[jrkeiser]

Moving from a PC to Mac, so it seems like a good time to reassess how I manage and edit my photos. I currently shoot with a K-5 in RAW+ (DNG) and use PhotoShop Elements 8.0 to manage and edit pictures on the PC. I usually try to limit the amount of post-processing I do and only mess with the RAW file if the jpeg needs a lot of work, but they have come in handy on some occasions.

I'm currently considering the following options:
1. Use PSE 10 for Mac as I have been doing on my PC - multiple versions of the same file after editing, somewhat clunky organizer and sharing not as integrated in Mac as iPhoto
2. Use iPhoto as my file manager and add PSE 10 as an editor if needed. I believe if you choose PSE as your external editor in iPhoto, iPhoto automatically generates a copy of file before it opens it in PSE and then manages both the original and edited versions?
3. Use Lightroom 4 (more powerful editor) and add PSE 10 if needed. Perhaps use in conjunction with iPhoto for easier sharing with other apps and devices by using LR as the default image manager and only exporting the select files as jpegs to a folder to import into iPhoto, then deleting the files in the folder to reduce duplication?
4. Skip iPhoto altogether and just use Lightroom and PSE if needed. Would I miss iPhoto?

Reading through numerous threads and articles, I am still unclear about a couple of things when using non-destructive editors like iPhoto and LR. When sharing photos with other applications or devices such as a smartphone or TV, since the edits are only visible in the editor do you have to save a copy of the edited picture to a different file format (e.g. jpeg) before they can be used? If so, is there any advantage over PSE which will also save the original and an edited version if you want it to?

If you don’t save a copy of the edited file, is there any concern about losing the edits you made should you change software or if the file format (e.g. PEF) is no longer supported in future updates? I worry about future proofing in general with digital images as the technology changes so fast. This really wasn’t a concern with film…

I’d appreciate any comments or suggestions. Thanks in advance for your help.

[twitch]

My advice would be to go with Lightroom and PSE. I've used Aperture for years, and Lightroom briefly, and Lightroom 4 is a lot better than aperture for it's develop module.

On a Mac it is trivially easy to make an automator action so whenever you drop a jpeg into a certain folder, it automagically gets imported into a iPhoto or Aperture project and then removes the file from the directory afterwards. I use this function for my film scanning workflow so scans automatically turn up in Aperture (Aperture has better dust and scratch removal features than Lightroom for scans).

[jrkeiser]

Twitch, thanks for the advice. Do you shoot RAW and do all your post processing in Aperature? If so, do you save a jpeg of everything you edit? If you don't save a jpeg, do you worry about losing your edits in the future? I'm kind of confused as to how people manage and share files in these non destructive editors.

[twitch]

Twitch, thanks for the advice. Do you shoot RAW and do all your post processing in Aperature? If so, do you save a jpeg of everything you edit? If you don't save a jpeg, do you worry about losing your edits in the future? I'm kind of confused as to how people manage and share files in these non destructive editors.

Great question.

For a long time I didn't. However I do now export all my "3+ star" images to a folder periodically. I'd like to have an automated routine for this but haven't quite figured it out. The initial reason I did this is if got hit by a bus, my wife would be clueless as to how to access the photos and what to do with a bunch of DNG files. Also if for any reason the photos lie dormant for 5+ years it might mean there is no software to open the DNG's with my Aperture edits.

So I now have a folder tree called "Best photos" with all my 3+ star photos as jpegs at Quality 11 in original size. Some of these and the 4+ star go into the cloud.

[boriscleto]

For the last year I have shot RAW almost exclusively. I also use Aperture almost exclusively, though I use iPhoto for a few things. The nice thing about the latest version of Aperture is that the library is shared with the iPhoto library.

Aperture 3 User Manual - Basic Components of Aperture

If I need to use an external editor I use Pixelmator.

[northcoastgreg]

I primarily use Lightroom, with non-Lightroom tasks being done in Photoshop CS5. I do most of my initial edits on a laptop and then the final refinements on a desktop machine. I use the "export to catalog," "import to catalog" functions to transfer metadata back-and-forth between computers. So in effect I already have the one backup there. Then I make two more backups of my best files as DNGs with the Lightroom metadata saved to the individual files. And I also have a number of full resolution jpegs saved at fineartamerica.com.

[rockmaster1964]

I only use Lightroom. It does everything I need.

[normhead]

I only use Aperture, it does everything I need. Up until Aperture 3 I was still using Photoshop for serious editing. Since Aperture 3 came out it's all Aperture and Pixelmator. I've developed my own presets for Aperture, and most images are post processed with a single click and few minor adjustments. I still have Photoshop on one of my computers, but I haven't used it for over a year, except for possibly trying some HDR, where I've preferred images created with masks in Pixelmator to the automated HDR in Photoshop. Aperture has simplified things to the point where, you can probably do them better in Photoshop, but it's going to take you a lot more time and a lot more of a learning curve to get what you want. And the differences in the finished files are going to be minimal. Every software has it's strengths and weaknesses, and I'm not saying Aperture is perfect, but if you actually pick up a book or two and find out exactly what each control does, you'll be impressed. It isn't done to be Photoshop light.. it uses some completely different paradigms, and I'm not convinced if you've used Lightroom, you can pick up Aperture and know what you're doing. I know twitch posted a file a while ago where he gave himself a minute or two to try and compare the two. trouble is, he didn't know Aperture, and I'm not sure he knew Lightroom, and I didn't post in his thread just because of the magnitude of trying to explain to him how Aperture works and what he was doing wrong. And also because of the one minute limitation, or two minutes or whatever it was.

So my advice, get Aperture, read a book or two, find out exactly what each command is doing, and develop a few presets to suit your style. I've gone from 20 minutes an image to less than 5, sometimes as little as a few seconds. If you know what you're going for... sometimes a few presets is all you need. I don't see how it can be any easier than one mouse click.

[tclausen]

My advice would be to go with Lightroom and PSE. I've used Aperture for years, and Lightroom briefly, and Lightroom 4 is a lot better than aperture for it's develop module.

On a Mac it is trivially easy to make an automator action so whenever you drop a jpeg into a certain folder, it automagically gets imported into a iPhoto or Aperture project and then removes the file from the directory afterwards. I use this function for my film scanning workflow so scans automatically turn up in Aperture (Aperture has better dust and scratch removal features than Lightroom for scans).

Interesting....I may not be the most advanced user, but I did find Aperture as the more *intuitive* solution when compared to LightRoom for organizing, managing and editing my photo library.

I'd stay clear of iPhoto, though, that's not of any value if you use Aperture. I do not know (lack of experience) how LR integrates in a flow?

[tclausen]

For the last year I have shot RAW almost exclusively. I also use Aperture almost exclusively, though I use iPhoto for a few things. The nice thing about the latest version of Aperture is that the library is shared with the iPhoto library.

Aperture 3 User Manual - Basic Components of Aperture

If I need to use an external editor I use Pixelmator.

+1

Aperture + Pixelmator + PhotomatixHDR are all I ever use. That combo is a LOT cheaper than PhotoShop.

[twitch]

Interesting....I may not be the most advanced user, but I did find Aperture as the more *intuitive* solution when compared to LightRoom for organizing, managing and editing my photo library.

I'd stay clear of iPhoto, though, that's not of any value if you use Aperture. I do not know (lack of experience) how LR integrates in a flow?

Actually I should have said I find Lightroom is better only for it's develop module, and even then not for spot healing. Lightroom interface is ugly as hell and unintuitive coming from Aperture. Still; the shadows, highlights, clarity, sharpening, CA & distortion and noise removal sliders are absolutely awesome. If I could have Aperture but with those LR tools built in (Aperture v4?), I would be in PP heaven.

[normhead]

The only area I find Aperture lacking would be noise removal, and if that's important there is really good third party noise removal software.... the two sharpening sliders and the definition slider, shadow and highlight commands and the ability to use all of those things in the whole picture, just in the highlights, just in the shadows or just in the midtones creates quite a bit of flexibility. I'm not sure why you think those things are not built in to Aperture.

[twitch]

I know shadows, highlights & sharpening are in aperture, I use them all the time, but they are not as good as those in LR.

[jrkeiser]

Thanks to everyone for their advice so far. I'd like to compare Lightroom and Aperture when I get my Mac, but I don't think Apple offers a free trial anymore. As far as dealing with files in these programs, I still have a lot to learn. However, this discussion has been very helpful.

[jrkeiser]

A quick follow up question... Are tnoise reduction and smart sharpen tools the same in LR and PSE? I had kind of ruled out Aperture due to reported superiority of LR in these two functions in particular, but if the same tools are available in PSE then I may still want to consider Aperture. I kind of like the idea of Aperture's integration with iPhoto, iTunes, etc. Thanks again.