Software price vent

eddie1960 · 12-09-2010, 09:09 AM

I've not used elements so can't speak to it. I really wouldn't define any full blown photo editor as user friendly though (Lightroom is pretty user friendly but not a full blown editor)
Once i got over the hump of learning the basics I found PSP pretty friendly but a fairer comparison is to photoshop proper not CS. CS is really a full blown professional graphics suite and likely has a large number of features most people will never use but they will pay for (it's also close to 30x the price of PSP x3 for a full version)
the real question is the latest photoshop worth 10 x the price of PSP, I didn't think so. Both have a learning curve, and if you used recent photoshop products the curve will be smaller for adobe vs PSP

lowspark86 · 12-09-2010, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by Naturenut

Ya know it's funny, I went to a pro photo site (elsewhere) and was reading various topics. I read time and time again that people who are aspiring to go 'pro' MUST have the full version of photoshop (this coming from respected, long-time professionals) and that anything less just will not do. In turn, on still other photo pro web sites, I read that there isn't much the full version of CS5 does that can't be done in Elements. Now, why do you suppose that is? I don't get it. Is it all just marketing to the masses re: the 'MUST' have mentality?

It makes sense for someone "going pro" to get and use full photoshop. If their intention is to be a pro and do advanced image manipulation then Elements isn't going to cut it. Could someone make it work? Maybe, but it isn't designed the same way as Photoshop and takes little hacks and tricks to get some simple things to work in an acceptable way. Example: Curves in Elements

Originally posted by Naturenut

Which would you say is most user-friendly (of CS, PSP or PE)?

I haven't used PSP (but I'm going to try it). PSE is much easier to use than Photoshop CSx for most people.

Originally posted by eddie1960

Once i got over the hump of learning the basics I found PSP pretty friendly but a fairer comparison is to photoshop proper not CS. CS is really a full blown professional graphics suite and likely has a large number of features most people will never use but they will pay for (it's also close to 30x the price of PSP x3 for a full version)

I think people refer to Photoshop as CS5 because Adobe's name for the product uses the "Photoshop CS5" format instead of "Photoshop 22" or whatever it would be.

I feel sorry for anyone that goes out and buys a CS5 suite if all they need is Photoshop CS5.

eddie1960 · 12-09-2010, 12:07 PM

it does happen, I would actually like the full suite for other applications but it's well beyond anyhtng i could justify to myself
I had the full CS3 and used illustrator a lot as well as photoshop and bridge. didn't really use some of the web tools but could see the value

lowspark86 · 12-09-2010, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by eddie1960

it does happen, I would actually like the full suite for other applications but it's well beyond anyhtng i could justify to myself
I had the full CS3 and used illustrator a lot as well as photoshop and bridge. didn't really use some of the web tools but could see the value

The suites are definitely good and worth it for people who will use them. Illustrator is way better than photoshop for a lot of graphic design work, and I assume the other tools are world class.

I meant to mention that Lightroom 3 has been on sale over the last couple weeks for $199-149 and even $125 at one point. Those prices are a LOT more reasonable than $299 for a hobbyist like me.

jimH · 12-09-2010, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by Naturenut

Hmmm...really? Since I have an older verson of Corel I could do the upgrade. $80 is a LOT more appealing/realistic [for me] than $600+! I wonder though, how much instruction/tutorial availability is there for Paintshop as opposed to Photoshop?

Geez, maybe I have 'drank the kool-aid' insofar as what software I 'must' have. Boy oh boy, now I'm really confused as to what I should do! lol

I recently purchased a well written instruction manual for PaintShop Photo Pro X3, entitled "PaintShop Photo Pro X3 for Photographers, by Focal Press, written by Ken McMohon and reviewed by Corel. It's a bit over 300 pages and laid out very well, covering all of the topics one would need. It sells at various on-line retailers for from the low $20s to the low $30s.

mel · 12-09-2010, 01:08 PM

I used Corel for a while but it was many many versions ago. I kind of really hated it. I prefer the Adobe products. But PSE 8 is a whole lot more powerful than I think most people give it credit for. Especially for the price. Costco had it for a while for $70 or $80 or something.

eddie1960 · 12-09-2010, 01:19 PM

i went for psp x3 over elements as i thought it was better featured at the same price. when software comes up with some other photographers i know (canikon guys) they always sneer when i tell them i use it kinda like they do when i mention pentax (gotta get that k5 and rub their noses in it i think)

woof · 12-09-2010, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by Naturenut

Hmmm...really? Since I have an older verson of Corel I could do the upgrade. $80 is a LOT more appealing/realistic [for me] than $600+! I wonder though, how much instruction/tutorial availability is there for Paintshop as opposed to Photoshop?

You'd be surprised how much translates. Oh and most plug-ins run under Corel. If you can find how things are being done in PS, the analog is usually pretty easy to suss out.

Don't take my word for it. Resources: Corel Paint Shop Pro Tutorials, Jasc, PSP, Graphics Programs, Web Graphics, Tutorials, Articles, Free Tubes, Brushes, Plug-ins, Plugins, Filters, PaintShop Pro - Web Site Resources, Website Tips, Websitetips.com

woof!

Tom S. · 12-09-2010, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by Naturenut

Hi Tom. Yes others have mentioned that to me but I can't seem to find even a CS3 on line that is reasonably priced. If you're willing to share I'd love to hear where you found your deal.

Wouldn't do you any good now. It was a vendor who was getting rid of the last couple he had, and it was three or four years ago.

Another option is if you have kids in college to look for an educational version. They are normally full versions at ridiculously lower prices.

mel · 12-09-2010, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by Tom S.

Another option is if you have kids in college to look for an educational version. They are normally full versions at ridiculously lower prices.

Actually if you have a kid in any kind of school you can get it. Academic Superstore (.com) just wants a student ID of some sort. The parent can buy in the child's name.

**jbinpg** · 12-09-2010, 03:23 PM

An update from the GIMP FAQ:

"When can we see 16-bit per channel support (or better)?

For some industries, especially photography, 24-bit colour depths (8 bits per channel) are a real barrier to entry. Once again, it's GEGL to the rescue. Work on integrating GEGL into GIMP began after 2.4 was released, and will span across several stable releases. This work will be completed in GIMP 3.0, which will have full support for high bit depths. If you need such support now and can't wait, cinepaint and krita support 16 bits per channel now.

It should be noted that for publishing to the web, the current GIMP release is good enough."

Gimp 3.0 will likely appear late in 2011.

GEGL - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jack

Camgen · 12-09-2010, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by mel

I used Corel for a while but it was many many versions ago. I kind of really hated it. I prefer the Adobe products. But PSE 8 is a whole lot more powerful than I think most people give it credit for. Especially for the price. Costco had it for a while for $70 or $80 or something.

Last time I checked PSE9 is $80.00 + $30.00 instant rebate at Costco that was about 2 weeks ago. My friend bought recently at Costco so he only paid $50.00 + tax. I downloaded mine and paid $99.00 and got my $20.00 mail in rebate.

Wheatfield · 12-09-2010, 05:43 PM

A friend of mine taught Photoshop several years ago. One of the things he found out as part of his contact with Adobe was the huge problem Adobe has with piracy. They estimate that (at the time) fully 90% or more of Photoshop installs in use are pirated, and they really didn't think that dropping the price was going to change that. If people can get it for free, they will, no matter what the price tag is.
Unfortunately, it seems to be human nature to steal if you can get away with it.
So, Adobe prices their product based on anticipated sales/cost of development.

tibbitts · 12-09-2010, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by Naturenut

Ya know it's funny, I went to a pro photo site (elsewhere) and was reading various topics. I read time and time again that people who are aspiring to go 'pro' MUST have the full version of photoshop (this coming from respected, long-time professionals) and that anything less just will not do. In turn, on still other photo pro web sites, I read that there isn't much the full version of CS5 does that can't be done in Elements. Now, why do you suppose that is? I don't get it. Is it all just marketing to the masses re: the 'MUST' have mentality?

Maybe 95% of the same group would say you MUST use a Canon or Nikon. There is usually some truths to these very general statements, in that they're probably describing what they believe to be the easiest, most popular, or most efficient path - which also happens to be the path that 95% of them took themselves.

Paul

deejjjaaaa · 12-10-2010, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by Naturenut

In turn, on still other photo pro web sites, I read that there isn't much the full version of CS5 does that can't be done in Elements.

I think PSE does not run a full version of ACR (something is disabled)... correct me if I am wrong

12-09-2010, 12:43 PM	#20
jimH Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: South Central Nebraska - USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,771	Originally posted by Naturenut Hmmm...really? Since I have an older verson of Corel I could do the upgrade. $80 is a LOT more appealing/realistic [for me] than $600+! I wonder though, how much instruction/tutorial availability is there for Paintshop as opposed to Photoshop? Geez, maybe I have 'drank the kool-aid' insofar as what software I 'must' have. Boy oh boy, now I'm really confused as to what I should do! lol I recently purchased a well written instruction manual for PaintShop Photo Pro X3, entitled "PaintShop Photo Pro X3 for Photographers, by Focal Press, written by Ken McMohon and reviewed by Corel. It's a bit over 300 pages and laid out very well, covering all of the topics one would need. It sells at various on-line retailers for from the low $20s to the low $30s. Last edited by jimH; 12-09-2010 at 12:44 PM. Reason: correction

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12-09-2010, 09:09 AM	#16
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	I've not used elements so can't speak to it. I really wouldn't define any full blown photo editor as user friendly though (Lightroom is pretty user friendly but not a full blown editor) Once i got over the hump of learning the basics I found PSP pretty friendly but a fairer comparison is to photoshop proper not CS. CS is really a full blown professional graphics suite and likely has a large number of features most people will never use but they will pay for (it's also close to 30x the price of PSP x3 for a full version) the real question is the latest photoshop worth 10 x the price of PSP, I didn't think so. Both have a learning curve, and if you used recent photoshop products the curve will be smaller for adobe vs PSP

12-09-2010, 12:01 PM	#17
lowspark86 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Southwest Photos: Albums Posts: 157	Originally posted by Naturenut Ya know it's funny, I went to a pro photo site (elsewhere) and was reading various topics. I read time and time again that people who are aspiring to go 'pro' MUST have the full version of photoshop (this coming from respected, long-time professionals) and that anything less just will not do. In turn, on still other photo pro web sites, I read that there isn't much the full version of CS5 does that can't be done in Elements. Now, why do you suppose that is? I don't get it. Is it all just marketing to the masses re: the 'MUST' have mentality? It makes sense for someone "going pro" to get and use full photoshop. If their intention is to be a pro and do advanced image manipulation then Elements isn't going to cut it. Could someone make it work? Maybe, but it isn't designed the same way as Photoshop and takes little hacks and tricks to get some simple things to work in an acceptable way. Example: Curves in Elements Originally posted by Naturenut Which would you say is most user-friendly (of CS, PSP or PE)? I haven't used PSP (but I'm going to try it). PSE is much easier to use than Photoshop CSx for most people. Originally posted by eddie1960 Once i got over the hump of learning the basics I found PSP pretty friendly but a fairer comparison is to photoshop proper not CS. CS is really a full blown professional graphics suite and likely has a large number of features most people will never use but they will pay for (it's also close to 30x the price of PSP x3 for a full version) I think people refer to Photoshop as CS5 because Adobe's name for the product uses the "Photoshop CS5" format instead of "Photoshop 22" or whatever it would be. I feel sorry for anyone that goes out and buys a CS5 suite if all they need is Photoshop CS5.

12-09-2010, 12:07 PM	#18
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	it does happen, I would actually like the full suite for other applications but it's well beyond anyhtng i could justify to myself I had the full CS3 and used illustrator a lot as well as photoshop and bridge. didn't really use some of the web tools but could see the value

12-09-2010, 12:17 PM	#19
lowspark86 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Southwest Photos: Albums Posts: 157	Originally posted by eddie1960 it does happen, I would actually like the full suite for other applications but it's well beyond anyhtng i could justify to myself I had the full CS3 and used illustrator a lot as well as photoshop and bridge. didn't really use some of the web tools but could see the value The suites are definitely good and worth it for people who will use them. Illustrator is way better than photoshop for a lot of graphic design work, and I assume the other tools are world class. I meant to mention that Lightroom 3 has been on sale over the last couple weeks for $199-149 and even $125 at one point. Those prices are a LOT more reasonable than $299 for a hobbyist like me.

12-09-2010, 01:08 PM	#21
mel Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Virginia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,531	I used Corel for a while but it was many many versions ago. I kind of really hated it. I prefer the Adobe products. But PSE 8 is a whole lot more powerful than I think most people give it credit for. Especially for the price. Costco had it for a while for $70 or $80 or something.

12-09-2010, 01:19 PM	#22
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	i went for psp x3 over elements as i thought it was better featured at the same price. when software comes up with some other photographers i know (canikon guys) they always sneer when i tell them i use it kinda like they do when i mention pentax (gotta get that k5 and rub their noses in it i think)

12-09-2010, 01:26 PM	#23
woof Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: In the present Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,870	Originally posted by Naturenut Hmmm...really? Since I have an older verson of Corel I could do the upgrade. $80 is a LOT more appealing/realistic [for me] than $600+! I wonder though, how much instruction/tutorial availability is there for Paintshop as opposed to Photoshop? You'd be surprised how much translates. Oh and most plug-ins run under Corel. If you can find how things are being done in PS, the analog is usually pretty easy to suss out. Don't take my word for it. Resources: Corel Paint Shop Pro Tutorials, Jasc, PSP, Graphics Programs, Web Graphics, Tutorials, Articles, Free Tubes, Brushes, Plug-ins, Plugins, Filters, PaintShop Pro - Web Site Resources, Website Tips, Websitetips.com woof!

12-09-2010, 01:33 PM	#24
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Originally posted by Naturenut Hi Tom. Yes others have mentioned that to me but I can't seem to find even a CS3 on line that is reasonably priced. If you're willing to share I'd love to hear where you found your deal. Wouldn't do you any good now. It was a vendor who was getting rid of the last couple he had, and it was three or four years ago. Another option is if you have kids in college to look for an educational version. They are normally full versions at ridiculously lower prices.

12-09-2010, 02:06 PM	#25
mel Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Virginia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,531	Originally posted by Tom S. Another option is if you have kids in college to look for an educational version. They are normally full versions at ridiculously lower prices. Actually if you have a kid in any kind of school you can get it. Academic Superstore (.com) just wants a student ID of some sort. The parent can buy in the child's name.

12-09-2010, 03:23 PM	#26
jbinpg Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prince George, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,546	An update from the GIMP FAQ: "When can we see 16-bit per channel support (or better)? For some industries, especially photography, 24-bit colour depths (8 bits per channel) are a real barrier to entry. Once again, it's GEGL to the rescue. Work on integrating GEGL into GIMP began after 2.4 was released, and will span across several stable releases. This work will be completed in GIMP 3.0, which will have full support for high bit depths. If you need such support now and can't wait, cinepaint and krita support 16 bits per channel now. It should be noted that for publishing to the web, the current GIMP release is good enough." Gimp 3.0 will likely appear late in 2011. GEGL - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jack

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12-09-2010, 03:41 PM	#27
Camgen Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Sunny SoCal Posts: 49	Originally posted by mel I used Corel for a while but it was many many versions ago. I kind of really hated it. I prefer the Adobe products. But PSE 8 is a whole lot more powerful than I think most people give it credit for. Especially for the price. Costco had it for a while for $70 or $80 or something. Last time I checked PSE9 is $80.00 + $30.00 instant rebate at Costco that was about 2 weeks ago. My friend bought recently at Costco so he only paid $50.00 + tax. I downloaded mine and paid $99.00 and got my $20.00 mail in rebate.

12-09-2010, 05:43 PM	#28
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	A friend of mine taught Photoshop several years ago. One of the things he found out as part of his contact with Adobe was the huge problem Adobe has with piracy. They estimate that (at the time) fully 90% or more of Photoshop installs in use are pirated, and they really didn't think that dropping the price was going to change that. If people can get it for free, they will, no matter what the price tag is. Unfortunately, it seems to be human nature to steal if you can get away with it. So, Adobe prices their product based on anticipated sales/cost of development.

12-09-2010, 07:05 PM	#29
tibbitts Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Oklahoma USA Posts: 2,193	Originally posted by Naturenut Ya know it's funny, I went to a pro photo site (elsewhere) and was reading various topics. I read time and time again that people who are aspiring to go 'pro' MUST have the full version of photoshop (this coming from respected, long-time professionals) and that anything less just will not do. In turn, on still other photo pro web sites, I read that there isn't much the full version of CS5 does that can't be done in Elements. Now, why do you suppose that is? I don't get it. Is it all just marketing to the masses re: the 'MUST' have mentality? Maybe 95% of the same group would say you MUST use a Canon or Nikon. There is usually some truths to these very general statements, in that they're probably describing what they believe to be the easiest, most popular, or most efficient path - which also happens to be the path that 95% of them took themselves. Paul

12-10-2010, 05:00 PM	#30
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by Naturenut In turn, on still other photo pro web sites, I read that there isn't much the full version of CS5 does that can't be done in Elements. I think PSE does not run a full version of ACR (something is disabled)... correct me if I am wrong