Question K-7 raffle??

Parallax · 08-24-2009, 02:30 PM

You may want to check the legality of this. In most states, and many countries, a raffle is considered gambling and is illegal unless the proceeds go to a bona fide charity.

**rayallen** · 08-24-2009, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by Parallax

You may want to check the legality of this. In most states, and many countries, a raffle is considered gambling and is illegal unless the proceeds go to a bona fide charity.

So, we'll do it in a state in a country where it is legal!

Damn Brit · 08-24-2009, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by Parallax

You may want to check the legality of this. In most states, and many countries, a raffle is considered gambling and is illegal unless the proceeds go to a bona fide charity.

Which is why I suggested this; https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/714661-post10.html

séamuis · 08-25-2009, 05:27 AM

Originally posted by Damn Brit

Which is why I suggested this; https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/714661-post10.html

I would be on board for both options, but I think if we worked at it hard enough we could get at least Pentax USA involved, and possibly give a part of the proceeds to charity? maybe that could get around some gambling laws? I think your idea is good gary, especially if we can cut some sort of deal with Pentax on bulk orders, but I fear we wont get near enough funds raised for such a thing to work. even if we were to set some limitations on who can be involved ie: more senior members a, "qualification(s)" of sorts. but even then we are looking at a large amount of total money, given the size of this community, and I certainly would not want to alienate people. (though I understand that may be the only way.) I wont underestimate this community though. what would be a ballpark figure on a price per body that we might be looking at?

vizjerei · 08-25-2009, 06:08 AM

this sounds exciting

Leaf Fan · 08-25-2009, 06:10 AM

I'm definitely interested, as long as Canadians could participate, and I'm waiting with baited breath to see what the final format of this "raffle" would be.

Wildnsyko · 08-25-2009, 08:01 AM

Count me in!!

**EsBee** · 08-25-2009, 08:21 AM

I would be interested also.

Parallax · 08-25-2009, 08:29 AM

Originally posted by Damn Brit

Which is why I suggested this; https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/714661-post10.html

Does the term "pyramid scheme" ring a bell? Ask Bernie Madhoff how that worked out for him.

Originally posted by séamuis

I would be on board for both options, but I think if we worked at it hard enough we could get at least Pentax USA involved, and possibly give a part of the proceeds to charity? .......................

I think that is the only way it could be legal. Everything over and above the costs (the camera, shipping, administrative, etc.) would be donated. Perhaps the choice of to whom the proceeds would be donated could be part of the raffle; the winner gets to pick or maybe the choice could be a second place prize.

I'm not trying to p*ss on anybody's campfire here, and I'm not a lawyer; but I really like this forum and I would just hate to see anybody's status changed from "administrator" or "Moderator" to "Inmate"

Damn Brit · 08-25-2009, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by séamuis

I would be on board for both options, but I think if we worked at it hard enough we could get at least Pentax USA involved, and possibly give a part of the proceeds to charity? maybe that could get around some gambling laws? I think your idea is good gary, especially if we can cut some sort of deal with Pentax on bulk orders, but I fear we wont get near enough funds raised for such a thing to work. even if we were to set some limitations on who can be involved ie: more senior members a, "qualification(s)" of sorts. but even then we are looking at a large amount of total money, given the size of this community, and I certainly would not want to alienate people. (though I understand that may be the only way.) I wont underestimate this community though. what would be a ballpark figure on a price per body that we might be looking at?

If 24 of us put in $50 a month we would all have a K-7 in two years (based on$1200)
As the price went down, there would be a balance carried forward and some months, two people would get a camera. When the person gets the camera is based on chance. It would also mean that allowing for price drops, we would all end up paying the same price for our K-7 which should be lower than the current price.

Originally posted by Parallax

Does the term "pyramid scheme" ring a bell? Ask Bernie Madhoff how that worked out for him.

I think that is the only way it could be legal. Everything over and above the costs (the camera, shipping, administrative, etc.) would be donated. Perhaps the choice of to whom the proceeds would be donated could be part of the raffle; the winner gets to pick or maybe the choice could be a second place prize.

I'm not trying to p*ss on anybody's campfire here, and I'm not a lawyer; but I really like this forum and I would just hate to see anybody's status changed from "administrator" or "Moderator" to "Inmate"

I'd consider it more of a savings club with an element of chance thrown in for fun. No one will be making a profit form it. It's not gambling because everyone wins in the end. The only legal difficulty I see is getting people to commit to the monthly payment.

daacon · 08-26-2009, 06:14 AM

My wife does something very similar called the 300 club. A bunch of them get together once a month. At each get together they all pay $25.00 then at the end of the evening a name is drawn and that person get the proceeds ($300 ) Once you have won your name is taken out of the draw until everyone else has 'won'.

I really like the idea - assuming there are some advantages.

1. Pentax (or some distributor) is involved and we get some sort of discount / Perk (otherwise EBay could be a better deal)

2. The international thing is handled meaning warranties, rebates all the stuff are valid outside the US market

I also think 24 months might be too long a cycle - I suppose it depends on how many members participate but I would like to see a 12 - 18 month cycle.

Damn Brit · 08-26-2009, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by daacon

I also think 24 months might be too long a cycle - I suppose it depends on how many members participate but I would like to see a 12 - 18 month cycle.

It probably would be less than 24 months Dave allowing for the price going down.

skinja · 08-26-2009, 12:28 PM

I'm no lawyer but that may be tough legally. If you can make some thing work, that would be great. I'm interested.

Maybe a coop savings like some else mentioned. for a body only to start with, everyone interested deposits a set value say $50 a month for 12 month period give or take. If you had a 100 people willing to commit for a given time, and all the money went into an escrow account. you would have 60K in the bank at the end of a year, at that point you should be pretty close to being able to place an order for a 100 camera's for those that fulfilled there agreement. The interest could then be donated to the forum.

Not sure if this works legally either but it may have a better chance. Maybe there is a lawyer in the group that would be willing to do some pro bono work for the good of the forum.

Just a thought.

John

Adam · 08-26-2009, 01:46 PM

Damn Brit · 08-26-2009, 02:14 PM

Adam can lend us the money for the cameras at a low interest rate, the interest goes to the forum.
Pentax Forums Credit Union.
We can look at mortgages next.

More seriously but slightly OT, I wonder if there's any mileage in forming a Coop/Club and using our buying power to get group rates on equipment and other stuff.

08-25-2009, 08:29 AM	#24
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by Damn Brit Which is why I suggested this; https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/714661-post10.html Does the term "pyramid scheme" ring a bell? Ask Bernie Madhoff how that worked out for him. Originally posted by séamuis I would be on board for both options, but I think if we worked at it hard enough we could get at least Pentax USA involved, and possibly give a part of the proceeds to charity? ....................... I think that is the only way it could be legal. Everything over and above the costs (the camera, shipping, administrative, etc.) would be donated. Perhaps the choice of to whom the proceeds would be donated could be part of the raffle; the winner gets to pick or maybe the choice could be a second place prize. I'm not trying to pss on anybody's campfire here, and I'm not a lawyer; but I really like this forum and I would just hate to see anybody's status changed from "administrator" or "Moderator" to "Inmate" Last edited by Parallax; 08-25-2009 at 03:07 PM.*

08-26-2009, 12:28 PM	#28
skinja Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Denver, Co Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 968	A world wide raffle? I'm no lawyer but that may be tough legally. If you can make some thing work, that would be great. I'm interested. Maybe a coop savings like some else mentioned. for a body only to start with, everyone interested deposits a set value say $50 a month for 12 month period give or take. If you had a 100 people willing to commit for a given time, and all the money went into an escrow account. you would have 60K in the bank at the end of a year, at that point you should be pretty close to being able to place an order for a 100 camera's for those that fulfilled there agreement. The interest could then be donated to the forum. Not sure if this works legally either but it may have a better chance. Maybe there is a lawyer in the group that would be willing to do some pro bono work for the good of the forum. Just a thought. John

08-26-2009, 01:46 PM	#29
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,597	Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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08-24-2009, 02:30 PM	#16
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	You may want to check the legality of this. In most states, and many countries, a raffle is considered gambling and is illegal unless the proceeds go to a bona fide charity.

08-24-2009, 03:47 PM	#17
rayallen Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Forresters Beach, NSW, Australia. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,014	Originally posted by Parallax You may want to check the legality of this. In most states, and many countries, a raffle is considered gambling and is illegal unless the proceeds go to a bona fide charity. So, we'll do it in a state in a country where it is legal!

08-24-2009, 04:12 PM	#18
Damn Brit Guest	Originally posted by Parallax You may want to check the legality of this. In most states, and many countries, a raffle is considered gambling and is illegal unless the proceeds go to a bona fide charity. Which is why I suggested this; https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/714661-post10.html

08-25-2009, 05:27 AM	#19
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by Damn Brit Which is why I suggested this; https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/714661-post10.html I would be on board for both options, but I think if we worked at it hard enough we could get at least Pentax USA involved, and possibly give a part of the proceeds to charity? maybe that could get around some gambling laws? I think your idea is good gary, especially if we can cut some sort of deal with Pentax on bulk orders, but I fear we wont get near enough funds raised for such a thing to work. even if we were to set some limitations on who can be involved ie: more senior members a, "qualification(s)" of sorts. but even then we are looking at a large amount of total money, given the size of this community, and I certainly would not want to alienate people. (though I understand that may be the only way.) I wont underestimate this community though. what would be a ballpark figure on a price per body that we might be looking at?

08-25-2009, 06:08 AM	#20
vizjerei Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,418	this sounds exciting

08-25-2009, 06:10 AM	#21
Leaf Fan Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Canada eh! Photos: Gallery Posts: 673	I'm definitely interested, as long as Canadians could participate, and I'm waiting with baited breath to see what the final format of this "raffle" would be.

08-25-2009, 08:01 AM	#22
Wildnsyko Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Southeast MO Photos: Gallery Posts: 366	Count me in!!

08-25-2009, 08:21 AM	#23
EsBee Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: National Capital Region Posts: 739	I would be interested also.

08-25-2009, 04:56 PM	#25
Damn Brit Guest	Originally posted by séamuis I would be on board for both options, but I think if we worked at it hard enough we could get at least Pentax USA involved, and possibly give a part of the proceeds to charity? maybe that could get around some gambling laws? I think your idea is good gary, especially if we can cut some sort of deal with Pentax on bulk orders, but I fear we wont get near enough funds raised for such a thing to work. even if we were to set some limitations on who can be involved ie: more senior members a, "qualification(s)" of sorts. but even then we are looking at a large amount of total money, given the size of this community, and I certainly would not want to alienate people. (though I understand that may be the only way.) I wont underestimate this community though. what would be a ballpark figure on a price per body that we might be looking at? If 24 of us put in $50 a month we would all have a K-7 in two years (based on$1200) As the price went down, there would be a balance carried forward and some months, two people would get a camera. When the person gets the camera is based on chance. It would also mean that allowing for price drops, we would all end up paying the same price for our K-7 which should be lower than the current price. Originally posted by Parallax Does the term "pyramid scheme" ring a bell? Ask Bernie Madhoff how that worked out for him. I think that is the only way it could be legal. Everything over and above the costs (the camera, shipping, administrative, etc.) would be donated. Perhaps the choice of to whom the proceeds would be donated could be part of the raffle; the winner gets to pick or maybe the choice could be a second place prize. I'm not trying to p*ss on anybody's campfire here, and I'm not a lawyer; but I really like this forum and I would just hate to see anybody's status changed from "administrator" or "Moderator" to "Inmate" I'd consider it more of a savings club with an element of chance thrown in for fun. No one will be making a profit form it. It's not gambling because everyone wins in the end. The only legal difficulty I see is getting people to commit to the monthly payment.

08-26-2009, 06:14 AM	#26
daacon Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Alberta,Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 20,914	My wife does something very similar called the 300 club. A bunch of them get together once a month. At each get together they all pay $25.00 then at the end of the evening a name is drawn and that person get the proceeds ($300 ) Once you have won your name is taken out of the draw until everyone else has 'won'. I really like the idea - assuming there are some advantages. 1. Pentax (or some distributor) is involved and we get some sort of discount / Perk (otherwise EBay could be a better deal) 2. The international thing is handled meaning warranties, rebates all the stuff are valid outside the US market I also think 24 months might be too long a cycle - I suppose it depends on how many members participate but I would like to see a 12 - 18 month cycle.

08-26-2009, 11:42 AM	#27
Damn Brit Guest	Originally posted by daacon I also think 24 months might be too long a cycle - I suppose it depends on how many members participate but I would like to see a 12 - 18 month cycle. It probably would be less than 24 months Dave allowing for the price going down.

08-26-2009, 02:14 PM	#30
Damn Brit Guest	Adam can lend us the money for the cameras at a low interest rate, the interest goes to the forum. Pentax Forums Credit Union. We can look at mortgages next. More seriously but slightly OT, I wonder if there's any mileage in forming a Coop/Club and using our buying power to get group rates on equipment and other stuff.