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04-09-2011, 01:39 AM   #1
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Print profile vs display profile

Sorry, I know this question has probably been asked a lot, but I have never properly understood the answers. Basically, I have a spyder2express which I use to calibrate my monitor. Now I have been looking at printing some photos, and the print shop I've been looking at has a printer profile, so I downloaded it. Now I see that my monitor calibrated photos look completely wrong when viewed using the printer profile (using Preview OSX), but then, I noticed that I can export my picture with the colour space of the printer profile. And when I view this in Preview now, it matches what I expect.

So my question is, when I export using the printer profile, does that mean that the actual print should look correct? Is that what the printer profile does, it matches the monitor profile to the printer (and that is the correct way to use it, export using the printer profile)?

dave

04-09-2011, 06:15 AM   #2
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A good read..........

Flickr: Discussing Printer Profiling When Importing in Adobe Lightroom
04-09-2011, 07:13 AM   #3
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Typically, printer profiles only matche specific printers to specific paper and ink. The monitor is an unknown quantity to the print process, just as the monitor profile is independent of the printer profile.

I don't believe the question is asked enough and too few people have the process down pat, including me. Its way more fun to play with the gear than making consumer level (mine, not yours specifically) monitors and printers play together. I spent weeks going back and forth with Canon tech support and exchanging test shots before getting a PRO9000 MII to match my calibrated monitors using only Canon print utility, paper, ink and test pics.
04-09-2011, 09:33 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by imtheguy Quote
Typically, printer profiles only matche specific printers to specific paper and ink. The monitor is an unknown quantity to the print process, just as the monitor profile is independent of the printer profile.

I don't believe the question is asked enough and too few people have the process down pat, including me. Its way more fun to play with the gear than making consumer level (mine, not yours specifically) monitors and printers play together. I spent weeks going back and forth with Canon tech support and exchanging test shots before getting a PRO9000 MII to match my calibrated monitors using only Canon print utility, paper, ink and test pics.
I concur with this.
There is NOTHING intuitive about getting your printer to print a reasonable facsimile (in terms of colors and brightness) of what you see on your monitor.

The first step would be to study the subject and the second step would be to calibrate your monitor properly.

I have done this and I am able to obtain reasonable prints on my Canon PRO9000 but am not expert enough to offer more specific advice than my comments above.

04-09-2011, 11:56 AM - 1 Like   #5
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Profiles are used by display devices (which includes printers) to tweak how they display/print a file so that a pure red, for example, appears pure red.

You use the screen's profile to display a photo on the screen, and when you print you tell it what profile to use to correct the same image file in a different way to print.

The print profile should only be used when you print - the preview of the print is on the screen so you need to see it using the screen profile.

As stated above, each printer profile is specific to a particular printer AND paper. You get some approximate ones with each printer, when you tell it what kind of paper you are using. For the better (or maybe more aspirational!) papers you can download more specific profiles from the paper maker's web site, but they are only available for a limited range of high-end printers. You can also buy devices that will let you make your own profiles, or there are places that will make them for you - you download a test file, print it following their directions, post it and they send back the profile for your printer, the ink that's in it and that paper. When I say 'the ink that's in it' I don't want to imply that if you change (say) the magenta cartidge for another of the same make the profile is dud, but if you change ink maker it is, and ditto if you are using poor-quality variable inks. Best to stick to OEM, Lyson or similar if you want consistent accurate prints.

You need to read up on how to use printer profiles with your software. It's important to get the ticks in the right boxes - it is possible to end up with double-correction which leads to inaccurate prints...
04-10-2011, 11:26 PM   #6
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Thanks guys for the replies, I had a look through the links and I think I understand it a bit better now. The place I want to print my photos (stretched canvas) at has printer profiles for their printers, so I'll definitely be exporting using those.
04-11-2011, 07:48 AM   #7
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Here's another cat to throw amongst the pigeons. When you convert an image to a new colour space (ie profile) you need to select a specific rendering intent. This determines how out-of-gamut colours (usually the most highly saturated) will be mapped to the new profile. The right rendering intent can make a big difference to the outcome, and it varies from image to image - I don't know Preview's capabilities, but most people use the Proof Colors function in Photoshop to test different intents before converting.

The two most common rendering intents for photos are Perceptual and Relative Colorimetric. Perceptual is arguably better for images with highly saturated colours as it remaps them while maintaining a semblance of their former relationship. RC simply pulls them all back to the colour-space boundary, so you may lose nuance and subtle distinctions. It's great for many ordinary or limited-palette images, though.
04-14-2011, 10:06 AM   #8
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could you please tell us which program you are using with the color profiles? If it is photoshop then I might be able to help.

cheers

randy

04-19-2011, 03:53 PM   #9
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Display and printer profiles are both destination profiles.

sRGB or aRGB are your source profile. These are the settings that you can choose in your camera. When you open your pix in your PC, depending on how good is your monitor and how well it was calibrated, your monitor will be able to display all the color information base on the embedded source profile. This means your pix is being outputted into your monitor profile (destination).

You will then wanted to see in your monitor what your pix will look like using certain printer ICC profile. Again depending on how good your monitor and how well it was calibrated, your monitor shall be able to display correct color information of your other destination profile which is the printer because monitor color gamut is almost equal to your source color gamut but printer has small color gamut. The monitor will simulate your other destination profile.

Using application features like Soft proof in Adobe PS, you will be able to preview it. You now have an opportunity to correct the color base on the ICC profile of the printer.

Unless required, never export/convert your image to your destination printer (profile). Instead save your image with your working RGB profile embedded like sRGB, aRGB, ECI RGB, Bruce RGB, etc.
04-19-2011, 04:33 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by lyzan Quote
Display and printer profiles are both destination profiles.

sRGB or aRGB are your source profile. These are the settings that you can choose in your camera. When you open your pix in your PC, depending on how good is your monitor and how well it was calibrated, your monitor will be able to display all the color information base on the embedded source profile. This means your pix is being outputted into your monitor profile (destination).

You will then wanted to see in your monitor what your pix will look like using certain printer ICC profile. Again depending on how good your monitor and how well it was calibrated, your monitor shall be able to display correct color information of your other destination profile which is the printer because monitor color gamut is almost equal to your source color gamut but printer has small color gamut. The monitor will simulate your other destination profile.

Using application features like Soft proof in Adobe PS, you will be able to preview it. You now have an opportunity to correct the color base on the ICC profile of the printer.

Unless required, never export/convert your image to your destination printer (profile). Instead save your image with your working RGB profile embedded like sRGB, aRGB, ECI RGB, Bruce RGB, etc.
great advise!
when you go to print in photoshop, under the options select "let photoshop manage your colors"
set as default.
now when your printer preferences come up, find the color management section and select" don't manage the color profile" or something worded closely
set as default
here is a good read about profiles,
Dry Creek Photo

good luck
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