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08-21-2012, 08:11 PM   #1
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printing and color space

Today I decided to head into town and just print a few quick photos at a Kodak self serve kiosk thingy as I haven't printed any from this camera yet.

I exported from lightroom with the sRGB profile (JPG)
My K-X is set to sRGB
I shoot Raw
Photoshop is set to sRGB (may have not edited these in PS tho...)

Anyway, they came out surprisingly good except ones which had people in. Although not extremely bad, the skin tone seemed a tad orange.

Anyone know why? My monitor is not calibrated but pretty good I think. Perhaps this is the problem?

Just worried if I were to one day want an enlarged print on canvas etc, that I would waste money on a messed print

Cheers

Cam

08-21-2012, 08:34 PM   #2
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1. Read this. Color Management Introduction

2. Calibrate your monitor.

3. Use print services that provide accurate ICC profiles.

Otherwise, it's a crap shoot.
08-21-2012, 08:54 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by camo Quote
Today I decided to head into town and just print a few quick photos at a Kodak self serve kiosk thingy as I haven't printed any from this camera yet.

I exported from lightroom with the sRGB profile (JPG)
My K-X is set to sRGB
I shoot Raw
Photoshop is set to sRGB (may have not edited these in PS tho...)

Anyway, they came out surprisingly good except ones which had people in. Although not extremely bad, the skin tone seemed a tad orange.

Anyone know why? My monitor is not calibrated but pretty good I think. Perhaps this is the problem?

Just worried if I were to one day want an enlarged print on canvas etc, that I would waste money on a messed print

Cheers

Cam
Monitors are vital point in getting prints right!
Firstly a calibrated monitor is going to improve what you see tenfold. I thought mine was good until I calibrated it (It was close but noticeably cool and gamma was too low).
Secondly your monitor type will also play a factor here. The two common monitor types are TN panels and IPS Panels. The TN panels are cheaper to make and have faster response times, but generally don't cover much of the Adobe RGB colour space and suffer severe colour shift depending on viewing angle. IPS monitors on the otherhand are slower response times and cover significantly more of the adobe RGB colour space whilst providing near to 180 degree viewing angle with little colour shift.

Here is pretty much all you need to know:
Tutorials on Color Management & Printing

Edit: the previous posters link is also a good alternative.
08-21-2012, 08:56 PM   #4
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One advantage that comes from shooting RAW is the ability to fine tune color balance, especially skin tones. Another advantage is the fact that the image files have much more information in them. Every time you process a jpeg you lose information. If you are thinking down the road that you may want to make some prints, especially bigger than 8x10, you might consider shooting raw instead of jpeg. If you are only going to take casual photos, jpeg is fine.

If you do decide to go the color management route, realize that many print shops will color balance your images for you, especially the lower priced ones. So, even if you do your own color management, whoever prints your images will redo the settings anyway. That's why Ponosby Britt suggests that you also use printer services that provide ICC profiles. Then you can calibrate your images against the printer profiles. Short of paying for custom printing and letting a pro handle your print jobs, that's the best choice.

08-21-2012, 09:17 PM   #5
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You can specify to print as sent, no adjustment. That way, you are in control. Adorama offers this, as does Costco in each store, no need for a pro lab account.
08-21-2012, 09:34 PM   #6
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Unfortunately, nay tragically, Lightroom will only export to file using perceptual rendering intent. It's weird because it will print using relative colormetric. Anyway relative is what you want 95% of the time unless you're worried about smooth gradients with out-of-gamut colors. Perceptual intent shifts all the colors, it compressed them down, even those that are already inside the sRGB gamut which is considerable in size. It tends to make colors look muddy and dull.

Try exporting your files from Lightroom in ProPhoto RGB as TIFFs, and then open them in Photoshop in 32-bit mode, and from there convert it to 8-bit sRGB. The files will be large, but you can delete them once you're done and you have your sRGB JPEGs.

Also if your monitor isn't calibrated using a colorimirter or a spectrophotometer, you're just stabbing in the dark at the white balance and the luminance. Luminance will affect the saturation of the colors you see. Try taking a picture of an 18% gray card with daylight white balance in the room where you have your computer. Then pull up the image on your computer and hold the gray card next to your monitor and adjust the brightness and hue until the image on your screen matches your gray card. At least that will be an educated stab.
08-22-2012, 10:07 AM   #7
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Ok, thanks guys, much appreciated. I do shoot in RAW by the way. Have done since I got the camera. However, being a traveller all I have access to edit on is my Sony Vaio laptop which I'm guessing has a pretty average screen. I'm guessing my best bet is to buy an aftermarket screen and calibrate that at some point. For now I'll do fine as not printing much. Maybe a canvas in the future but like you say I'm sure I can get a shop to do the color management for me.

08-22-2012, 07:32 PM   #8
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The export function in Lightroom is not the appropriate method of embedding ICC profiles in JPEG's for print. Use the Print to file function with the appropriate ICC profile selected for the target printer. Of course you must have a reliable color calibration mechanism for your monitor.

I use Costco for my color printing and I use the appropriate ICC profiles for the printer/paper combination that I use. I also have a small HP inkjet printer which I have created an ICC profile for using my ColorMunki Calibration tool.

Use the correct function and you may print to any color space you want.

The Elitist formerly known as PDL
08-22-2012, 08:23 PM   #9
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Just out of curiosity. If I were to send a file to costco for print. Could I ask them to check the colors wre correct, seeing as I don't have a calibrated monitor?
08-22-2012, 08:46 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by camo Quote
Just out of curiosity. If I were to send a file to costco for print. Could I ask them to check the colors wre correct, seeing as I don't have a calibrated monitor?
No, Costco does not check your color balance. By default, they assume that the JPEG's being sent in are in the sRGB color space and their printers "automatically" correct the image.
There are instructions on the Costco photo site on how to download the appropriate ICC profiles for their printers. They also have a switch you can select to turn off their "auto correct" function. By far the best thing youcan do to gain control over the quality of our prints is to get a monitor calibration tool.

THe Elitist - formerly known as PD>
08-22-2012, 08:48 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by camo Quote
Just out of curiosity. If I were to send a file to costco for print. Could I ask them to check the colors wre correct, seeing as I don't have a calibrated monitor?
How would they know?

Ok, ok, so photo labs have been doing "corrections" for years, but really it's just the technician's best guess at what is correct. Maybe the computer does it now, but it amounts to the same thing. They don't know what your original scene looked like, they don't know that the lens you were using that day renders the blues a little muted, they don't know your artistic intentions, they don't know which zone you want to be zone V. That's what color management is all about, taking control back from the printer.

Try the trick with a gray card, adjust your monitor so that when holding the card next to the monitor you have an accurate representation of hue and value. Maybe stop by a paint store and pick up some color swatches, they're free, and check those in the same manner. Photograph them using daylight white balance in the room where you have your computer, and then hold them next to the monitor. Does the image match what you see in real life? Get some bold colors, but also some subtle ones. Get some skintone colors too. You may need to adjust your contrast and saturation. That's kind of what a colorimiter does. It's not a complete fix, but it'll go a long way.
08-28-2012, 09:11 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by camo Quote
Just out of curiosity. If I were to send a file to costco for print. Could I ask them to check the colors wre correct, seeing as I don't have a calibrated monitor?
That's the realm of a high-end print service. If you want gallery quality prints, that's a good thing. High end printing is an art form that takes lots of practice. A skilled print technician can get you better prints than 99.99% of DYI photographers can produce. Spendy though.
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