Thought on the Topaz B&W Plugin

kh1234567890 · 09-23-2011, 03:41 PM

I've had a very quick play comparing DXO Filmpack 3 to Truegrain and I am not impressed.

Both conversions were done using the default settings in each program.
I chose the Ilford Delta 3200 simulation because both packages have it and this film stock used to have a very characteristic grain.

Compared to Truegrain the DXO conversions look only as if a bit of noise had been added, not at all like the real thing.
The DXO contrast and spectral response are also all wrong.

Last edited by kh1234567890; 09-23-2011 at 03:56 PM.

AshleyofTopazLabs · 09-30-2011, 05:52 AM - **3 Likes**

Hi Everyone,

This is Ashley Robinson, product manager for Topaz Labs. I hope that it's OK that I join in on this convo and hopefully answer a few of your questions.

At this time Fusion Express unfortunately is not able to retain metadata when used in Lightroom. This may be caused by the External Editor setup. We do realize that this is behavior is not ideal and our developers are looking into possible solutions for this that we hope to include in a future Fusion Express update. Right now the temporary solution would be to use Topaz via Photoshop if you are able to.

Aperture users should not have this issue as it has been resolved. If you are an Aperture user that is experiencing this issue, then please visit our downloads page to download the latest version of Fusion Express. Aperture users using the latest version of Fusion Express as a plug-in in Aperture should not experience this issue.

In regards to issues with the preview and processed image. Viewing your image at 100% in Topaz and also once you are back in Photoshop should resolve this issue. Viewing at 100% will give you the most accurate representation of what your final processed image will look like.

For the noise issue, if you notice the noise when editing in Topaz there are a couple of adjustments that I can suggest that may help. First, if you are working with Adaptive Exposure then there is an option called "Process Details Independent" - enabling this feature will help eliminate noise and artifacts. IAnother thing that you can do is lower the detail boost slider which targets the smallest image details. f you'd like to learn more about it then please check out my blog post here: B&W Effects Side Effects: How to avoid unwanted noise & artifacts | Topaz Labs Blog

If you have any other questions then feel free to email me at help (at) topazlabs.com. We also welcome any suggestions or feature requests that you may have as well.

Macario · 09-30-2011, 02:31 PM

I bought the B&W effects after trying it out for a few days, and I do like it alot. The only thing that I personally mis is what they do have in silvereffecs. They do not just mimick the grain of film, but also the tonal scale of that type of film. That would be a super addition to the program

Anvh · 10-03-2011, 02:25 PM

@ kh1234567890

Nice test, Topaz sadly doesnt'really have an option to mimic the film i beleive but Nik-software does.
Would you like to try that one as well, if not i've Nik myself so could give it a go if i could use your photo for that.

Just installed the Topaz B&W effect so i'm curious how it will work, i now mainly use Silvereffects.

kh1234567890 · 10-03-2011, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by Anvh

@ kh1234567890

Nice test, Topaz sadly doesnt'really have an option to mimic the film i beleive but Nik-software does.
Would you like to try that one as well, if not i've Nik myself so could give it a go if i could use your photo for that.

Just installed the Topaz B&W effect so i'm curious how it will work, i now mainly use Silvereffects.

The full size colour JPEG is accessible on Flickr in the normal way or as http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6165/6176464486_2d528b0b8a_o.jpg

Feel free to play - as long as you post your result here

twitch · 10-03-2011, 04:29 PM

The killer feature Silver Efex has that Topaz doesn't is control points. I use control points extensively in my conversions so I'm very sceptical that Topaz B&W could even touch what can be done in Silver Efex due to this factor alone.

Another issue I have with Topaz Adjust anyway, is that the usability of their sliders stink. As I drag a slider the application wants to reprocess the whole image and forces me to wait to see the results. This makes it very frustrating to adjust any settings away from a defined preset. The Nik pluggins OTOH are super slick and I can drag and change sliders smoothly without bogging down the app.

philbaum · 10-03-2011, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by twitch

The killer feature Silver Efex has that Topaz doesn't is control points. I use control points extensively in my conversions so I'm very sceptical that Topaz B&W could even touch what can be done in Silver Efex due to this factor alone.

Another issue I have with Topaz Adjust anyway, is that the usability of their sliders stink. As I drag a slider the application wants to reprocess the whole image and forces me to wait to see the results. This makes it very frustrating to adjust any settings away from a defined preset. The Nik pluggins OTOH are super slick and I can drag and change sliders smoothly without bogging down the app.

I come from a LR background and was anticipating being impressed when i got Silver Efex on a trial basis. I knew a club member who had high praise for it. They did seem to have a nice set of presets, but the localized points seemed much more cumbersome than LR's localized brushes.

I already own Topaz's Denoise, used it a lot, but had the same annoyance over the length of time doing the previews after slider adjustments that Twitch experienced. I once downloaded Topaz Detail and wasn't impressed with that. So i was prepared to be unimpressed when i downloaded Topaz BW Effects. But i think Topaz knocked it out of the park when they did BW Effects. Two things which opened my eyes, was that they have a micro-contrast feature called "adaptive exposure" which works effectively with another slider called "Regions". Regions slider tells the adaptive exposure how many sectors to divide the scene into. You can go from 1 region to double digits. And it makes quite a difference in the look of the scene.

Second thing that was a nice surprise was "vignetting". LR's vignetting is locked into the center of the picture. But in Topaz, you can put the center of the effect anywhere in the picture. Which allows one to create interesting lighting effects by putting what appears to be a major source of light anywhere you want it. Cool.

I like any new software to show me something that it can do better than any other piece of software i may have, and Topaz did that. Sliders still have some delay, but its been improved over my experience with Topaz Denoise.

I don't have enough experience with NEK Silver Effects to say that its worse than Topaz, only that Topaz had some pleasant surprises to it and i didn't get that feeling with Silver Effects. Also Topaz has a localized brush that was pretty nice in what it did.

twitch · 10-03-2011, 05:58 PM

I've guess I've been put off Topaz by their Adjust pluggin which I found just horrible compared to Nik's Color Efex.

Bart · 10-04-2011, 09:48 AM

There is a small price difference between the Topaz and the Nik product...

GDRoth · 10-04-2011, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by AshleyofTopazLabs

Hi Everyone,

This is Ashley Robinson, product manager for Topaz Labs. I hope that it's OK that I join in on this convo and hopefully answer a few of your questions.

At this time Fusion Express unfortunately is not able to retain metadata when used in Lightroom. This may be caused by the External Editor setup. We do realize that this is behavior is not ideal and our developers are looking into possible solutions for this that we hope to include in a future Fusion Express update. Right now the temporary solution would be to use Topaz via Photoshop if you are able to.

Aperture users should not have this issue as it has been resolved. If you are an Aperture user that is experiencing this issue, then please visit our downloads page to download the latest version of Fusion Express. Aperture users using the latest version of Fusion Express as a plug-in in Aperture should not experience this issue.

In regards to issues with the preview and processed image. Viewing your image at 100% in Topaz and also once you are back in Photoshop should resolve this issue. Viewing at 100% will give you the most accurate representation of what your final processed image will look like.

For the noise issue, if you notice the noise when editing in Topaz there are a couple of adjustments that I can suggest that may help. First, if you are working with Adaptive Exposure then there is an option called "Process Details Independent" - enabling this feature will help eliminate noise and artifacts. IAnother thing that you can do is lower the detail boost slider which targets the smallest image details. f you'd like to learn more about it then please check out my blog post here: B&W Effects Side Effects: How to avoid unwanted noise & artifacts | Topaz Labs Blog

If you have any other questions then feel free to email me at help (at) topazlabs.com. We also welcome any suggestions or feature requests that you may have as well.

Welcome Ashley!
It's got to be a good thing to have someone from Topaz adding to the conversation here.
I hope she stays involved....

I purchased B&W Effects a few weeks ago and even attended one of their webinars......very good content and a super presentation.

Now I just need to find time to drill-down and start using B&W to its full potential.
Dave

twitch · 10-04-2011, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Bart

There is a small price difference between the Topaz and the Nik product...

The way to buy Nik pluggins is in a bundle, that way they are affordable. The standalone price for Silver Efex is very high I agree.

09-23-2011, 03:41 PM	#31
kh1234567890 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Manchester, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,653	Truegrain vs DXO Filmpack 3 I've had a very quick play comparing DXO Filmpack 3 to Truegrain and I am not impressed. Both conversions were done using the default settings in each program. I chose the Ilford Delta 3200 simulation because both packages have it and this film stock used to have a very characteristic grain. Compared to Truegrain the DXO conversions look only as if a bit of noise had been added, not at all like the real thing. The DXO contrast and spectral response are also all wrong. Last edited by kh1234567890; 09-23-2011 at 03:56 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Anyone uses gimp and ufraw plugin for raw processing?	benhai	Digital Processing, Software, and Printing	10	10-11-2012 02:14 AM
Win a Modular Case, Topaz Plugin, or CPL Filter by posting a festive photo	Adam	Travel, Events, and Groups	79	09-30-2011 07:15 PM
Topaz Denoise & K5 Preset	daacon	Digital Processing, Software, and Printing	10	08-08-2011 07:07 AM
Expoblend: new Kipi-plugin en standalone	newmikey	Digital Processing, Software, and Printing	3	05-20-2010 09:57 PM
LR3 beta and Mogrify Plugin...?	Rense	Digital Processing, Software, and Printing	3	02-23-2010 10:10 PM

09-30-2011, 05:52 AM - 3 Likes	#32
AshleyofTopazLabs New Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1	Hi Everyone, This is Ashley Robinson, product manager for Topaz Labs. I hope that it's OK that I join in on this convo and hopefully answer a few of your questions. At this time Fusion Express unfortunately is not able to retain metadata when used in Lightroom. This may be caused by the External Editor setup. We do realize that this is behavior is not ideal and our developers are looking into possible solutions for this that we hope to include in a future Fusion Express update. Right now the temporary solution would be to use Topaz via Photoshop if you are able to. Aperture users should not have this issue as it has been resolved. If you are an Aperture user that is experiencing this issue, then please visit our downloads page to download the latest version of Fusion Express. Aperture users using the latest version of Fusion Express as a plug-in in Aperture should not experience this issue. In regards to issues with the preview and processed image. Viewing your image at 100% in Topaz and also once you are back in Photoshop should resolve this issue. Viewing at 100% will give you the most accurate representation of what your final processed image will look like. For the noise issue, if you notice the noise when editing in Topaz there are a couple of adjustments that I can suggest that may help. First, if you are working with Adaptive Exposure then there is an option called "Process Details Independent" - enabling this feature will help eliminate noise and artifacts. IAnother thing that you can do is lower the detail boost slider which targets the smallest image details. f you'd like to learn more about it then please check out my blog post here: B&W Effects Side Effects: How to avoid unwanted noise & artifacts \| Topaz Labs Blog If you have any other questions then feel free to email me at help (at) topazlabs.com. We also welcome any suggestions or feature requests that you may have as well.

09-30-2011, 02:31 PM	#33
Macario Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Hoek van Holland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,393	I bought the B&W effects after trying it out for a few days, and I do like it alot. The only thing that I personally mis is what they do have in silvereffecs. They do not just mimick the grain of film, but also the tonal scale of that type of film. That would be a super addition to the program

10-03-2011, 02:25 PM	#34
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	@ kh1234567890 Nice test, Topaz sadly doesnt'really have an option to mimic the film i beleive but Nik-software does. Would you like to try that one as well, if not i've Nik myself so could give it a go if i could use your photo for that. Just installed the Topaz B&W effect so i'm curious how it will work, i now mainly use Silvereffects.

10-03-2011, 03:14 PM	#35
kh1234567890 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Manchester, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,653	Originally posted by Anvh @ kh1234567890 Nice test, Topaz sadly doesnt'really have an option to mimic the film i beleive but Nik-software does. Would you like to try that one as well, if not i've Nik myself so could give it a go if i could use your photo for that. Just installed the Topaz B&W effect so i'm curious how it will work, i now mainly use Silvereffects. The full size colour JPEG is accessible on Flickr in the normal way or as http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6165/6176464486_2d528b0b8a_o.jpg Feel free to play - as long as you post your result here

10-03-2011, 04:29 PM	#36
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	The killer feature Silver Efex has that Topaz doesn't is control points. I use control points extensively in my conversions so I'm very sceptical that Topaz B&W could even touch what can be done in Silver Efex due to this factor alone. Another issue I have with Topaz Adjust anyway, is that the usability of their sliders stink. As I drag a slider the application wants to reprocess the whole image and forces me to wait to see the results. This makes it very frustrating to adjust any settings away from a defined preset. The Nik pluggins OTOH are super slick and I can drag and change sliders smoothly without bogging down the app.

10-03-2011, 05:25 PM	#37
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by twitch The killer feature Silver Efex has that Topaz doesn't is control points. I use control points extensively in my conversions so I'm very sceptical that Topaz B&W could even touch what can be done in Silver Efex due to this factor alone. Another issue I have with Topaz Adjust anyway, is that the usability of their sliders stink. As I drag a slider the application wants to reprocess the whole image and forces me to wait to see the results. This makes it very frustrating to adjust any settings away from a defined preset. The Nik pluggins OTOH are super slick and I can drag and change sliders smoothly without bogging down the app. I come from a LR background and was anticipating being impressed when i got Silver Efex on a trial basis. I knew a club member who had high praise for it. They did seem to have a nice set of presets, but the localized points seemed much more cumbersome than LR's localized brushes. I already own Topaz's Denoise, used it a lot, but had the same annoyance over the length of time doing the previews after slider adjustments that Twitch experienced. I once downloaded Topaz Detail and wasn't impressed with that. So i was prepared to be unimpressed when i downloaded Topaz BW Effects. But i think Topaz knocked it out of the park when they did BW Effects. Two things which opened my eyes, was that they have a micro-contrast feature called "adaptive exposure" which works effectively with another slider called "Regions". Regions slider tells the adaptive exposure how many sectors to divide the scene into. You can go from 1 region to double digits. And it makes quite a difference in the look of the scene. Second thing that was a nice surprise was "vignetting". LR's vignetting is locked into the center of the picture. But in Topaz, you can put the center of the effect anywhere in the picture. Which allows one to create interesting lighting effects by putting what appears to be a major source of light anywhere you want it. Cool. I like any new software to show me something that it can do better than any other piece of software i may have, and Topaz did that. Sliders still have some delay, but its been improved over my experience with Topaz Denoise. I don't have enough experience with NEK Silver Effects to say that its worse than Topaz, only that Topaz had some pleasant surprises to it and i didn't get that feeling with Silver Effects. Also Topaz has a localized brush that was pretty nice in what it did.

10-03-2011, 05:58 PM	#38
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	I've guess I've been put off Topaz by their Adjust pluggin which I found just horrible compared to Nik's Color Efex.

10-04-2011, 09:48 AM	#39
Bart Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: WW community of Pentax users Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,646	There is a small price difference between the Topaz and the Nik product...

10-04-2011, 10:13 AM	#40
GDRoth Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: S.E. Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 830	Originally posted by AshleyofTopazLabs Hi Everyone, This is Ashley Robinson, product manager for Topaz Labs. I hope that it's OK that I join in on this convo and hopefully answer a few of your questions. At this time Fusion Express unfortunately is not able to retain metadata when used in Lightroom. This may be caused by the External Editor setup. We do realize that this is behavior is not ideal and our developers are looking into possible solutions for this that we hope to include in a future Fusion Express update. Right now the temporary solution would be to use Topaz via Photoshop if you are able to. Aperture users should not have this issue as it has been resolved. If you are an Aperture user that is experiencing this issue, then please visit our downloads page to download the latest version of Fusion Express. Aperture users using the latest version of Fusion Express as a plug-in in Aperture should not experience this issue. In regards to issues with the preview and processed image. Viewing your image at 100% in Topaz and also once you are back in Photoshop should resolve this issue. Viewing at 100% will give you the most accurate representation of what your final processed image will look like. For the noise issue, if you notice the noise when editing in Topaz there are a couple of adjustments that I can suggest that may help. First, if you are working with Adaptive Exposure then there is an option called "Process Details Independent" - enabling this feature will help eliminate noise and artifacts. IAnother thing that you can do is lower the detail boost slider which targets the smallest image details. f you'd like to learn more about it then please check out my blog post here: B&W Effects Side Effects: How to avoid unwanted noise & artifacts \| Topaz Labs Blog If you have any other questions then feel free to email me at help (at) topazlabs.com. We also welcome any suggestions or feature requests that you may have as well. Welcome Ashley! It's got to be a good thing to have someone from Topaz adding to the conversation here. I hope she stays involved.... I purchased B&W Effects a few weeks ago and even attended one of their webinars......very good content and a super presentation. Now I just need to find time to drill-down and start using B&W to its full potential. Dave

10-04-2011, 02:32 PM	#41
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	Originally posted by Bart There is a small price difference between the Topaz and the Nik product... The way to buy Nik pluggins is in a bundle, that way they are affordable. The standalone price for Silver Efex is very high I agree.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
	Search this Thread: Advanced Search