[Class A]

Thanks to a post by stormtech, I became aware of the Sagelight Image Editor.

Here's a small video introduction:

You Tube

You Tube

There are more video tutorials on YouTube .

You can download a free 30-day trial and obtain a lifetime upgrade license for $39.95 later (this deals seems to be limited).

I have only played with it a little so here's my very incomplete impression:

Likes

• Very fast! Updates to previews are done in real-time and the smooth editing experience is many times better than what Lightroom has to offer on my machine.
• Any image effect can be applied to a local area of the image only. Lightroom only allows a restricted set of adjustments to be applied locally.
• Masks (for confining edits to local areas) can be created in many (powerful) ways.\
• There are many hints about usage in the software itself. Maybe there should be (is?) a mode for more experienced users to turn off some elements, but for a beginner all the hints and tool-tips are great. N.B., initial help dialogues can be turned off.
• It reads converted DNG files, i.e., not only DNG files as produced by cameras, but also DNG files that were created from PEF files, for example.
• There are some cool filters (e.g., oil-painting) and overall, the software probably offers most of what a photographer would use from Photoshop for a fraction of the price.

Dislikes

• Image editing is destructive. This is the killer for me. I sometimes want to revisit my image edits and Sagelight does not have an explicit history, i.e., it does not allow you to revisit previous editing decisions. Everything you do is "baked" into the image and you'll have to save intermediate versions (or create snapshots within Sagelight) if you anticipate that you may need to make different choices. Even if you have an intermediate image, you'll have to redo everything you did from there. Lightroom is non-destructive; Photoshop is destructive, but offers smart objects, layers, and adjustment layers that all help to make decisions less permanent.
• There are no layers as known from Photoshop or Gimp. You can overlay/blend between two different versions of images, but Sagelight is not the right choice if you intend to do compositing (i.e., create one image from many others).
• Important keyboard shortcuts are missing. For instance, there does not seem to be a keyboard shortcut for taking you into a full screen preview. You cannot press spacebar and move the image around with the mouse while you are looking at a zoomed portion. You have to use a navigation window.
• There is no "full-screen" mode for the editor itself. One always sees the menu bar and the windows launch bar. Lightroom can take over a 100% and I love that feature.
• Sagelight has no digital assest management functions. Like RawTherapee, it focuses on single image editing alone. One can probably combine it with Faststone or a similar application, but an integrated solution has its advantages.

According to the author, Sagelight will see a lot of future development and one can expect things like the currently cumbersome image navigation to be addressed in future versions.

Overall, I was very impressed. If only it supported non-destructive editing, I would have bought a copy already. Still thinking about it, though.

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Last edited by Class A; 11-01-2012 at 05:38 PM.

[stormtech]

Thanks for posting this Class A and for your nice review.

Before I comment on the pros and cons of my brief visit with Sagelight, I want to have up top here that this program is $40 with free lifetime updates. This is what first drew me to Sagelight after DxO is once again charging their yearly fee of $49 to keep current without any major upgrades. This seems to be a trend with most editing applications nowadays and I am trying to stray away from that if possible.

I kind of struggle with post processing, but am having a blast learning as I go. I use Acdsee Pro 6 as my default raw editor which I am very comfortable with and does most anything I want with an image and is easy to understand. I've been looking for an editor where I can go farther into the editing process but be easy to learn and use. So far after a couple days with Sagelight I am pretty happy with it.

What Class A says as his deal breaker is the destructive editing. This is true, but an easy work around for me is to always work on a copy. I've always done that anyway partially I guess because I live in the boonies and brief power interruptions are common even when the sun is shining. There is no worse feeling of working on something important, weather it be an image of document, and the power flickers. Yes, I have my system on a battery backup which will last ~20 minutes including my monitor, but I am just in the habit of always working on a copy leaving the original in a different folder.

I have a lot to learn with Sagelight, but I have already decided to dedicate the time to do it. There are many instructional videos on almost all the functions. And updates are common - one of which is an HDR module that was brought into play because of the popularity of HDR lately. Also every tool has a tool tip pop-up (which of course is optional) which really makes it easy to understand what the certain tool does. For me this is great and I have already surpassed my editing skills with other editors.

So for me, the $40 was well spent and I am looking forward to learning all it can do.

[Class A]

What Class A says as his deal breaker is the destructive editing. This is true, but an easy work around for me is to always work on a copy. I've always done that anyway partially I guess because I live in the boonies and brief power interruptions are common even when the sun is shining.

Unfortunately, working on copies (or using snapshots) is not a full solution.

The problem with copies is that reverting to them always means throwing away all edits from a certain point in time onwards.

Say I went for a particular set of sharpening parameters and then do many more edits, such as colour balancing, cloning, etc. Suddenly, I discover that my sharpening was too aggressive. If I go back to an unsharpened copy then I lose all subsequent edits. With a non-destructive approach, I simply go back to my sharpening settings and adjust them. All subsequent edits are still in place and I don't lose anything.

One could argue that adjustments like sharpening should always come last and hence redoing them does not imply losing anything, but

1. There are a number of adjustments that compete for being best left as a last step, and
2. I like to fix what is most wrong with an image immediately.

I wouldn't want to postpone certain edits in order to support better re-adjustments in the future, and hence be forced to work with a fuzzy, or noise image during most of the editing.

[stormtech]

I understand better now what you are talking about. I am so used to Acdsee with the same non-destructive editing that I didn't think much about it.

And yes, I have gone back to a developed/edited image that I might have done a long time ago and revisit it with some new skills or new tools that become available.

I am going to read up some more about this issue with Sagelight - I like it enough that I want it to work!

[causey]

[*]Image editing is destructive. This is the killer for me.

My problem, too. I tried it--nice piece of software, but I use LR after DxO batch processing (with my settings), and I'm addicted to LR's history.
I'm still thinking, maybe it isn't a bad idea to still get Sagelight, since now it comes with lifetime upgrades. It's like an investment. And I like the bokeh function, which doesn't exist in either LR or DxO.

[rawr]

I'm still thinking, maybe it isn't a bad idea to still get Sagelight,

So now your workflow can go: DxO > LR > SageLight
Starts to get complicated.

[causey]

So now your workflow can go: DxO > LR > SageLight
Starts to get complicated.

Sagelight may be useful for certain photos, and, who knows, maybe it can replace LR someday.

[stormtech]

An interesting read by the author with his view of raw editors. He doesn't really talk about his software being destructive, but interesting anyway:

Some Raw Truth about RAW Converters | Sagelight Image Editor Blog & Newsletter

After reading that, plus a couple other pieces of information I found from him on the subject, I think he is saying that to get the level of editing you can with Sagelight that it may need to be destructive to a certain point....that is how I am reading it anyway.

I guess most of are spoiled in a way from using our non-destructive editors. For me, as I am just a basic hobbyist and don't too often get that "once in a lifetime" capture, I am willing to work around this for now in that I don't mind having to save my original raw file and possibly have to start over with it if need be.

[twilhelm]

I purchased Sagelight about 6 months ago and I really enjoy using it, but I am also put off by the destructive editing. I would also like to be able to save photos as something other than jpg (tiff or whatever raw format) when I intend to work on it again at a later time.
I hope they address the editing part sometime soon in another update. Until then LR gets more attention from me.

[Class A]

After reading that, plus a couple other pieces of information I found from him on the subject, I think he is saying that to get the level of editing you can with Sagelight that it may need to be destructive to a certain point....that is how I am reading it anyway.

I didn't read anything to that effect in the article linked to. I'd furthermore be very surprised if he said anything like it anywhere else.

EDIT: Colour me surprised. He indeed writes:

There is no way to have all of the functions Sagelight has without being destructive, and the new rapid editing mode coming will allow Sagelight to work with both methods.

However, I'd challenge him on that statement.

The only potential problem of non-destructive editing is performance (but there are ways to address this aspect).

[stormtech]

Well it was that article in combination with some of his forum posts that lead me to that conclusion.....

DNG's and re-edting images - Sagelight Image Editor Discussion Board

There is no way to have all of the functions Sagelight has without being destructive

[Class A]

Thanks for the link, stormtech. I found the statement as well and edited my post before I saw yours.

I challenged his statement in his forum, but I need moderator approval before my post(s) can appear.

It is a bit worrying that Rob's last forum activity was in mid-September. The Sagelight facebook page has some users worried about not receiving responses. Let's hope he is just on a well-deserved holiday, or similar.

[stormtech]

.It is a bit worrying that Rob's last forum activity was in mid-September. The Sagelight facebook page has some users worried about not receiving responses. Let's hope he is just on a well-deserved holiday, or similar.

I was a bit concerned also. I paid for my license key late Tuesday night. Afterward, I saw a post on another forum saying this person paid for their license on October 25th and had no response - tried various ways of contact and still nothing. At that point I thought I would end up having to file a PayPal dispute, but the next morning I received the email with the license code. Guess I got lucky with that, but it still does concern me about his absence.

[Parallax]

I challenged his statement in his forum, but I need moderator approval before my post(s) can appear.

I see no reason for that, and haven't seen any of your posts in the mod queue. If one of your posts was moderated, it was likely trapped by the system based on content. (That does not mean there was anything wrong with the post.) I don't know all of the criteria that the system uses to send posts to the queue, but we approve dozens every day that were trapped and perfectly acceptable. If you find it happening frequently, send Adam a PM, or start a thread in the Site Help forum.

[L33tGreg]

Linux is supported officially! (albeit, through wine)