Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
12-11-2012, 05:31 PM   #1
Junior Member




Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Västra Götaland
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 32
Colour problems with LR4 exports.

I have a problem with my exports getting way too saturated and I don't know why.
The camera is set to sRGB and every setting I can find inside Lightroom is set to sRGB as well. Whenever I export to disk and view with picasa, publish to facebook or some other web gallery via ftp publish plugin the result is freakishly colourful. This have not always been the case, but I'm uncertain if the colourfulness came at the time I went from LR3.x to LR4 or at some time later.
There's one exception. The photos I publish via FTP goes to a NAS (Synology DiskStation) with a built-in web server and photo sharing application. The images that the application resizes for thumbnails and normal viewing gets colourful, but if I choose to download the original it's strangely enough ok (if I view it in the browser or choose to download and view with picasa. - I think I'll need to confirm this again, it's just too strange).

Today I wanted to send a photo to a friend. So I made an export and opend the file in picasa to see if I got the right one and I got the colourful version. Then I tried to export again, this time setting AdobeRGB in the export setting, and it looked alright this time. Well fine. I could be content at this point, getting the result I wanted, but I'm not. Isn't it supposed to work? I expect LR to display the photo's in the same way they are going ti be displayed when exported if the settings are the same from the camera to the exported image. It did before.

Sorry for the rant, it seems like this post got to be some sort of outlet for my frustration I'm feeling right now . Please help!

12-11-2012, 06:05 PM   #2
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,173
What format are you exporting in? JPEG presumably?

I've upgraded from LR3.6 to LR4.2 just over a month ago and haven't noticed this behaviour. My workflow is DNG files from my K-x into LR and then out as JPEGs, either to post on the Forum or import into Picasa for upload to Picasa Web.

Maybe check the Export parameters carefully in case there is something odd there in a parameter you don't norally look at. I carried over the Export Presets I had in 3.6, so haven't ever looked that what the 4.2 export defaults were.
12-11-2012, 06:43 PM   #3
Junior Member




Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Västra Götaland
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 32
Original Poster
Yes. I'm exporting to jpeg.
There aren't that many relevant settings while exporting. There's "file settings" with "image format" (jpeg etc) "quality" and "color space". Other than that I can't see what other settings could have an effect of the output in that way.
12-11-2012, 07:40 PM   #4
Pentaxian
Miguel's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Near Seattle
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,736
QuoteOriginally posted by bengibollen Quote
I have a problem with my exports getting way too saturated and I don't know why.
The camera is set to sRGB and every setting I can find inside Lightroom is set to sRGB as well. Whenever I export to disk and view with picasa, publish to facebook or some other web gallery via ftp publish plugin the result is freakishly colourful. This have not always been the case, but I'm uncertain if the colourfulness came at the time I went from LR3.x to LR4 or at some time later.
There's one exception. The photos I publish via FTP goes to a NAS (Synology DiskStation) with a built-in web server and photo sharing application. The images that the application resizes for thumbnails and normal viewing gets colourful, but if I choose to download the original it's strangely enough ok (if I view it in the browser or choose to download and view with picasa. - I think I'll need to confirm this again, it's just too strange).

Today I wanted to send a photo to a friend. So I made an export and opend the file in picasa to see if I got the right one and I got the colourful version. Then I tried to export again, this time setting AdobeRGB in the export setting, and it looked alright this time. Well fine. I could be content at this point, getting the result I wanted, but I'm not. Isn't it supposed to work? I expect LR to display the photo's in the same way they are going ti be displayed when exported if the settings are the same from the camera to the exported image. It did before.

Sorry for the rant, it seems like this post got to be some sort of outlet for my frustration I'm feeling right now . Please help!
Sounds like you have a jambalaya of color management issues here.
Where to start?
Facts help.
What computer and OS are you using?
What browsers are you using to evaluate the color accuracy of the images? Only a few are color managed. When you add aRGB (1998) to the mix, you are complicating an already complicated situation.

Are your monitors calibrated and profiled? What profile are you using?
It would help for you to break down your whole process into specific software tools used--that way we can see which ones are color managed (like LR) and which are not.

Additional: were your originals RAW files, or were they always jpegs?

This too may help:
Is your system ICC Version 4 ready?
WEB BROWSER COLOR MANAGEMENT Tutorial - Test Page FireFox Safari Chrome Internet Explorer IE 10- FILES have embedded ICC profiles Photoshop ColorManagement


M


Last edited by Miguel; 12-11-2012 at 07:46 PM.
12-11-2012, 09:44 PM   #5
Junior Member




Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Västra Götaland
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 32
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Miguel Quote
Sounds like you have a jambalaya of color management issues here.
Where to start?
Facts help.
What computer and OS are you using?
What browsers are you using to evaluate the color accuracy of the images? Only a few are color managed. When you add aRGB (1998) to the mix, you are complicating an already complicated situation.

Are your monitors calibrated and profiled? What profile are you using?
It would help for you to break down your whole process into specific software tools used--that way we can see which ones are color managed (like LR) and which are not.

Additional: were your originals RAW files, or were they always jpegs?

M
Oh crap. I feel so stupid now. I have just assumed that the problems I had today was related to other problems I've had (with facebook and NAS). So I didn't bother to open the files in another software. But as I thought of uploading samples to this thread I tried to open the problematic file in Firefox and it was fine. But picasa was still a problem, wich I found a bit strange. Why wouldn't google add colour management, that's just stupid. Well, It turns out, after a embarrassingly quick search, that they actually do manage colours. Just not by default in the previewer. So after I checked a box in the configuration marked "Enable Color management", I get what I wanted in picasa as well.

So I guess my problems now are not in my own system or software but a result of processing (rescaling) of my images on Facebook and on my photo application on my web server (NAS). I'm guessing if some instance removes the profile information from the photo, the colours get whacked? Is there a way to get around that? I wan't my images to look at least acceptable even for people who don't know anything about colour management.

I'm fully aware Facebook is not the optimal place to show high quality photos, so I consider that a lost cause. If I send a photo to a friend though, I'd like them to be able to see the photo as close as possible like I intended it to be with whatever software they prefer to use. But I guess this dilemma is what colour management is made for and tough luck if the software is not managed...



I got this far before realizing my mistake:
I have a stationary win7-64 system (intel i5-2500K, 16GB, AMD Radeon HD 6800, DELL) With a DELL U2711 monitor (27" wide gamut IPS display) witch I've set to sRGB. I don't have a hardware calibrator yet, but the colours doesn't seem that off. But if I compare images on the same display, the calibration wouldn't be an issue. I use the factory profile for the monitor though.
The originals are always RAW files (DNG).
I haven't tested this problems extensively using a host of different softwares and such, I was hoping someone would have an insight in the problem before I go through that. Locally I use picasa and Firefox 17 (explicitly set to use ICC version 4, at least some previous versions of FF didn't use that setting for some reason. Photos I've published directly to Facebook do look equally strange on my iphone and on other peoples computers and when I uploaded images to the DiskStation I got comments from my parents about the colourful photos and my brother thought I maybe should tone down a bit on my post processing ;-) ...
12-11-2012, 11:03 PM   #6
Pentaxian
Miguel's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Near Seattle
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,736
QuoteOriginally posted by bengibollen Quote
If I send a photo to a friend though, I'd like them to be able to see the photo as close as possible like I intended it to be with whatever software they prefer to use.
OK, thanks for providing the background information. Reaching your goal is best served by keeping things simple. Few browsers are color managed out of the box, fewer people know how to configure color management in their browser, or anywhere really. Most people use cheap TN monitors aimed at gamers. Most laptop monitors are lousy. Most people will view your compressed Facebook images on small phone screens. That's a part of the problem faced by photographers who care about how their images are viewed online.

If you are shooting RAW (DNG), the in-camera color space setting is irrelevant. Lightroom will deal with the pictures in its internal hybrid of Melissa and ProPhotoRGB. When you export jpegs, I suggest you simply use the sRGB color space for the web and for friends. That's a more or less accepted baseline for better or worse.

I only know one person who can calibrate his monitor by eye, and this is a gifted artist whose skills help sell $100 million airplanes. Certainly get a good hardware calibrator for your nice new IPS monitor. It's a bit like being lucky enough to have a beautiful sweetheart, but then you buy her chintzy clothes. 'Nuff said.

M
12-12-2012, 12:15 AM   #7
Pentaxian




Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Gabriola Island
Posts: 604
QuoteOriginally posted by Miguel Quote
OK, thanks for providing the background information. Reaching your goal is best served by keeping things simple. Few browsers are color managed out of the box, fewer people know how to configure color management in their browser, or anywhere really. Most people use cheap TN monitors aimed at gamers. Most laptop monitors are lousy. Most people will view your compressed Facebook images on small phone screens. That's a part of the problem faced by photographers who care about how their images are viewed online.

If you are shooting RAW (DNG), the in-camera color space setting is irrelevant. Lightroom will deal with the pictures in its internal hybrid of Melissa and ProPhotoRGB. When you export jpegs, I suggest you simply use the sRGB color space for the web and for friends. That's a more or less accepted baseline for better or worse.

I only know one person who can calibrate his monitor by eye, and this is a gifted artist whose skills help sell $100 million airplanes. Certainly get a good hardware calibrator for your nice new IPS monitor. It's a bit like being lucky enough to have a beautiful sweetheart, but then you buy her chintzy clothes. 'Nuff said.

M
I agree with Miguel. A properly calibrated monitor is essential for colour management. As well as problems viewing your images on monitors, it is very likely that printing will be a major headache without monitor calibration. (I used to do calibration by eye, in the days before Windows had ICM. It was a major struggle., and the results were never more than adequate.)
12-12-2012, 05:56 AM   #8
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,173
sRGB is the assumed color space for pretty well anything that doesn't have profile management, so you would think that exporting in sRGB would display OK so the reluctance of Picasa to displace your sRGB jpegs correctly by default is confusing. The fact that your jpegs display OK after enabling color management suggests to me they are not in fact sRGB. Why that is not the case is then the question. I'm on a tablet at the moment so can't look at a jpeg file's attributes to see where it specific the color space but that's where I would check next to confirm exactly what color space the file truly is.

12-13-2012, 08:39 AM   #9
Junior Member




Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Västra Götaland
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 32
Original Poster
Seems like a calibrator need to move up a bit in my priority list. I've been thinking about getting a spyder 4 pro. Do you have any other tips and pointers regarding calibrators?

Let's see if I've got this right. If I open a file without a color profile in a color managed software it is usually assumed that the image uses sRGB. So if I have a file with a sRGB profile and makes a copy in wich I strip this information they both should look the same anyway?
12-13-2012, 09:13 AM   #10
Veteran Member
riff's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,408
QuoteOriginally posted by bengibollen Quote
a DELL U2711 monitor (27" wide gamut IPS display)
QuoteOriginally posted by Dell:
Built-in Color Accuracy Factory-tuned Adobe RGB and sRGB modes minimize the need for further color calibration; each monitor arrives with a certified color-calibration factory report.
Seems just the ticket.
12-13-2012, 01:39 PM   #11
Pentaxian
Miguel's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Near Seattle
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,736
Spyder4 is a very good calibrator that should meet most users' needs. The xrite i1 Display Pro is notably superior as it manages ambient light better. The inherent software works fairly well too. It's somewhat pricier. You are actually purchasing both the hardware device and the calibration software.

There is superior third-party software that will work with either of these devices. Checkout Argyll color management as well as the DispcalGUI front end. Less user friendly but more accurate.

Don't strip off any sRGB data. Some systems and browsers are wrongly configured to use an inappropriate profile that will serve as a default. If you rely on LR for image export, choose sRGB and let it be.

M
12-13-2012, 03:37 PM   #12
Pentaxian
Miguel's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Near Seattle
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,736
QuoteOriginally posted by riff Quote
Seems just the ticket.
That Dell stuff is just marketing hoo ha. A monitor has to be calibrated and profiled to one's particular working environment. This includes ambient lighting and how illuminated the monitor is set for. Most monitors out of the box are way too bright-- it's analogous to how music is perceived to be better if turned up to 11. 110-120 cd/m2 is a good starting point.

M
12-13-2012, 07:57 PM   #13
Junior Member




Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Västra Götaland
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 32
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Miguel Quote
Spyder4 is a very good calibrator that should meet most users' needs. The xrite i1 Display Pro is notably superior as it manages ambient light better. The inherent software works fairly well too. It's somewhat pricier. You are actually purchasing both the hardware device and the calibration software.

There is superior third-party software that will work with either of these devices. Checkout Argyll color management as well as the DispcalGUI front end. Less user friendly but more accurate.

Don't strip off any sRGB data. Some systems and browsers are wrongly configured to use an inappropriate profile that will serve as a default. If you rely on LR for image export, choose sRGB and let it be.
The xrite is a bit more expenive than I'm prepared to spend. I'm not a professional after all. :-)
I'll check out the other softwares as well.

The stripping of sRGB thing was more like a hypothetical question. I'd like to understand this concept more. Like why I get the results I get when the web gallery software scales my images. The rescaled versions loses all exif-data (checked with PhotoME) and the colours are bad. But if the browser assumes sRGB if color info is missing, the images should look the same as the original wich has sRGB embedded? This is what I'm not getting.

Thanks for all answers from everyone so far. You are really helping me. I thought I had got a pretty good idea about how color management works. But there seems to be some gaps in my knowledge that needs to be filled :-)
12-13-2012, 10:08 PM   #14
Pentaxian
Miguel's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Near Seattle
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,736
QuoteOriginally posted by bengibollen Quote
But if the browser assumes sRGB if color info is missing, the images should look the same as the original wich has sRGB embedded? This is what I'm not getting.
First, what application are you using to view and evaluate the "original?" Without a calibrated profile your default is more or less arbitrary.

If using Firefox, to what degree did you enable color management? It is more than activating a single gfx setting in about:config. This discusses the gfx.color management.display and the implications.

Gfx.color management.display profile - MozillaZine Knowledge Base

There is also an add-on that may solve your problems. This stuff is not intuitive nor easy for most mortals. Until it gets as easy as say cropping an image, I'd say that digital photography is still fairly immature as a process.


M
12-18-2012, 03:35 PM   #15
Pentaxian
emalvick's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Davis, CA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,615
With a wide gamut monitor calibration is essential. With a wide gamut monitor, you have to realize that images in non-color managed applications may not look right, but that isn't necessarily because they are bad. This can be especially an issue with browsers unless you ascertain that your browser is color managed and set to be.

As others have stated, you have to save your photos with an sRGB profile to ensure the most compatibility with people outside your environment. However, that profile will look bright and oversaturated in your own environment if your apps are not color managed. An example I had was a nice image I had done of a post-sunset coastal scene. The image was developed in LR and saved with sRGB. I then went to set the image as my desktop wallpaper background in Windows, but instead of having a nice image with lots of blues and purples, my background consisted of a lot of green and turqouise colors that were not what I saw in LR or Photoshop.

I'm not sure the problem was so much Windows Explorer not being color managed but rather that for viewing on my own monitor I needed to save the image with the profile for my own monitor, which was not sRGB. However, I almost guarantee that image will not work on any other computer unless someone just happens to have the same monitor and perhaps a relatively similar profile.

Enough of that, though... As someone mentioned earlier, one of the most important aspects of color management is actually the brightness. I found that I was much more disturbed by what I saw on other computers and prints related to the brightness issues on my own monitor let alone the fact that most monitors are overly bright. Thus, make sure you can do your best and have the ability to get the luminance where it needs to be when you calibrate.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
application, camera, colourful, download, export, photo, photography, photoshop, picasa, time, view, web
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anybody with mirror problems with K30? Focus problems. simbon4o Pentax K-30 & K-50 14 08-28-2013 10:39 PM
Any freezing problems with K30?(like those with K5) or any other problems? simbon4o Pentax K-30 & K-50 21 01-03-2013 01:54 PM
Hidden folders with LR4.1 civiletti Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 3 07-20-2012 02:48 PM
K5 and Lightroom - colour problems? Free Soul Pentax K-5 17 01-11-2012 12:31 AM
Lightroom to Photoshop - Colour space problems Mikeru Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 4 03-08-2009 10:11 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:53 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top