Canon PIXMA Pro9000 Mark II?

**PPPPPP42** · 03-09-2012, 10:47 PM

This is my intention:
Canon PIXMA Pro9000 Mark II Inkjet Printer 3295B002 B&H Photo

Searching on here only really revealed a link to this:
Imaging Resource Printer Review: Canon PIXMA Pro9000 Mark II Printer
Which seems to be a 1st hand, non magazine sponsor biased review of it saying its great while mentioning a few of the more fiddly details about it.

Anyone know how many 13x19's it will spit out before at least one cartridge needs replacement or ink usage in general, even paper for this thing is a fortune but you don't go cheap when buying a printer like this or it defeats the purpose.

I realistically expect to print at least 10 pictures in 13x19 (or at least a size more than 8.5x11) for personal use a month. At that rate in a year I would have more than payed for the printer I expect (already spent like $60 this month on prints) and with the rebate that price is amazing since I'm told it comes with sample paper and a complete set of full (not half filled starter) ink cartridges.

Input from people requested.

imtheguy · 03-10-2012, 12:01 AM

I have been doing all my own prints, mostly 19x13 for almost 2 years on the 9000MkII. Afraid I cannot provide any complaints, especially for the price. Having this control over the print process after calibrating both monitors is worth a whole lot. I have yet to do a reprint because the first was too dark (common when you send it out) or color shifted. I took months and help from Canon tech support for me to settle on print software (the Canon program provided) and paper. I never could get perfect match between screen and print with any Adobe or other specialty print package. Using the Canon utility limits me to Canon papers because you cant add other vendors paper profiles to it. But small price to have prints that are better than any I ever got locally.

But on to your main question about ink; yes the cartridges are small and if you buy the box of 8 from B&H its a decent discount. But depending on what you shoot (birds with lots of blue sky? portraits with black backgrounds?) you will use some colors 3-4 times before replacing others. I find the Magenta, Yellow and Cyan go fast. Red and Green seem to never go empty. If you made me guess, I would venture that I could get 8-12 full bleed 19x13 shots of birds with mostly blue sky before replacing at the Cyan. Maybe 10-14 for sunrise/sunsets and the yellow+magenta. Of course its not only the color in the shot but then how you processed the saturation and type of paper. I only use semi-gloss for 19x13.

Good luck, its a lot of print for the money unless you plan on doing mostly B&W in which case you should look first at the 9500 as its touted better for B&W.

**Digitalis** · 03-10-2012, 12:07 AM

Well the problem is that this printer has difficulty printing border-less 13"X19" prints on certain paper types. The problem with buying a printer is that you also have to factor in the ink wastage on printer calibration, and the hardware to calibrate printers and monitors doesn't come cheaply either. And buying calibration equipment isn't going to guarantee perfect prints either unless you really know what you are doing. There is also the issue of printer cartridge availability - and how consistent the supplies are that you have at your disposal. There is yet another issue of access to printing paper of sufficient quality, whether you buy it in roll or in pre-cut sheet format ( each have their pro's and con's.) and of course whether the printer you are using has the appropriate paper handling paths fro the job at hand.

Ink yields from ink cartridges vary dramatically depending on the colours used in the images you print, Canon printers use 11ml ink cartridges* - in my opinion that is very small for a 13"X19" printer, and that is dye ink - not pigment ink like what is currently the gold standard for archival processes.

*Ink cartridges for the Epson 3000 are pigment inks and come in ink carts of 25ml of ink, personally I prefer the Epson printer becasue consumables for it are much easier to find here in Oz YMMV.

imtheguy · 03-10-2012, 12:23 AM

I think everyone will agree that if do any volume at all of prints that supplies will cost FAR more than the printer so get the one you want, not just one one on sale. As far as printer calibration, I skipped that expense and just calibrated my "final-edit" monitor until it matched the printed output using manufacturers paper profile. Yes, my editing machine has a second 24" monitor that somehow keeps trying to run Call of Duty or something like that and refuses to edit pics sometimes so it does not get the Spyder 3 treatment.

The Canon dye inks for the Pro9000MkII are advertised to last for 100 years. Its a laugh to wonder how that perfectly round number was created but its your requirements that matter the most. Mine call for only a year or two before the room I am currently in will have all 22 of the 19x13 shots on the wall replaced. I have owned every brand imaginable of inkjet printer and dont claim there is a best one. They all squirt drops of ink, they all clog if unused for weeks at a time and they all run out of expensive ink too often. But it beats the hell out of paying for local or mail order prints that come back looking totally different than your screen.

Go buy something and enjoy!

**Digitalis** · 03-10-2012, 12:44 AM

Originally posted by imtheguy

The Canon dye inks for the Pro9000MkII are advertised to last for 100 years. Its a laugh to wonder how that perfectly round number was created but its your requirements that matter the most

I actually prefer to get the print longevity analysis data from Wilhelm research - who are an independent group instead of getting information from PR literature from the manufacturer. The darkroom Platinum prints I produce can last upwards of 500~1000 years* (assuming they are cared for and stored properly, platinum is an inert metal and the heavyweight cotton paper I use is very stable) but when colour printing into question the longevity of the prints are lucky to be over a century, and don't you fool yourself canon and Epson both use small amounts of their colour inks to reduce the colour shift inherent in their particular formulations of black/grey inks so that has to be taken in to account.

The importance of calibration is so that each subsequent print you make from an image is consistent - so that everyone who buys one of your prints is getting the best possible quality.

* the only digital printing system I have ever seen that is capable of coming close to that longevity figure is the unique piezography system, particularly the Carbon black ink set.

Originally posted by imtheguy

my editing machine has a second 24" monitor that somehow keeps trying to run Call of Duty or something like that

ahh that kinda depends on what is set as your primary monitor

imtheguy · 03-10-2012, 12:56 AM

Originally posted by Digitalis

I actually prefer to get the print longevity analysis data from Wilhelm research - who are an independent group instead of getting information from PR literature from the manufacturer.

ahh that kinda depends on what is set as your primary monitor

I bow out as you are taking this far more serious than I can and still call it fun.

The COD comment was meant to be humor...obviously failed humor though.

Cheers.

**Digitalis** · 03-10-2012, 03:22 AM

Originally posted by imtheguy

I bow out as you are taking this far more serious than I can and still call it fun.

Well I do take my printing very seriously, but that doesn't mean it can't be fun. I just have the most fun when i'm doing things properly - that way I don't have the frustrations of dealing with unanticipated/uncontrollable variables. That is why I suppose I still enjoy darkroom printing - I know what I'm doing, I make my own chemistry for developing paper (and sometimes the film) I have absolute control over my process. But with digital inkjet printing you are giving up control over the process to the manufacturer. The manufacturer designed the printers LUT tables, the screening algorithm, the inks, the print heads,the paper feed mechanism - many of these things limit what you can do and the quality you can achieve. And those limitations is one of the primary reasons why I outsource my inkjet print reproductions.

**PPPPPP42** · 03-10-2012, 09:33 PM

Honestly worrying about how many years a print will last seems kinda silly for the at home person, it will be long enough that a newer better printer will be able to redo the image better and probably cheaper from the same digital file, not a crisis to reprint every decade though I'm sure stuff will go much longer than that.
If you are selling prints you're in a whole different class of printer and supplies than I care to even look at so its not really relevant to this thread.

Despite Epson being one of the best if not THE best in photo printing in many peoples opinions, I refuse to buy their stuff out of childish spite for past transgressions (at least I'm honest) so they are off the menu.

In general this printer is as much of an ink hog as I had heard then, but apparently that's pretty well par for any of these things, if someone has a suggestions for another brand where the larger cartridges would save money (rather than just time changing them) I'd be interested.
I picked this one because I first saw a ton of sample prints from an actual unit in the store on their standard Canon paper for it (and liked what I saw), then looked it up online and saw no real complaints from anyone, then I saw that a board sponsor was selling them for dirt cheap thanks to a rebate and that pretty well sealed it.

**Digitalis** · 03-10-2012, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by PPPPPP42

it will be long enough that a newer better printer will be able to redo the image better and probably cheaper from the same digital file

assuming you can actually find said digital file in about ten years time? what happens if that image becomes one you your most cherished memories? being printed with a inkset that has less than standard longevity will doom that image.

Originally posted by PPPPPP42

Epson being one of the best if not THE best in photo printing in many peoples opinions, I refuse to buy their stuff out of childish spite for past transgressions (at least I'm honest) so they are off the menu

Hewlett packard produce the B9180 - which as it happens to be the only consumer level printer to have a built in spectrophotometer. This feature uses closed loop printer calibration for maximum ease when profiling and when used correctly pretty much guarantees consistent print quality. Michael Reichmann from the Luminous landscape reviews this particular printer here, and Vincent Oliver compares the Hp B9180 to the Canon 9500 and Epson R2400 - which are designed for the same market segment.

Anvh · 03-11-2012, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by Digitalis

which as it happens to be the only consumer level printer to have a built in spectrophotometer

I remember seeing a new printer with build in calibration device last year, not sure which company it was.
Will try to look it up, i thought it was Epson.

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/printer/epson_sp4900.html

**Digitalis** · 03-11-2012, 03:24 PM

the Epson 4900 is a professional 17 inch printer avnh - it is not desighed with the average consumerist amateur photographer in mind. But then again I suppose the Hasselblad H4 with a phase one 80 megapixel medium format digital back is also consumer equipmet, but that depends heavily on the consumer and their level of skill as a photographer and their finances...

Anvh · 03-12-2012, 09:44 AM

I wrote the comment only because i remembered but didn't knew the model and the price at the time...
It looks like an amazing printer though.

With the canon 9000 you also want to invest in a calibration device, even if it's a simple one.
Maybe something like the colormunki might be a nice enough for the serious "amateurs" ?
X-Rite ColorMunki - Review

**PPPPPP42** · 03-12-2012, 10:15 AM

I never really understood the point of a calibration device, why cant a person just print something and hold it up to the monitor, then dink with the settings until the monitor looks the same? It would take very little trial and error to get things satisfactory, and those little calibration toys cost not a small amount. Right now I know my monitor ads a whitish back lit appearance with the same colors compared to what Walmart prints, so I just take that into account though I could adjust things darker if I wanted to match.

eddie1960 · 03-12-2012, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by PPPPPP42

I never really understood the point of a calibration device, why cant a person just print something and hold it up to the monitor, then dink with the settings until the monitor looks the same? It would take very little trial and error to get things satisfactory, and those little calibration toys cost not a small amount. Right now I know my monitor ads a whitish back lit appearance with the same colors compared to what Walmart prints, so I just take that into account though I could adjust things darker if I wanted to match.

If you are making prints for sale they make a lot of sense. Particularly if you are sending things to a pro service as you can calibrate output to there printer (they usually have the profile available for download) Calibrating your home printer as well let's you have proofs that are inline with the results across platforms

That being said for far less than the price of a colourmunki i can take my system into the pro shop i use and they will calibrate everything for me. the caveat being over time you will need to recalibrate devices

Anvh · 03-12-2012, 12:10 PM

I'm a very lazy person so i just link you to a site.
Making prints match your screen

Most important reason is time, accuracy and cost.
Sure you can do some tests print and some more test prints but there goes a lot off time into that and what about the cost of the inkt and paper and you can never get it as accurate as with a device.
And then come the fun part, you can do this all again when you use different kind of paper or even when you use a different photo.

03-09-2012, 10:47 PM	#1
PPPPPP42 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Wisconsin Photos: Albums Posts: 951	Canon PIXMA Pro9000 Mark II? This is my intention: Canon PIXMA Pro9000 Mark II Inkjet Printer 3295B002 B&H Photo Searching on here only really revealed a link to this: Imaging Resource Printer Review: Canon PIXMA Pro9000 Mark II Printer Which seems to be a 1st hand, non magazine sponsor biased review of it saying its great while mentioning a few of the more fiddly details about it. Anyone know how many 13x19's it will spit out before at least one cartridge needs replacement or ink usage in general, even paper for this thing is a fortune but you don't go cheap when buying a printer like this or it defeats the purpose. I realistically expect to print at least 10 pictures in 13x19 (or at least a size more than 8.5x11) for personal use a month. At that rate in a year I would have more than payed for the printer I expect (already spent like $60 this month on prints) and with the rebate that price is amazing since I'm told it comes with sample paper and a complete set of full (not half filled starter) ink cartridges. Input from people requested.

03-10-2012, 12:44 AM	#5
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by imtheguy The Canon dye inks for the Pro9000MkII are advertised to last for 100 years. Its a laugh to wonder how that perfectly round number was created but its your requirements that matter the most I actually prefer to get the print longevity analysis data from Wilhelm research - who are an independent group instead of getting information from PR literature from the manufacturer. The darkroom Platinum prints I produce can last upwards of 500~1000 years* (assuming they are cared for and stored properly, platinum is an inert metal and the heavyweight cotton paper I use is very stable) but when colour printing into question the longevity of the prints are lucky to be over a century, and don't you fool yourself canon and Epson both use small amounts of their colour inks to reduce the colour shift inherent in their particular formulations of black/grey inks so that has to be taken in to account. The importance of calibration is so that each subsequent print you make from an image is consistent - so that everyone who buys one of your prints is getting the best possible quality. * the only digital printing system I have ever seen that is capable of coming close to that longevity figure is the unique piezography system, particularly the Carbon black ink set. Originally posted by imtheguy my editing machine has a second 24" monitor that somehow keeps trying to run Call of Duty or something like that ahh that kinda depends on what is set as your primary monitor Last edited by Digitalis; 03-10-2012 at 12:52 AM.

03-11-2012, 01:44 PM	#10
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by Digitalis which as it happens to be the only consumer level printer to have a built in spectrophotometer I remember seeing a new printer with build in calibration device last year, not sure which company it was. Will try to look it up, i thought it was Epson. http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/printer/epson_sp4900.html Last edited by Anvh; 03-11-2012 at 01:49 PM.

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03-10-2012, 12:01 AM	#2
imtheguy Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,950	I have been doing all my own prints, mostly 19x13 for almost 2 years on the 9000MkII. Afraid I cannot provide any complaints, especially for the price. Having this control over the print process after calibrating both monitors is worth a whole lot. I have yet to do a reprint because the first was too dark (common when you send it out) or color shifted. I took months and help from Canon tech support for me to settle on print software (the Canon program provided) and paper. I never could get perfect match between screen and print with any Adobe or other specialty print package. Using the Canon utility limits me to Canon papers because you cant add other vendors paper profiles to it. But small price to have prints that are better than any I ever got locally. But on to your main question about ink; yes the cartridges are small and if you buy the box of 8 from B&H its a decent discount. But depending on what you shoot (birds with lots of blue sky? portraits with black backgrounds?) you will use some colors 3-4 times before replacing others. I find the Magenta, Yellow and Cyan go fast. Red and Green seem to never go empty. If you made me guess, I would venture that I could get 8-12 full bleed 19x13 shots of birds with mostly blue sky before replacing at the Cyan. Maybe 10-14 for sunrise/sunsets and the yellow+magenta. Of course its not only the color in the shot but then how you processed the saturation and type of paper. I only use semi-gloss for 19x13. Good luck, its a lot of print for the money unless you plan on doing mostly B&W in which case you should look first at the 9500 as its touted better for B&W.

03-10-2012, 12:07 AM	#3
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Well the problem is that this printer has difficulty printing border-less 13"X19" prints on certain paper types. The problem with buying a printer is that you also have to factor in the ink wastage on printer calibration, and the hardware to calibrate printers and monitors doesn't come cheaply either. And buying calibration equipment isn't going to guarantee perfect prints either unless you really know what you are doing. There is also the issue of printer cartridge availability - and how consistent the supplies are that you have at your disposal. There is yet another issue of access to printing paper of sufficient quality, whether you buy it in roll or in pre-cut sheet format ( each have their pro's and con's.) and of course whether the printer you are using has the appropriate paper handling paths fro the job at hand. Ink yields from ink cartridges vary dramatically depending on the colours used in the images you print, Canon printers use 11ml ink cartridges* - in my opinion that is very small for a 13"X19" printer, and that is dye ink - not pigment ink like what is currently the gold standard for archival processes. *Ink cartridges for the Epson 3000 are pigment inks and come in ink carts of 25ml of ink, personally I prefer the Epson printer becasue consumables for it are much easier to find here in Oz YMMV.

03-10-2012, 12:23 AM	#4
imtheguy Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,950	I think everyone will agree that if do any volume at all of prints that supplies will cost FAR more than the printer so get the one you want, not just one one on sale. As far as printer calibration, I skipped that expense and just calibrated my "final-edit" monitor until it matched the printed output using manufacturers paper profile. Yes, my editing machine has a second 24" monitor that somehow keeps trying to run Call of Duty or something like that and refuses to edit pics sometimes so it does not get the Spyder 3 treatment. The Canon dye inks for the Pro9000MkII are advertised to last for 100 years. Its a laugh to wonder how that perfectly round number was created but its your requirements that matter the most. Mine call for only a year or two before the room I am currently in will have all 22 of the 19x13 shots on the wall replaced. I have owned every brand imaginable of inkjet printer and dont claim there is a best one. They all squirt drops of ink, they all clog if unused for weeks at a time and they all run out of expensive ink too often. But it beats the hell out of paying for local or mail order prints that come back looking totally different than your screen. Go buy something and enjoy!

03-10-2012, 12:56 AM	#6
imtheguy Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,950	Originally posted by Digitalis I actually prefer to get the print longevity analysis data from Wilhelm research - who are an independent group instead of getting information from PR literature from the manufacturer. ahh that kinda depends on what is set as your primary monitor I bow out as you are taking this far more serious than I can and still call it fun. The COD comment was meant to be humor...obviously failed humor though. Cheers.

03-10-2012, 03:22 AM	#7
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by imtheguy I bow out as you are taking this far more serious than I can and still call it fun. Well I do take my printing very seriously, but that doesn't mean it can't be fun. I just have the most fun when i'm doing things properly - that way I don't have the frustrations of dealing with unanticipated/uncontrollable variables. That is why I suppose I still enjoy darkroom printing - I know what I'm doing, I make my own chemistry for developing paper (and sometimes the film) I have absolute control over my process. But with digital inkjet printing you are giving up control over the process to the manufacturer. The manufacturer designed the printers LUT tables, the screening algorithm, the inks, the print heads,the paper feed mechanism - many of these things limit what you can do and the quality you can achieve. And those limitations is one of the primary reasons why I outsource my inkjet print reproductions.

03-10-2012, 09:33 PM	#8
PPPPPP42 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Wisconsin Photos: Albums Posts: 951 Original Poster	Honestly worrying about how many years a print will last seems kinda silly for the at home person, it will be long enough that a newer better printer will be able to redo the image better and probably cheaper from the same digital file, not a crisis to reprint every decade though I'm sure stuff will go much longer than that. If you are selling prints you're in a whole different class of printer and supplies than I care to even look at so its not really relevant to this thread. Despite Epson being one of the best if not THE best in photo printing in many peoples opinions, I refuse to buy their stuff out of childish spite for past transgressions (at least I'm honest) so they are off the menu. In general this printer is as much of an ink hog as I had heard then, but apparently that's pretty well par for any of these things, if someone has a suggestions for another brand where the larger cartridges would save money (rather than just time changing them) I'd be interested. I picked this one because I first saw a ton of sample prints from an actual unit in the store on their standard Canon paper for it (and liked what I saw), then looked it up online and saw no real complaints from anyone, then I saw that a board sponsor was selling them for dirt cheap thanks to a rebate and that pretty well sealed it.

03-10-2012, 11:56 PM	#9
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by PPPPPP42 it will be long enough that a newer better printer will be able to redo the image better and probably cheaper from the same digital file assuming you can actually find said digital file in about ten years time? what happens if that image becomes one you your most cherished memories? being printed with a inkset that has less than standard longevity will doom that image. Originally posted by PPPPPP42 Epson being one of the best if not THE best in photo printing in many peoples opinions, I refuse to buy their stuff out of childish spite for past transgressions (at least I'm honest) so they are off the menu Hewlett packard produce the B9180 - which as it happens to be the only consumer level printer to have a built in spectrophotometer. This feature uses closed loop printer calibration for maximum ease when profiling and when used correctly pretty much guarantees consistent print quality. Michael Reichmann from the Luminous landscape reviews this particular printer here, and Vincent Oliver compares the Hp B9180 to the Canon 9500 and Epson R2400 - which are designed for the same market segment.

03-11-2012, 03:24 PM	#11
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	the Epson 4900 is a professional 17 inch printer avnh - it is not desighed with the average consumerist amateur photographer in mind. But then again I suppose the Hasselblad H4 with a phase one 80 megapixel medium format digital back is also consumer equipmet, but that depends heavily on the consumer and their level of skill as a photographer and their finances...

03-12-2012, 09:44 AM	#12
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	I wrote the comment only because i remembered but didn't knew the model and the price at the time... It looks like an amazing printer though. With the canon 9000 you also want to invest in a calibration device, even if it's a simple one. Maybe something like the colormunki might be a nice enough for the serious "amateurs" ? X-Rite ColorMunki - Review

03-12-2012, 10:15 AM	#13
PPPPPP42 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Wisconsin Photos: Albums Posts: 951 Original Poster	I never really understood the point of a calibration device, why cant a person just print something and hold it up to the monitor, then dink with the settings until the monitor looks the same? It would take very little trial and error to get things satisfactory, and those little calibration toys cost not a small amount. Right now I know my monitor ads a whitish back lit appearance with the same colors compared to what Walmart prints, so I just take that into account though I could adjust things darker if I wanted to match.

03-12-2012, 10:28 AM	#14
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,667	Originally posted by PPPPPP42 I never really understood the point of a calibration device, why cant a person just print something and hold it up to the monitor, then dink with the settings until the monitor looks the same? It would take very little trial and error to get things satisfactory, and those little calibration toys cost not a small amount. Right now I know my monitor ads a whitish back lit appearance with the same colors compared to what Walmart prints, so I just take that into account though I could adjust things darker if I wanted to match. If you are making prints for sale they make a lot of sense. Particularly if you are sending things to a pro service as you can calibrate output to there printer (they usually have the profile available for download) Calibrating your home printer as well let's you have proofs that are inline with the results across platforms That being said for far less than the price of a colourmunki i can take my system into the pro shop i use and they will calibrate everything for me. the caveat being over time you will need to recalibrate devices

03-12-2012, 12:10 PM	#15
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	I'm a very lazy person so i just link you to a site. Making prints match your screen Most important reason is time, accuracy and cost. Sure you can do some tests print and some more test prints but there goes a lot off time into that and what about the cost of the inkt and paper and you can never get it as accurate as with a device. And then come the fun part, you can do this all again when you use different kind of paper or even when you use a different photo.