[rtpguy]

Hi all,

I'm hoping this is just something i'm overlooking. I'm trying desperately to get my wife off of Picassa (the last file I went to look at was amusingly named IMGNNNN.DNG.JPG - yeah, no idea what it may be doing there ), and onto using LR full-time, but she brought up what is one of my biggest annoyances to date with LR.

If you are using clone/heal, let's say for removing shadows underneath eyes, or filling in an errant spot of skin that hair isn't covering, in Picassa, you can select the area, alter the brush/circle size, grab from an area to blend into the selected area, and apply. So far, it's functionally identical between LR and Picassa.

However, some areas require more than one pass in the same area - I guess you could bring it into Photoshop to use a more brush/stroke oriented fix, but Picassa let's you re-select a previously cloned/healed area, to do an additional pass over it, meaning adding a new 'layer' of clone/heal on top of the prior one. LR does not seem to allow this, and will only 'grab' the prior clone/healed spot instead, and while it will allow you then to adjust the size and opacity of that cloned/healed spot, there seems to be no way to add a second layer on top of the first, except for overlapping somewhat with an additional clone/heal.

As a result, I've got to say, retouches of this nature tend to come out a LOT better with Picassa than with LR.

Any suggestions or help on this one? Is there a key combo or option I could enable to work around this?

[Adam]

If you want the fancy layering stuff, I think photoshop is what you'll need. I believe that's exactly why adobe has two different products- one is designed for improving workflow and everyday fixes, while the other let's you do just about anything but with more steps involved.

[rtpguy]

Yeah, it's not so much about needing/wanting full layers as simply the ability to do 'additive'/overlapping clones/heals. Of course, this could be done with 'full layers' in PS, but this is a fairly limited/specific case, and am still hoping for a workaround/usable solution with LR. I *do* own CS5.5 via work discount, but honestly, 'eye and minor blemish touchup' that can be done better in Picassa than LR doesn't bode very well for LR IMO, which is otherwise a great product.

I'm going to hope for an alternative answer.

I doubt I'll convince my wife to use full PS to do < 2 minute (in Picassa) type touchups, and really would like to remain on Adobe (I occasionally use some of the CS5.5 suite for work, non photo related)...with the only other option being perhaps Aperture.. if no one has a solution in LR to the above, can Aperture users weigh in here, preferably those who have also used LR, regarding touchups, workflow differences, and can you configure Aperture to still launch PS, make more major edits, then bring it back into Aperture? (There are some cases 'full PS' is desirable, I just don't want to have to do it for minor touchups like the above case..)

[rtpguy]

Looks like I'm not the only one griping about this:
Lightroom and Camera Raw: More Photoshop like clone/healing/content aware brushes in Lightroom!

[dosdan]

However, some areas require more than one pass in the same area - I guess you could bring it into Photoshop to use a more brush/stroke oriented fix, but Picassa let's you re-select a previously cloned/healed area, to do an additional pass over it, meaning adding a new 'layer' of clone/heal on top of the prior one. LR does not seem to allow this, and will only 'grab' the prior clone/healed spot instead, and while it will allow you then to adjust the size and opacity of that cloned/healed spot, there seems to be no way to add a second layer on top of the first, except for overlapping somewhat with an additional clone/heal.

That's a significant weakness in LR. The GIMP will do this (no need to add a layer) and it's free.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-processing-articles/81645-gimp-photo...-cropping.html

From that article:

If the blemish is not hidden completely, click on it a few more times. If necessary, you can also take another sample (Ctrl-click) from the other side (left) of the blemish and dump it on the spot as well.

Dan

[mysticcowboy]

Yep, you've found one of Lightroom's biggest shortcomings. Its healing brush doesn't do multiple passes very well. The best you can do is size the brush very carefully, then use multiple brush spots in a line. It's not elegant.

As you say, there's Photoshop. You won't need layers to use its healing brush, though it's usually best to work on a new layer, then flatten the image when you're completely satisfied. However, if your wife likes Picasa, what's the problem? I can't get my wife off iPhoto. We work best with the tools we like, regardless of their shortcomings.

[rtpguy]

Dan - we have CS5.5 currently, and while I think The GIMP is a great piece of open source software, it's just of little benefit in this case vs LR + Photoshop. I was hoping I was missing something available or a different method for touchups in LR, instead of launching another program in addition to LR.

@mystic - mostly just trying to settle on tools used, as we both sometimes do some work on the same images, can each show each other different tips and such within the same program, etc...plus Picassa seems to convert images to JPG vs the virtual copies/metadata changes only via LR. We're both pretty happy with LR, except with this issue. Picassa IMO is a nice (free) step up from iPhoto and the like, and is pretty good for quick image wide adjustments, I used it for a few years before going DSLR, but LR simply does more, with the exception of this one annoyance...so was hoping I was just missing a better way to do it.

[mysticcowboy]

No, rtpguy, you're not missing anything. Adobe seems to want to leave just enough out of Lightroom that we need some version of Photoshop.

[reeftool]

I do the same as your wife and on occasion will use the healing tool in Picasa when I need to. I will sometimes use Elements 9 also for some extra PP that Lightroom won't do. Photoshop and Lightroom don't always do everything we want very easily and that's why there is a very thriving cottage industry making plugins for all the stuff Adobe left out. It does annoy you when a piece of software you spent hundreds for won't do a simple correction that a free program does well.

[George Lama]

I'd have to disagree somewhat with the statements about Adobe wanting to keep features out of Lightroom purposely so as to require us to purchase PS. That would be like claiming Microsoft is keeping features away from Excel so we can't do PowerPoint presentations with it.

By the same token, you could say that Photoshop should have all LR features - after all, you're paying very good money for it, about US$900 if you buy retail, so why not include it all?

That said - I do 99% of my post in LR and do agree that there are some PS-type tools that would be of benefit - like magic eraser aka content aware editing. But primarily, for my workflow, I want LR and PS to remain kings or queens of their own editing domain :-)

[Class A]

There is an easy solution for your problem.

First place the a clone/healing spot at a different place nearby. Once it is placed, you can then you can move it to where you want it to be.

Moving the new spot so that it overlaps with the old one is possible and I do that often. You just cannot create it there right away because the GUI assumes you want to manipulate an existing spot.

If you want better, brush-like, clone/healing support, you can vote for it at Adobe's feedback site.

P.S.: Photoshop is not the answer. Photoshop is the question and the answer is "no". The integration between Lightroom and Photoshop is only superficial but leaves one with multiple files and an awkward workflow.

P.P.S.: Corel's AfterShot Pro (formerly known as Bibble 5) supports non-destructive layering as well and can apply all adjustments locally, not just a subset like Lightroom. Still needs work, AFAIC, but I hope it will become better in order to create more competition for Lightroom.

[rtpguy]

There is an easy solution for your problem.

First place the a clone/healing spot at a different place nearby. Once it is placed, you can then you can move it to where you want it to be.

Moving the new spot so that it overlaps with the old one is possible and I do that often. You just cannot create it there right away because the GUI assumes you want to manipulate an existing spot.

If you want better, brush-like, clone/healing support, you can vote for it at Adobe's feedback site.

P.S.: Photoshop is not the answer. Photoshop is the question and the answer is "no". The integration between Lightroom and Photoshop is only superficial but leaves one with multiple files and an awkward workflow.

P.P.S.: Corel's AfterShot Pro (formerly known as Bibble 5) supports non-destructive layering as well and can apply all adjustments locally, not just a subset like Lightroom. Still needs work, AFAIC, but I hope it will become better in order to create more competition for Lightroom.

Hi,

I do use move to make different spot heals 'more overlapping,' but it's just not as easy as Picassa nor does it seem to work as well. It's fine for blemish removal/single spots, but beyond that it's just sort of a usability fail. Thanks for the link into Adobe, registered solely to vote for that one.

Don't anyone think for a minute that some mis/missing features aren't by design; I would wager there's been quite a bit of internal discussion at Adobe; you don't want to kill the goose that is laying the golden eggs - I wouldn't be surprised if internally, they consider LRs primary target as new Adobe customers, and also as a 'gateway' product, leading into more Adobe purchases. That can be a tough line to walk - they want to increase revenue and the customer base, and not cannibalize sales from PS, but also making LR a decent product, and I have little doubt there are some 'lines in the sand' that we won't see LR doing.

Of course, for many of us that simply wouldn't spend the $ on Photoshop, we're hoping that that line could be pushed a bit further into more selection editing and clone/heal/brush improvements. I do happen to own PS, but only as a significant discount via work, or probably would not. LR is priced OK for what it does, and covers 95%+ of my current and immediately foreseeable needs, just that last 5% can sure be annoying.

[Alfisti]

It absolutely INFURIATES me. Terrible design, cannot get my head around it at all, horrible, horrible to use cloning tool. Rubbish. Start again.