Color Profileing

dean66 · 11-17-2010, 04:13 PM

New to this forum and generally inexperienced with them in general; have a question, and I would appreciate being pointed in the direction, or better yet, provided an answer.

It is regarding color profiling, I just can't seem to get on paper what I'm seeing on the screen; in an effort to correct this and keep myself from wishing a plague upon both the my computer's and my printer's houses I bought a Color Munki Photo. I've profiled both the monitor and the printer/paper, but still things are not good. Specifically, I have the following equipment:

Computer: iMac, Intel Core 2 Duo, OS X 10.5.8
Software through which I'm trying to print: Photoshop Elements 6
Printer: Canon Pro 9000 MkII
ColorMunki Photo 1.1.1

I don't think that it is related, but I use a K10 set to DNG and adobeRBG.

Color Munki seems to generate the profiles and save them appropriately, but I think I'm having trouble turning ColorSyn off. When I choose Elements to manage the profile, the Options, ColorSync/Vendor, in the print driver section, ColorMatching, are greyed out with the default being ColorSyn; which my understanding leaves me to believe is wrong.

Can anyone who knows what they are doing PLEASE HELP ME. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE. PLEEEASE!

**Fries** · 11-17-2010, 04:38 PM

I am certainly no expert, but perhaps shooting in the SRGB color space helps. Not every printer is able to handle the wider color gamut of Adobe RGB.

**Miguel** · 11-17-2010, 05:16 PM

It would help if you were more specific about the issues you are having. How is the print not matching your monitor? Too dark? Too light? Color off how?

M

dean66 · 11-18-2010, 12:37 AM

The printer should accept adobe RGB. When I apply the printer/paper profile created by ColorMunki the photos come out dark and over-saturated. From what I've been able to read on- line it seems to be because the printer management, ie ColorSync, is not being shut off, but I can't figure out how to disable it bc the choices are greyed out. It's hard to believe that I'm alone with this problem.

thazooo · 11-18-2010, 06:13 AM

Welcome to the world of Color MIS Management

I've got mine close so I'll try to explain my set up.
I let my application control color so I've turned off Color Correction on my Pro 9000.
Go To
Pro 9000 Properties
On Color Intensity click 'SET'
On Matching Tab click 'Color Correction', set it to 'OFF'
This will allow your application to control the color.

Your Monitor Profile should be set to whatever you named the profile from Color Munki. Your Color Munki Profile should also load into the LUT at start up.This is a Windows term but all it does is load the profile into the Video card.

Your Printer Profile should be set to your Color Munki Profile you created for your paper. This profile is good for only the paper you created it for.

Using these settings I get my prints very close, the difference being a back lit screen vs. Photo Paper.

I read at the Qimage Forum about a color problem regarding OS 10. You might go there and see if it applies to your system. They have a work around.
I run RGB color space also and have no problems.

Here's an interesting link that helped me when I first got my Pro 9000:

Canon Pro 9000

Good luck.

thazooo · 11-18-2010, 06:45 AM

Forget the color problem with OS 10, appears to be epson only

**Miguel** · 11-18-2010, 08:28 AM

dean66,
Much of the time, too-dark prints are caused by a monitor being set too brightly. Those older iMacs were notorious for this problem. Some calibration software can let you target a luminosity (cd/m2) metric that it will enforce. I don't know about the ColorMunki, for the money it should.

What level are you showing now? A common preferred range these days is between 100-120 cd/m2.

You want to have Colorsync activated and greyed out in the print setting box. That is not your problem.

M

dean66 · 11-18-2010, 10:05 AM

The Zoo
How do I access the properties menu? When the Canon Pro9000II series dialog box opens there is no "properties " or "preferences" option that I can see.

Miguel
The lumenosity is set to 100 or 120, I don't remember which off hand. The Color Munki did adjust this. I really do think the issue may relate to what they describe as double profiling, I just can't seem to find a solution for my particular software/hardware combination. When I let the printer manage the colors, since calibrating the monitor the print rendition is fairly accurate, but the colors seem anemic. It's frustrating knowing I have a fairly capable printer and now a good profiling tool still having unacceptable results.

**Miguel** · 11-18-2010, 10:25 AM

Thanks for the background.
Two ideas:
1. Your ColorMunki printer paper profiles were done poorly and need a redo.
2. You are double profiling. In PSE you do have some checkbox saying let Photoshop manage colors.

Here is a page from the Adobe support forum that may help. I don't use higher end Canon printers so cannot directly advise.

M

thazooo · 11-18-2010, 11:14 AM

I get to it on my Windoz machine using Canon Program - My Printer - Printer Settings. This should translate to Mac . Properties is another way with windoz.

Have to agree with Miguel, 90% of CM problems are Double Profiling.

dean66 · 11-18-2010, 06:19 PM

Hi Miguel, I am choosing to let photoshop manage colors in the PSE pane, I think the double profiling problem comes in the canon printer dialogue opens; under color options there is a choice between Color Syn and Vendor; my understanding is that Vendor should be selected if one desires PSE to color manage. The problem is that its defaulted to ColorSync and greyed out so that it can't be changed.

**Miguel** · 11-18-2010, 06:39 PM

Please read the link I researched for you. Vendor is for printer-managed color management. Vendor refers to Canon. Or HP. Or Epson.
I'm looking at CS 3 and a Canon print dialog box right now. Perhaps there is enough similarity with your setup to be useful.
Choose the right printer, make sure the Photoshop Manages Colors choice from the Color Handling drop-down menu is activated, choose your custom Printer profile, then Perceptual rendering intent.

Hit Print and within the print dialog box there's really not much to do 'cept pick the right paper type and source tray. Then save that configuration as a Preset above. The Color Options drop down shouldn't offer you much to choose from with PSE being the boss.

I think this is what you have going on, correct? If you are still getting ratty results, then I'd re-profile your monitor. What kind of lighting existed when you calibrated the LCD? It should be on the dimmer side, not black, but moderate indirect lighting not aimed at the sensor.

Good luck.

M

**Miguel** · 11-18-2010, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by Miguel

Please read the link I researched for you.

Dean66, I realize that this information I rudely pointed you to was confusing and probably incorrect. I apologize. Color management isn't easy for anyone.

I now see that using custom profiles with your particular printer (actually it's the printer driver software) is very challenging. There seems to be great confusion about how to totally disable color management in the printer driver and whether that is even achievable. One bit of information that may help is to uncheck the Preview before printing box.

Have you been able to print well using the Canon standard profiles instead of the custom Munki ones?

M

thazooo · 11-19-2010, 05:59 AM

Sent you a Private Message with a link to a Post on DPR regarding printing with a set up like yours. Mac, Elements 6.........Shows a step by step.

Wheatfield · 11-19-2010, 06:41 AM

Buy a PC

11-17-2010, 04:13 PM	#1
dean66 Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 8	Color Profileing New to this forum and generally inexperienced with them in general; have a question, and I would appreciate being pointed in the direction, or better yet, provided an answer. It is regarding color profiling, I just can't seem to get on paper what I'm seeing on the screen; in an effort to correct this and keep myself from wishing a plague upon both the my computer's and my printer's houses I bought a Color Munki Photo. I've profiled both the monitor and the printer/paper, but still things are not good. Specifically, I have the following equipment: Computer: iMac, Intel Core 2 Duo, OS X 10.5.8 Software through which I'm trying to print: Photoshop Elements 6 Printer: Canon Pro 9000 MkII ColorMunki Photo 1.1.1 I don't think that it is related, but I use a K10 set to DNG and adobeRBG. Color Munki seems to generate the profiles and save them appropriately, but I think I'm having trouble turning ColorSyn off. When I choose Elements to manage the profile, the Options, ColorSync/Vendor, in the print driver section, ColorMatching, are greyed out with the default being ColorSyn; which my understanding leaves me to believe is wrong. Can anyone who knows what they are doing PLEASE HELP ME. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE. PLEEEASE!

11-18-2010, 06:13 AM	#5
thazooo Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Mississippi, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 854	Welcome to the world of Color MIS Management I've got mine close so I'll try to explain my set up. I let my application control color so I've turned off Color Correction on my Pro 9000. Go To Pro 9000 Properties On Color Intensity click 'SET' On Matching Tab click 'Color Correction', set it to 'OFF' This will allow your application to control the color. Your Monitor Profile should be set to whatever you named the profile from Color Munki. Your Color Munki Profile should also load into the LUT at start up.This is a Windows term but all it does is load the profile into the Video card. Your Printer Profile should be set to your Color Munki Profile you created for your paper. This profile is good for only the paper you created it for. Using these settings I get my prints very close, the difference being a back lit screen vs. Photo Paper. I read at the Qimage Forum about a color problem regarding OS 10. You might go there and see if it applies to your system. They have a work around. I run RGB color space also and have no problems. Here's an interesting link that helped me when I first got my Pro 9000: Canon Pro 9000 Good luck. Last edited by thazooo; 11-18-2010 at 06:14 AM. Reason: added a line of txt

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11-17-2010, 04:38 PM	#2
Fries Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Gauw Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,582	I am certainly no expert, but perhaps shooting in the SRGB color space helps. Not every printer is able to handle the wider color gamut of Adobe RGB.

11-17-2010, 05:16 PM	#3
Miguel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Near Seattle Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,743	It would help if you were more specific about the issues you are having. How is the print not matching your monitor? Too dark? Too light? Color off how? M

11-18-2010, 12:37 AM	#4
dean66 Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 8 Original Poster	The printer should accept adobe RGB. When I apply the printer/paper profile created by ColorMunki the photos come out dark and over-saturated. From what I've been able to read on- line it seems to be because the printer management, ie ColorSync, is not being shut off, but I can't figure out how to disable it bc the choices are greyed out. It's hard to believe that I'm alone with this problem.

11-18-2010, 06:45 AM	#6
thazooo Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Mississippi, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 854	Forget the color problem with OS 10, appears to be epson only

11-18-2010, 08:28 AM	#7
Miguel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Near Seattle Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,743	dean66, Much of the time, too-dark prints are caused by a monitor being set too brightly. Those older iMacs were notorious for this problem. Some calibration software can let you target a luminosity (cd/m2) metric that it will enforce. I don't know about the ColorMunki, for the money it should. What level are you showing now? A common preferred range these days is between 100-120 cd/m2. You want to have Colorsync activated and greyed out in the print setting box. That is not your problem. M

11-18-2010, 10:05 AM	#8
dean66 Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 8 Original Poster	The Zoo How do I access the properties menu? When the Canon Pro9000II series dialog box opens there is no "properties " or "preferences" option that I can see. Miguel The lumenosity is set to 100 or 120, I don't remember which off hand. The Color Munki did adjust this. I really do think the issue may relate to what they describe as double profiling, I just can't seem to find a solution for my particular software/hardware combination. When I let the printer manage the colors, since calibrating the monitor the print rendition is fairly accurate, but the colors seem anemic. It's frustrating knowing I have a fairly capable printer and now a good profiling tool still having unacceptable results.

11-18-2010, 10:25 AM	#9
Miguel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Near Seattle Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,743	Thanks for the background. Two ideas: 1. Your ColorMunki printer paper profiles were done poorly and need a redo. 2. You are double profiling. In PSE you do have some checkbox saying let Photoshop manage colors. Here is a page from the Adobe support forum that may help. I don't use higher end Canon printers so cannot directly advise. M

11-18-2010, 11:14 AM	#10
thazooo Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Mississippi, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 854	I get to it on my Windoz machine using Canon Program - My Printer - Printer Settings. This should translate to Mac . Properties is another way with windoz. Have to agree with Miguel, 90% of CM problems are Double Profiling.

11-18-2010, 06:19 PM	#11
dean66 Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 8 Original Poster	Hi Miguel, I am choosing to let photoshop manage colors in the PSE pane, I think the double profiling problem comes in the canon printer dialogue opens; under color options there is a choice between Color Syn and Vendor; my understanding is that Vendor should be selected if one desires PSE to color manage. The problem is that its defaulted to ColorSync and greyed out so that it can't be changed.

11-18-2010, 06:39 PM	#12
Miguel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Near Seattle Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,743	Please read the link I researched for you. Vendor is for printer-managed color management. Vendor refers to Canon. Or HP. Or Epson. I'm looking at CS 3 and a Canon print dialog box right now. Perhaps there is enough similarity with your setup to be useful. Choose the right printer, make sure the Photoshop Manages Colors choice from the Color Handling drop-down menu is activated, choose your custom Printer profile, then Perceptual rendering intent. Hit Print and within the print dialog box there's really not much to do 'cept pick the right paper type and source tray. Then save that configuration as a Preset above. The Color Options drop down shouldn't offer you much to choose from with PSE being the boss. I think this is what you have going on, correct? If you are still getting ratty results, then I'd re-profile your monitor. What kind of lighting existed when you calibrated the LCD? It should be on the dimmer side, not black, but moderate indirect lighting not aimed at the sensor. Good luck. M

11-19-2010, 06:41 AM	#15
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Buy a PC

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11-18-2010, 10:48 PM	#13
Miguel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Near Seattle Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,743	Originally posted by Miguel Please read the link I researched for you. Dean66, I realize that this information I rudely pointed you to was confusing and probably incorrect. I apologize. Color management isn't easy for anyone. I now see that using custom profiles with your particular printer (actually it's the printer driver software) is very challenging. There seems to be great confusion about how to totally disable color management in the printer driver and whether that is even achievable. One bit of information that may help is to uncheck the Preview before printing box. Have you been able to print well using the Canon standard profiles instead of the custom Munki ones? M

11-19-2010, 05:59 AM	#14
thazooo Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Mississippi, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 854	Sent you a Private Message with a link to a Post on DPR regarding printing with a set up like yours. Mac, Elements 6.........Shows a step by step.