[wowtip]

Hi,

Some background... I have always been fond of the colour output from Pentax JPEG and / or RAW images developed with either PPL or DCU. I have tried almost every other RAW converter out there for Windows / Linux, and although many (most) of them beat Pentax software in work flow, noise reduction, performance etc. etc. I never found any application that seemed to give the same level of "colour detail" as with Pentax Processed Images.

And don't get me wrong here, I am fully aware of that we with a good input profile and some (lots of) work can get exactly the same colour result as what we get from DCU4 / Pentax JPEG... But right there is where I got a bit tired of the whole process. Spending almost an hour perfecting colour and exposure, etc. in CaptureOne and the looking at the RAW+ JPEG image taken alongside with the PEF and realizing the JPEG from camera still has (imo) much better colours than what I managed to get from the payed for and in all other aspects superior application.

My next step down this path was to try out CaptureOne Pro, which gives the possibility of modifying and saving custom colour profiles. I spent an evening perfecting the profile (PM me if you are interested in getting a copy). Problem solved, everything looked great... But then some days later, I applied my new profile to some images taken in different conditions... And I was back on square one. They did not look horrible, but still flat and uninspiring compared to JPEG straight out of camera.

Tonight I rebooted into Linux and started playing around with the customized ICC profile I created in CaptureOne5Pro with UFRaw. To my delight it seemed like many images that got the "wrong" colour within CaptureOne using this profile could be made to look like Genuine Pentax Colour with some minor adjustments of Gamma / Linearity for the input ICC profile.

Very nice... until I got to some files where no amount of Gamma / Linearity adjustments would make it look "right", like the Pentax JPEG. After lots of curves adjustments and fiddling with colours it got close, but still not exactly what it should be... And by then it would have been faster working them through with DCU4 anyway.

Getting a bit tired of the whole mess I started searching the net for some kind of Official Pentax ICC profile, or something close to that. (I did search for this before, but...) Then I found this post...

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/digital-processing-software-printing/4972...tml#post475331

Reading through Soprano's post the term "AsShotICCProfile" caught my eye. Would that mean PEF / Pentax DNG has an embedded ICC profile customized for the specific shot taken? That would explain why a custom ICC profile would work perfectly for some shots, taken in similar conditions, but look somewhat wrong / flat with shots taken in other conditions.

So... The reason for this longish rant is to see if there is anyone around here that can confirm or disprove that Pentax Software use this "secret" embedded ICC in RAW files, which other applications seemingly do not support?

If this is the case, then I guess I can end my quest for the holy grail of Pentax ICC profiles and stick with my slow and frustrating DCU / PPL.

[Miguel]

I don't believe there are Pentax-specific RAW profiles. I would think there is a reference profile for the small embedded jpeg file that is generated with every RAW file, but that's just for looking at and not working on. RAW is RAW.

There are embedded JPEG profiles such as "natural" and "vibrant" that Pentax software can tap into so you can replicate these in RAW. Lightroom offers similar camera-specific profiles for rendering Canon and Nikon RAW images, but alas no Pentax.

Perhaps a contributing reason to your not obtaining consistent colors between software tools is due to lack of color management? I'm not savvy enough about Linux, but is there OS-level color management like ColorSync performs for Mac OS?

And then I'd ask if your workflow is color managed including a calibrated and profiled monitor?

M

[jpette]

Yes i agree your say (PDU 4.31) Is very fine...
And so the Interface is one horror...
But i use, when precise work is nedded
Best regards Jpette

[wowtip]

I don't believe there are Pentax-specific RAW profiles. I would think there is a reference profile for the small embedded jpeg file that is generated with every RAW file, but that's just for looking at and not working on. RAW is RAW.

There are embedded JPEG profiles such as "natural" and "vibrant" that Pentax software can tap into so you can replicate these in RAW. Lightroom offers similar camera-specific profiles for rendering Canon and Nikon RAW images, but alas no Pentax.

Perhaps a contributing reason to your not obtaining consistent colors between software tools is due to lack of color management? I'm not savvy enough about Linux, but is there OS-level color management like ColorSync performs for Mac OS?

And then I'd ask if your workflow is color managed including a calibrated and profiled monitor?

M

Hi Miguel, thanks for replying.

Yes, it might be the embedded profile is the same as for the in camera JPEG, but from what I have seen it doesn't really explain why a customized profile that give Pentax-like colours in shots taken in similar lighting conditions would look anything like Pentax when used on shots taken in other conditions. But it might be that my customized profile is not really accurate, it just looks like that when used on similar light conditions shots.

Not too much of a colour managed environment here, except for the screen, which is calibrated. But prints and what I see on screen looks the same, ie JPEGs and PEFs developed with DCU4 looks the way I would like and most shots from other RAW developing software looks flat, colour wise, but can be processed to something similar with an effort.

What I am looking for, and have not yet found is a ICC profile that would give the same colours as Pentax JPEG / DCU4 consistently, without all the extra work. DCU4 gives great colours, but leaves much to be desired in other ares, such as lifting shadows and under exposed shots.

[wowtip]

Yes i agree your say (PDU 4.31) Is very fine...
And so the Interface is one horror...
But i use, when precise work is nedded
Best regards Jpette

Hi Jpette,

Yes, that is exactly what I do right now, using CaptureOne where it is good enough or DCU4 can't do the processing I want to do, but using DCU4 when other apps can't quite match the colour. That is, when the embedded JPEG looks much better colour wise than what I can reproduce with C1 with a reasonable amount of work.

But to me it is a bit of a pain to have a two application RAW workflow. And this is kind of my reason for this ICC profile quest, I don't think we can expect DCU to get much more advanced, so the only way to go seems to be to find a reasonably advanced developing software that somehow can match DCU4 colour output.

[raider]

I guess i am in the same shoes.

I use PSE7 to process my RAW files but i have never really understood the tricks to make the raw conversion turn up a colour as punchy as the jpg created by my k-7 if i shoot raw+jpeg mode.

So while i like PSE7's DAM workflow, I sorta give up on the RAW conversion stuff. I am just no good at this. I still prefer the output from DCU but then again, I find the workflow in DCU difficult.

I guess I am stuck.

[Penty]

Same here. I like the output from PDCU 4, but I prefer the speed, interface and noise reduction of Lightroom and some other RAW converters. I also spent hours and hours to get the Pentax-like colours and tones from other applications with no luck so far.

[wowtip]

If you would like you can try my customized ICC profile I made in CaptureOne.

PentaxK20D-Color_Corrected5.icm

This one can be used with CaptureOne, by replacing the file PentaxK20D-Generic.icm with the one I linked. Make sure you have a backup of the original PentaxK20D-Generic.icm in some safe place before doing this!

This profile can be renamed to PentaxK20D-Color_Corrected5.icc and used in most RAW apps, but will need som input curve adjustments for a nice result.

This ICC is not a perfect replacement for Pentax colours, but much better than what is normally provided with most apps, imho.

[Penty]

Same here. I like the output from PDCU 4, but I prefer the speed, interface and noise reduction of Lightroom and some other RAW converters. I also spent hours and hours to get the Pentax-like colours and tones from other applications with no luck so far.

UPDATE

First of all, sorry for my bad English.
Secondly, if you like the Pentax-like colours and tones from PDCU 4, but you hate the noise reduction and the not too user-friendly GUI and speed of this program you would like this "news".
The last 2 days I downloaded and tried the free trial version of DxO Optics Pro 6.5.2 and the results I got from this application are beyond my best expectations. It looks like I've found the appropriate replacement of PDCU 4.
When I look at the output pictures from DXO, the colours and tones are almost perfectly like the ones from the Silkypix based Pentax application. It's 99% of the same. The real surprises come when you look the pictures at 100% magnification. The sharpening and noise reduction are amazing. No halos, no artefacts. I have never seen anything like this.
And of course, the GUI is much more logical and user-friendly. The program reacts faster pulling the sliders on my old machine, though, it's not faster than LR3, I think. There is one thing which is waaay slower than PDCU 4 or LR3: the final rendering.
This application gives new life to my old K10D and it squeezing the maximum from the old sensor.
Give it a try, you won't regret.

[audiobomber]

I use DCU4 for basic editing and raw conversion, then fine tune the jpegs with other softwares if required. Works well for me, but then I consider processing a chore.