other topics with their Pentax colleagues on the forum. I think it's a shame that it has reached the point where Adam has had to start this poll, yet even in that Adam is gracious enough to give all of us the opportunity to decide the content of the General Talk forum.
I personally think that the General Talk forum is one of the things that sets Pentax Forums apart from the other camera forums and that it's a shame if it has become necessary to curb that activity.
I hope that every one who votes put a little thought into their decision making.
I'd also like to suggest the possibility of a probation period for these type of discussions, it would be a good exercise to see how adult we can all be.

Not sure I agree 100% but it is Adam's forum. I rarely venture into these discussions as I have other more important (to me) hobbies besides Photography so that I can get my fill of these types of posts elsewhere. Because of that and not really having a strong opinion one way or another I did not vote.

[J.Scott]

... I'd like to see as many votes as possible; votes are not publicly viewable.

Thanks!

What kind of democracy is this? I get to vote but can't see the results! This is an outrage!
Why I otta ....!
(Sorry, how did politics creep into this post?)


Seriously Adam, this forum is your baby.
Raise it the way you want it to grow.
Get tough! Remember the Good Book says 'Spare the rod and you'll spoil the child!'
(Whoops! Damn it, now I've leaked religion into this discussion!)

...I'm going to leave and take some pictures with my politically indifferent and religiously ignorant Pentax camera.