blue flowers turn purple????

adwb · 05-26-2010, 06:20 AM

I have two laptops one on vista and one on XP both have the same photoshop installed, both have the same Epson 2880 printer drivers installed. both have the same profiles installed for printing. I have both of them screen calibrated so with the same image they both look nearly the same, if I print from either one using identical print settings the prints are almost identical, except:--
for blue bells!!!
on one the Epson print preview shows the flowers blue and one the other purple.Yet the rest of the image grass trees etc are almost the same, and this is what gets printed, both have nearly the same tones and hues for the greens, browns etc but not the flowers????
oh and any image with blue sky prints out the same [correctly ] from either laptop!!
why blue bells only ?? it's driving me mad.
Alistair

stevebrot · 05-26-2010, 09:25 AM

There are a number of factors at work here, but it may be enough to say that the range of blue through violet and purple is problematic, particularly with flowers. Many digital cameras CANNOT accurately capture certain blue-to-purple flower colors and many displays cannot accurately render the same. This is true regardless of monitor calibration. Much of the same goes for printers, particularly if you are using ICM to insure color match between monitor and printer.

Steve

Alfisti · 05-26-2010, 11:29 AM

Are you sure you want to know the answer? I mean REALLY sure?

be careful what you wish for, sometimes it's better to be ignorant. once you put a toe in the water, she'll swallow you whole and there is no turning back.

adwb · 05-26-2010, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by Alfisti

Are you sure you want to know the answer? I mean REALLY sure?

be careful what you wish for, sometimes it's better to be ignorant. once you put a toe in the water, she'll swallow you whole and there is no turning back.

Oh yea, I need to know, the laptop that produces the purple prints of blue flowers belong to her what stays at home, sometimes also known as SHE who must be obeyed. If I don't fix it it will cost me plenty.

Alfisti · 05-26-2010, 06:31 PM

OK sir, graba coffe and maybe a shot of scotch.

Start here and read. Then read some more .... then get back to us with questions.

Color Management Introduction

Digital Dog :: Main

summonbaka · 06-01-2010, 10:06 AM

Just for the sake of it. Try this (it might or might not help in any way):
Grab the raw of the image you wanted to print with the bluebells.
After editing your image in raw processing, mark the output to sRGB and save AND the same with AdobeRGB and save it also.
Grab both images and print them from both computers. Remember to mark which one are sRGB and Adobe. Are there any differences?

jeffkrol · 06-12-2010, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by adwb

I have two laptops one on vista and one on XP both have the same photoshop installed, both have the same Epson 2880 printer drivers installed. both have the same profiles installed for printing. I have both of them screen calibrated so with the same image they both look nearly the same, if I print from either one using identical print settings the prints are almost identical, except:--
for blue bells!!!
on one the Epson print preview shows the flowers blue and one the other purple.Yet the rest of the image grass trees etc are almost the same, and this is what gets printed, both have nearly the same tones and hues for the greens, browns etc but not the flowers????
oh and any image with blue sky prints out the same [correctly ] from either laptop!!
why blue bells only ?? it's driving me mad.
Alistair

If I remember right there is a problem w/ "print preview" if you are using the printers print preview...
Why Does the Epson Print Preview Image Look so Bad? - Photo Tips @ Earthbound Light
To clear up a few things.. you are printing to the same printer correct?
that would eliminate differences in ink.

adwb · 06-13-2010, 01:28 AM

correct, same printer same ink, camera on Adobe RGB,printer profile on Argb. viewed in PS as Argb
Update to my original post, I did not express it to well, what was not clear was that the hue was out from either laptop, but neither is correct.
All the colours when printed from either PC are identical except the bluebells, on the one PC they look correct but print out very purple, and one the other they look correct as well but,print out as a purple hue , not blue , but not as bad as the first one.
no point in attaching them to the post as they will look blue.
I have found else where the comment that blue bells are notorious susceptible to colour shift due to their reflective properties. next year [ they are all gone] I will try with a cpl filter and at 90 degrees to the sun if possible.
Alistair

Alfisti · 06-14-2010, 07:28 AM

It's no tjust bluebells chief, ANYTHING with purple/blue/violet are notorious for hue shifts. It's virtually impossible to get it right unless you are super serious about colour.

shooz · 06-14-2010, 07:57 AM

This is purple.
Adjusted WB until I got it right.

adwb · 06-14-2010, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by shooz

This is purple.
Adjusted WB until I got it right.

nice image , my trouble is my screen images are right it the B****y prints that aren't and thats the problem trying to work out how to shift the hue on screen to get the print right, it does not matter to me what the screen looks like, its the print that counts and any way the altered image for printing is not to be seen by anyone but me ,the original will still be fine if I was going to post it or put on a website.
With a field of blue bells its not like altering an image like you posted sHooz,
that single flower you can isolate and work on but field full !! its a nightmare.
Alistair

stevebrot · 06-14-2010, 06:33 PM

@adwb

I don't know if you have figured it out yet, but there is no easy answer to your question and no easy solution to your quest. Here is a summary of what is:

What you see on the screen is not what will be printed, regardless of screen or printer calibration
Your printer has a color space with limited gamut. They all do and most have trouble rendering blue, violet, and purple. This is true regardless of what color space you define for your image (sRGB, aRGB, etc.). What you will always get is the intersection of what is requested and what is supported and/or a munging of one to fit the other.
There are a number of different ways to influence print rendering, though none can overcome the bullet point immediately above
Even skilled professional printmakers with commercial printers, inks, and papers require multiple attempts to get the desired rendering. This often requires close consultation with the customer and a lot of money changing hands. In some cases, the desired rendering is not possible and compromise is required.

Sorry...

Steve

adwb · 06-15-2010, 03:14 AM

yes I know
Alistair

Alfisti · 06-15-2010, 05:57 AM

Google a few stories on Cadbury's problems with their purple ....... interesting reading.

marcdsgn · 06-15-2010, 08:30 PM - **1 Like**

I haven't read all posts in this thread, so apologies of repeating thing:

A lot of discrepancy in colour matching between screen and print has to do with the RGB to CMYK conversion. This is especially noticeable if you've enhanced the colours in the Green/Blue space onscreen (The more vivid you make the green/blue tones, the more trouble the printer has matching those tones, often resulting in the tones looking more pink or yellow). The problem is there is no true green or blue ink in printers. Only cyan, magenta, yellow and black. And while magenta and yellow can mix well to create true red, orange and yellow tones, there are no two ink colours that will produce a vivid blue tone. Cyan is the closest thing to blue, but it already contains yellow.

The "cheat" is to convert your RGB image to a CMYK image onscreen if possible (you can do it in Photoshop) and enhance it from there. Colours will adjust within the boundaries of CMYK gamuts, so the screen will show a more accurate representation of how the print will look. Once you've finished editing, convert it back to RGB.

If you can't convert between CMYK and RGB, then see if your program has a gamut-warning setting. This will let you know if your enhancements have pulled the colours past the CMYK gamut as you edit.

05-26-2010, 06:20 AM	#1
adwb Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bristol UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,636	blue flowers turn purple???? I have two laptops one on vista and one on XP both have the same photoshop installed, both have the same Epson 2880 printer drivers installed. both have the same profiles installed for printing. I have both of them screen calibrated so with the same image they both look nearly the same, if I print from either one using identical print settings the prints are almost identical, except:-- for blue bells!!! on one the Epson print preview shows the flowers blue and one the other purple.Yet the rest of the image grass trees etc are almost the same, and this is what gets printed, both have nearly the same tones and hues for the greens, browns etc but not the flowers???? oh and any image with blue sky prints out the same [correctly ] from either laptop!! why blue bells only ?? it's driving me mad. Alistair

05-26-2010, 09:25 AM	#2
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	There are a number of factors at work here, but it may be enough to say that the range of blue through violet and purple is problematic, particularly with flowers. Many digital cameras CANNOT accurately capture certain blue-to-purple flower colors and many displays cannot accurately render the same. This is true regardless of monitor calibration. Much of the same goes for printers, particularly if you are using ICM to insure color match between monitor and printer. Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 05-26-2010 at 05:19 PM.

06-14-2010, 06:33 PM	#12
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	@adwb I don't know if you have figured it out yet, but there is no easy answer to your question and no easy solution to your quest. Here is a summary of what is: What you see on the screen is not what will be printed, regardless of screen or printer calibration Your printer has a color space with limited gamut. They all do and most have trouble rendering blue, violet, and purple. This is true regardless of what color space you define for your image (sRGB, aRGB, etc.). What you will always get is the intersection of what is requested and what is supported and/or a munging of one to fit the other. There are a number of different ways to influence print rendering, though none can overcome the bullet point immediately above Even skilled professional printmakers with commercial printers, inks, and papers require multiple attempts to get the desired rendering. This often requires close consultation with the customer and a lot of money changing hands. In some cases, the desired rendering is not possible and compromise is required. Sorry... Steve

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05-26-2010, 11:29 AM	#3
Alfisti Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toronto (for now) Posts: 1,748	Are you sure you want to know the answer? I mean REALLY sure? be careful what you wish for, sometimes it's better to be ignorant. once you put a toe in the water, she'll swallow you whole and there is no turning back.

05-26-2010, 05:05 PM	#4
adwb Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bristol UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,636 Original Poster	Originally posted by Alfisti Are you sure you want to know the answer? I mean REALLY sure? be careful what you wish for, sometimes it's better to be ignorant. once you put a toe in the water, she'll swallow you whole and there is no turning back. Oh yea, I need to know, the laptop that produces the purple prints of blue flowers belong to her what stays at home, sometimes also known as SHE who must be obeyed. If I don't fix it it will cost me plenty.

05-26-2010, 06:31 PM	#5
Alfisti Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toronto (for now) Posts: 1,748	OK sir, graba coffe and maybe a shot of scotch. Start here and read. Then read some more .... then get back to us with questions. Color Management Introduction Digital Dog :: Main

06-01-2010, 10:06 AM	#6
summonbaka Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Kagoshima, Japan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 237	Just for the sake of it. Try this (it might or might not help in any way): Grab the raw of the image you wanted to print with the bluebells. After editing your image in raw processing, mark the output to sRGB and save AND the same with AdobeRGB and save it also. Grab both images and print them from both computers. Remember to mark which one are sRGB and Adobe. Are there any differences?

06-12-2010, 08:55 PM	#7
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by adwb I have two laptops one on vista and one on XP both have the same photoshop installed, both have the same Epson 2880 printer drivers installed. both have the same profiles installed for printing. I have both of them screen calibrated so with the same image they both look nearly the same, if I print from either one using identical print settings the prints are almost identical, except:-- for blue bells!!! on one the Epson print preview shows the flowers blue and one the other purple.Yet the rest of the image grass trees etc are almost the same, and this is what gets printed, both have nearly the same tones and hues for the greens, browns etc but not the flowers???? oh and any image with blue sky prints out the same [correctly ] from either laptop!! why blue bells only ?? it's driving me mad. Alistair If I remember right there is a problem w/ "print preview" if you are using the printers print preview... Why Does the Epson Print Preview Image Look so Bad? - Photo Tips @ Earthbound Light To clear up a few things.. you are printing to the same printer correct? that would eliminate differences in ink.

06-13-2010, 01:28 AM	#8
adwb Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bristol UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,636 Original Poster	correct, same printer same ink, camera on Adobe RGB,printer profile on Argb. viewed in PS as Argb Update to my original post, I did not express it to well, what was not clear was that the hue was out from either laptop, but neither is correct. All the colours when printed from either PC are identical except the bluebells, on the one PC they look correct but print out very purple, and one the other they look correct as well but,print out as a purple hue , not blue , but not as bad as the first one. no point in attaching them to the post as they will look blue. I have found else where the comment that blue bells are notorious susceptible to colour shift due to their reflective properties. next year [ they are all gone] I will try with a cpl filter and at 90 degrees to the sun if possible. Alistair

06-14-2010, 07:28 AM	#9
Alfisti Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toronto (for now) Posts: 1,748	It's no tjust bluebells chief, ANYTHING with purple/blue/violet are notorious for hue shifts. It's virtually impossible to get it right unless you are super serious about colour.

06-14-2010, 05:23 PM	#11
adwb Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bristol UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,636 Original Poster	Originally posted by shooz This is purple. Adjusted WB until I got it right. nice image , my trouble is my screen images are right it the B****y prints that aren't and thats the problem trying to work out how to shift the hue on screen to get the print right, it does not matter to me what the screen looks like, its the print that counts and any way the altered image for printing is not to be seen by anyone but me ,the original will still be fine if I was going to post it or put on a website. With a field of blue bells its not like altering an image like you posted sHooz, that single flower you can isolate and work on but field full !! its a nightmare. Alistair

06-15-2010, 03:14 AM	#13
adwb Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bristol UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,636 Original Poster	yes I know Alistair

06-15-2010, 05:57 AM	#14
Alfisti Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toronto (for now) Posts: 1,748	Google a few stories on Cadbury's problems with their purple ....... interesting reading.

06-15-2010, 08:30 PM - 1 Like	#15
marcdsgn Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Queensland Photos: Gallery Posts: 265	I haven't read all posts in this thread, so apologies of repeating thing: A lot of discrepancy in colour matching between screen and print has to do with the RGB to CMYK conversion. This is especially noticeable if you've enhanced the colours in the Green/Blue space onscreen (The more vivid you make the green/blue tones, the more trouble the printer has matching those tones, often resulting in the tones looking more pink or yellow). The problem is there is no true green or blue ink in printers. Only cyan, magenta, yellow and black. And while magenta and yellow can mix well to create true red, orange and yellow tones, there are no two ink colours that will produce a vivid blue tone. Cyan is the closest thing to blue, but it already contains yellow. The "cheat" is to convert your RGB image to a CMYK image onscreen if possible (you can do it in Photoshop) and enhance it from there. Colours will adjust within the boundaries of CMYK gamuts, so the screen will show a more accurate representation of how the print will look. Once you've finished editing, convert it back to RGB. If you can't convert between CMYK and RGB, then see if your program has a gamut-warning setting. This will let you know if your enhancements have pulled the colours past the CMYK gamut as you edit.