[Marc Sabatella]

2. GIMP being a "raw converter" and not being able to store changes non-destructively. Oh my, where should I begin?

I'd start by reading my original remarks and understanding their context.

a) GIMP is not a raw converter but a pixel editor which can save all changes made to a file (provided the undo buffers are large enough) as well as all layer events provided a file is saved in its native format, XCF - not unlike PS where PSD is the native format saving the layers and adjustments.
b) UFRaw is most definitely a raw converter and does allow you to save all settings in a global settings file as well as an individual sidecar file (aptly named *.ufraw) which can be applied to other images.

So I guess the question is, if ufraw's sidecar system allows you to *not* convert to another format, but instead simply work with your files in their raw state at all times - or at least, until/unless you have some sort of special need for something that actually *requires* conversion. If ufraw can manage these sidecars in a way that allows you to work directly with your raw files with no conversion to another file format - which is the distinction I am making here - then we are back to my original question: *why* is the OP trying to convert to TIFF or PNG or JPEG at all? Whatever special reason he has for needing to leave the raw domain, that reason will help make the decision as to which format and resolution to use. But if ufraw lacks this ability to manage the sidecars in a way that lets you stay in the raw domain, then it's still quite limited by modern standards in terms of the workflow it supports.

I certainly know there are software packages that have blurred the distinction between raw converter and image editing like Lightroom or RawTherapee but I am by no means enthusiastic about them. After all, they "fake" an edit to the raw file, instead converting it internally to a bitmap with the pure raw conversion settings and then applying pixel-based edits to that bitmap to make you (wrongly) think you are "editing the raw file" or to confuse you into thinking sharpening is part of raw conversion (just one example).

You are mistaken about how these programs work. Yes, of course they do not "edit" the raw data, but the adjustments they make are often applied *preconversion* to visible bitmap. Or, more to the point, they affect *how* the conversion is performed. Some may be performed post-conversion, true, but only to the extent that makes sense - and as you've observed, that's what you do anyhow. It's just that programs like LR make this process infinitely easier when dealing with more than one image. You might get good results on any one given image with the old-fashioned workflow, but I'm not just talking about results - I;'m talking about workflow.

I am also aware that these packages are highly regarded and deliver excellent results. However, there's a downside to this: too many people just move a few sliders around until they like what they see on the screen without being aware of the impact on image quality/degradation and without actually knowing what internal string of operations are influenced by these sliders.

Not sure what sort of degradation you imagine might be taking place, but I assure you there is less of it if one can apply it pre-conversion than post. So to the extent LR or other programs do this, they result in less degradation than the ufraw/gimp approach. And certainly , there is no possible basis for imagining that playing with sliders in LR could in any way shape or form result in *more* degradation than performing the same adjustments in the gimp.

[newmikey]

I give up, it is an absolute waste of time as far as I'm concerned. "the adjustments they make are often applied *preconversion* to visible bitmap" indicates to me exactly where you stand - in denial.

[simico]

It's just not a full featured *raw processing program*

It isn't a raw processing program at all. It needn't and shouldn't be. I can't imagine why anyone would expect raw processing program functionality from it. Just like how a heavy duty dumper isn't a rally racing car and you can't expect to win the rally with it or to move 5 tons of gravel with a racing car. They are for different purposes. If someone doesn't understand that then... uhm, maybe educate yourself a bit more.

I guess the OP is using Gimp due to doing image manipulations that raw converter programs can't do that well or at all.

I'm done with this thread.

[Marc Sabatella]

I give up, it is an absolute waste of time as far as I'm concerned. "the adjustments they make are often applied *preconversion* to visible bitmap" indicates to me exactly where you stand - in denial.

No need for insults. It is very clear to me there are things you do not understand about this software with which you admit to having little experience works. If you are not interested in learning about it, that's fine, but don't shoot the messenger. I, on the other hand, also admit to not know much about how the GIMP works, but I at least am open to learning, which is why I am asking questions.

[Marc Sabatella]

I can't imagine why anyone would expect raw processing program functionality from it.

Agreed, but that's my point - I think the OP is not aware of this, which is why I am trying to inform him of this fact we both seem to agree on.

I guess the OP is using Gimp due to doing image manipulations that raw converter programs can't do that well or at all.

Could be, but here's what he actually wrote:

"I just did a little raw shooting with my new lens to try it out.I've saved the raw in DNG format and imported it into Gimp 2.8 via ufraw", and then shortly thereafter, " I gotta get better with working with raw files"

Doesn't sound to me like he needs some special exotic processing that can't be done from raw processing. Sounds to me like he is new to the whole idea of shooting raw and what raw workflow is or can be, and is using the GIMP simply because he already has it and it's free. Hence, my concern that he is using the wrong tool for the job. I think it a valid concern regardless of the knee jerk reactions of who want to attack me for daring to suggest that the GIMP might have very real disadvantages in terms of *workflow* (while still being capable of fine *results*).

[Iksobarg]

ok, as straigtforward as possible,
anyone can recommend raw format/processing (converting raw to jpg/png) software?
I have myself to blame.. got into raw/.pef without knowing how to use any softwares... and the ones I am aware of have seemingly steep learning curves
can't find a decent tutorial for silkypix, don't even know if it converts to other formats (does it? how? I googled for tutorials and about it converting to no end)
gimp I already heard is not ideal, but will it do a reasonable job AND convert to smaller format?
lightroom seems right but prohibitive until I can justify the cost..
I'm no pro, just love to take great pics of my little ones and family and stuff
hehhlp!
(sorry I wrote this kinda quick, later here.)
you guys are great no matter what! thanks!

[newmikey]

anyone can recommend raw format/processing (converting raw to jpg/png) software?

Try RawTherapee - free and does all the singing and dancing you could want. UFRaw is fine as well either as standalone raw converter or as plugin to Gimp but as you already noted, Gimp has a steep learning curve. It is extremely powerful however.

I have myself to blame.. got into raw/.pef without knowing how to use any softwares... and the ones I am aware of have seemingly steep learning curves

Never mind, save the raws and one day you will be able to go back to them with more skill and knowledge. What you could do in the meantime, if all you really want is to have the smaller format, is to extract the embedded JPEG preview that's already in the raw file with f.i. Irfanview (free again) - it's perfectly OK for web and small prints.

[top-quark]

lightroom seems right but prohibitive until I can justify the cost..

Lightroom 4 is $130 / £100. Not free but not prohibitive either.

If all you need to do is turn those PEF files into something you can use / share, you can download Lightroom and use it for 30 days.