[bpv_UW]

Looking to upgrade photo editing software (currently have PE6) and wanted to get some input regarding how people feel about LR3 vs. CS5. I realize the programs have somewhat different functionality, with LR3 mainly an organizing program with embedded image editing capabilities and CS5 a more powerful editing tool but absent any real organizer. For the Photoshop users around here, which one(s) do most people use? Are you able to complete your entire RAW workflow (I shoot mostly RAW) in LR3, or are there necessary image editing tasks that it isn't capable of?

Would love to hear input on this.

Thanks,
Brandon

[einstrigger]

Here's my take. CS5 is extremely powerful at what it does, which is essentially photo editing and manipulation. Basically, corrections that LR3 can do, you can do in CS5 as well. What you can't do in CS5 though, is organize and make corrections to hundreds of files at a time. Similar to you, I only shoot raw. Hundreds of raws. More often then not, I fill up an 8GB SDHC card with about 320+ DNG images before even dumping it into the computer. Having to go through Adobe Camera Raw for each DNG file through CS5 would tedious and tiresome. But with LR3, you can import and apply custom presets (basically your basic edits like exposure, temp, brightness, contrast, color, etc.) to all 320+ images at a time. If you're working with raws, LR3 should be plenty adequate to adjust those settings I mentioned. In addition, the new noise reduction feature is pretty good as well, way better than LR2.

Anyhow, I boil it down to workflow vs. photo manipulation. Since I don't do much of the latter, LR3 is more than adequate.

[Jasvox]

You are somewhat right about the differences of LR3 v. CS5, but in a generalized way I think. I will keep this short, If you spend a lot of time or have an interest in heavy photo manipulation, then the CS may be your best bet from the start. If you dont do a whole lot of that and want a piece of software which handles your files, includes a very nice raw converter and in need of something to more or less "develop" your digital film, then LR is quite capable and in my 2 years of experience with it, a fantastic tool. I am not sure you can actually ask which is better in a "versus" sort of way since one does one thing and the other does another, with some commonalities of course. You may need to ask yourself which software YOU need the most and build from there. I use LR for all my raw development and when I want to do some work to bring out the best in my photos. Rarely do I need something as complex as CS, but when I do, GIMP works just as well and hey, it's priced right too (free).
Those who are CS wizards and use it heavily will of course offer more solid ideas and suggestions based on their experience (and my lack of) with CS4/5, etc.

Jason

[Miguel]

The combination of PSE6 and Lightroom 3.x should serve you well.

I was an original corporate beta tester of Photoshop in the latter 80s. It was amazing then and is even more so now. That said, it is now aimed more at scientific and technical users. PSE will get you 70% of the functionality of Photoshop and my guess is that's about all you need. The learning curve of CS5 is fierce.

I only dip into Photoshop about 7% of the time. LR is for when you need to improve a single image within itself. The development tools are outstanding now. The reality that all your edits are non-destructive in Lightroom is worth the price of the application alone. It's also a simple click to create different virtual copies of an image. Great for B&W conversions (which LR does exceptionally well).

Photoshop is for mixing components of multiple images, say a sky from one picture blended with a foreground from another. I use Photoshop for some advanced cloning, background extraction, gradient work, and fancy work-related requirements like CMYK conversion.

Most of my peers are moving to Lightroom very rapidly. It lets you get one picture right and then copy/paste attributes like WB, curves, sharpening, NR to other pictures taken in the same environment. Saves hours of work when you have to deal with thousands of image files.

The management of files and collections is excellent and intuitive. The performance with 100,000 images is quite acceptable. It is very customizable.


Both PSE and LR will work together very easily. Do realize that both apps share the same ACR RAW processing engine. Within LR you can one-click an image over to PSE, make your edits, save it, and the whole image automatically comes back into LR with a revised version name.

LR is process-driven, unlike most post-processing tools (excepting the excellent Aperture), so there is a bit of a learning curve to get into the flow. Why don't you download the free 30-day trial and play?

M

[JohnBee]

What you can't do in CS5 though, is organize and make corrections to hundreds of files at a time.

While I think you may be right about organizing(I just categorize my shoots manually), I do know that with Photoshop(assuming this is what the OP meant by CS5), that you can batch process images with ACR(RAW and JPG alike). Which would imply custom presets and/or whatever other settings you would like to apply to your images at that particular time.

So I thought I'd throw that out there.

[artobest]

That said, it is now aimed more at scientific and technical users ...
Photoshop is for mixing components of multiple images, say a sky from one picture blended with a foreground from another....
M

I don't disagree with your assessment of Lightroom, but I take issue with those two statements. PS is a photographer's tool. It is not solely for making composite or technical images. I use it mainly for its phenomenal layering, blending and masking capabilities when optimising single images. Think Ansel Adams in the darkroom with a bunch of dodging and burning tools, only way, way more advanced.

[Miguel]

Perhaps you didn't read my next sentence.

The capabilities of Photoshop on a single image or multiple images far exceed those offered by any other tool. I'm just not up for writing a book-length response listing them. I think the key here are the OP's requirements and how sophisticated they are.

M

[Wheatfield]

Lightroom is a great organizational tool with limited editing capabilities.
Photoshop (combined with Bridge and ACR) is a great organizational tool that can pretty much do everything that Lightroom can do WRT image management, and then adds on about a million % more image editing capabilities.
I use both, but if I had to choose one or the other, Lightroom would be gone.
I believe you can work on large numbers of files at a time in PS ACR. I'm pretty sure post #2 has it wrong in that regard.

[KxBlaze]

CS5 a more powerful editing tool but absent any real organizer. For the Photoshop users around here, which one(s) do most people use? Are you able to complete your entire RAW workflow (I shoot mostly RAW) in LR3, or are there necessary image editing tasks that it isn't capable of?

Would love to hear input on this.

Thanks,
Brandon

I believe all Adobe programs whether individually bought or the master collection comes with Adobe Bridge which is an excellent organizer. If not the complete bridge program they have miniBridge.

In either case I can complete my entire work flow from RAW to organized finished product with CS5 (I have the Master Collection). The only plug-in I have is Topaz noise reduction. I find this to be better than the Photoshop NR.

[bpv_UW]

Thanks for all the great info. A couple related questions:

For those of you who have used both PSE and CS, are there image editing capabilities that you routinely need for which CS is required? In other words, what essential image editing tasks can CS do that PSE can't? Also, how do the image editing capabilities of LR compare to PSE?

Most of my photography is outdoor/landscape stuff, so I try as much as I can to get things "right" in camera. Typically, my work flow includes adjustments to WB, exposure, blacks/recovery, contrast, vibrance, and sharpness in ACR, then layer work in PSE to simulate GND if necessary (with Gradient tool), maybe boost saturation/contrast a bit, and finally some Levels adjustments. Haven't gotten in to dodging/burning much yet, but plan to.

Someone mentioned advanced dodging/burning capabilities in CS. How much of this is possible with PSE? Can someone give an example of what could be done in CS that couldn't be done with PSE?

Thanks,
Brandon

[lowspark86]

It is sort of personal preference about what to use. Some people can manage all their images just using folders and are happy with it. Some use Bridge and Bridge has a lot of functionality but it isn't quite like Lightroom.

It is often said that Lightroom is designed with wedding photographers in mind. What that means is that it is Adobe's take on the most efficient way to import, sort, rate, edit, process, share/upload, prepare prints/contacts/proofs, make a web gallery and make a slideshow and to do it many times without becoming a monster.

I like it because it is easy for me to work on 20 images from different events and shoots without becoming mixed up. You can have editing ADD and jump all over the place without having to save anything.

The biggest thing to me that Lightroom can't do well is masking and blending of layers. You can't do some kinds of local edits the way you can with PS. Also swapping, photomerge, hdr pro and other stuff. LR3 can do a lot though.

From your description of what you typically do and want to do, LR3 can do everything on your list. It does GND and doesn't use adjustment layers but it does the same thing.

The newer versions of PSE have a lot more features than older ones, so take a look at PSE 8 and 9 to see exactly what you get compared to what you have.

[Michaelina2]

The combination of PSE6 and Lightroom 3.x should serve you well.

M

I shoot for personal enjoyment and web display. I use a LR3/PSE 8/PS 7 combo for pp. Ninety-nine percent of my K-7 (RAW/DNG) images are handled just fine with LR3. In fact, I find the K-7's output is so good that I can't remember the last time I needed to call up PSE 8, or PS 7.

You ask why... well, I've yet to think of a good reason use something else.

Cheers...