lightroom changes ?!

DeadJohn · 01-22-2013, 08:58 PM

Fyi, Corel Aftershot sort of does the same thing sometimes, briefly showing a rough preview while sharpness and other effects are applied.

paranoia23 · 01-23-2013, 05:50 AM

why do i need a pentax profile ?! the lightroom version is always an improvement ... to me

Anvh · 01-23-2013, 07:12 AM

Colours but there is a Pentax profile though but just 1.

Sagitta · 01-23-2013, 07:25 AM

Its the JPG preview being replaced by the actual RAW data.

Shoot a bunch of monochrome or filtered images in RAW+JPG and you'll see the funky JPG camera-induced filters get replaced by the basic RAW data pre-filtering, and if they're loaded side by side you'll notice this right off since the RAW file will be sitting besides the JPG in the listing.
EDIT:

Last edited by Sagitta; 01-23-2013 at 07:39 AM.

amoringello · 01-23-2013, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by paranoia23

why do i need a pentax profile ?! the lightroom version is always an improvement ... to me

Because a good profile can "improve"* the image more?

You can use devices to get a better profile for your particular camera (not all cameras, even by the same brand/model, are identical) and particular lighting environment.

For 99.99% of photographers, the built-in profiles are just fine. One might argue that 99% of people can't see color well enough to know better anyway. (see FM 100 Hue Test)

* Additionally, the word "improve" is potentially quite a subjective term as well. A lot of photos need to be warmed up or cooled down, or have contrast added, etc... to give a desired effect, so your "perfect" profile is pretty much out the window.

If the Lightroom camera profile is close enough for your work, then I wouldn't get all hung up with trying to "make it perfect". As long as you stay consistent with one profile, you should be fine.

paranoia23 · 01-24-2013, 04:02 AM

i think i misunderstood what u meant ... thought i wanted to say that the raw conversion is worse and would need a profile to get closer what is produced by the jpg engine of the camera.

thanks for the link with the test .. interesting .. i got 74 ... but this test measures my screen more then my eyes

Anvh · 01-24-2013, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by paranoia23

thought i wanted to say that the raw conversion is worse and would need a profile to get closer what is produced by the jpg engine of the camera.

Later part is actually true but if it's better depends.

emalvick · 01-25-2013, 05:05 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by paranoia23

why do i need a pentax profile ?! the lightroom version is always an improvement ... to me

You may not need it, but some others might.

If what you see on the LCD when you take a photo is what you like, then you'd probably want a profile to get you close to that image to start with. On the otherhand a profile could be used to further improve what the LR version initially shows.

In my workflow, the generic LR version is usually better than the image embedded in my photo by the camera; my camera's jpg is set to capture the most dynamic range possible, which means a flat contrast. That helps me know what is in my RAW file. However, the generic LR version still goes through a lot of changes in my workflow. A profile could be used to minimize the amount of developing by getting your image closer to your "typical" end point. Obviously it can't be perfect, but it can be a start. A profile is mostly best to tweak the colors so that the are closer to what you might expect (if you are adjusting colors a lot anyway).

paranoia23 · 01-27-2013, 12:40 AM

the idea with the flat jpg is good ... but unfortunately i do alot of family pictures and my wifes is using the jpgs :\

DanWeso · 01-27-2013, 06:27 AM - **1 Like**

I think this video explains what is happening.

Why Does the Photograph?s Preview Change in Lightroom and Bridge? | The Complete Picture with Julieanne Kost | Adobe TV

emalvick · 01-29-2013, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by paranoia23

the idea with the flat jpg is good ... but unfortunately i do alot of family pictures and my wifes is using the jpgs :\

Yes... you can only get away with it if you aren't really shooting the jpgs for any purpose. If you save a custom JPG preset for flat and then have one for not so flat, you can change when appropriate. I'm not sure if that is entirely possible, although it may be through the USER settings in some of the newer Pentax cameras. My own luck, I'd forget to change the settings, but many people are better than I am. My reliance on RAW makes me more careless about the in camera settings such as white balance, contrast, etc.

As it is, if one gets to a nice result quickly using a preset or profile in lightroom, they can just quickly export JPGs on import for family members who don't care much. That's why I mostly do anyway. Adjusting basic photos from family gatherings is wasted time since my family has no appreciation of what RAW files can do and the results I can get. They like snapshots.

Anvh · 01-29-2013, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by paranoia23

the idea with the flat jpg is good ... but unfortunately i do alot of family pictures and my wifes is using the jpgs :\

The compressed DNG format that looks like JPEG actually adapt his colourprofile so that it can capture a wider range when needed or a shorter range for more precision. It also has WB baked in so you can change it like with RAW.

I'm curious to see the first Pentax with this format.

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01-22-2013, 08:58 PM	#16
DeadJohn Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York Posts: 4,833	Fyi, Corel Aftershot sort of does the same thing sometimes, briefly showing a rough preview while sharpness and other effects are applied.

01-23-2013, 05:50 AM	#17
paranoia23 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 188 Original Poster	why do i need a pentax profile ?! the lightroom version is always an improvement ... to me

01-23-2013, 07:12 AM	#18
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Colours but there is a Pentax profile though but just 1.

01-23-2013, 07:25 AM	#19
Sagitta Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,081	Its the JPG preview being replaced by the actual RAW data. Shoot a bunch of monochrome or filtered images in RAW+JPG and you'll see the funky JPG camera-induced filters get replaced by the basic RAW data pre-filtering, and if they're loaded side by side you'll notice this right off since the RAW file will be sitting besides the JPG in the listing. EDIT: Last edited by Sagitta; 01-23-2013 at 07:39 AM.

01-23-2013, 02:15 PM	#20
amoringello Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,562	Originally posted by paranoia23 why do i need a pentax profile ?! the lightroom version is always an improvement ... to me Because a good profile can "improve"* the image more? You can use devices to get a better profile for your particular camera (not all cameras, even by the same brand/model, are identical) and particular lighting environment. For 99.99% of photographers, the built-in profiles are just fine. One might argue that 99% of people can't see color well enough to know better anyway. (see FM 100 Hue Test) * Additionally, the word "improve" is potentially quite a subjective term as well. A lot of photos need to be warmed up or cooled down, or have contrast added, etc... to give a desired effect, so your "perfect" profile is pretty much out the window. If the Lightroom camera profile is close enough for your work, then I wouldn't get all hung up with trying to "make it perfect". As long as you stay consistent with one profile, you should be fine.

01-24-2013, 04:02 AM	#21
paranoia23 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 188 Original Poster	i think i misunderstood what u meant ... thought i wanted to say that the raw conversion is worse and would need a profile to get closer what is produced by the jpg engine of the camera. thanks for the link with the test .. interesting .. i got 74 ... but this test measures my screen more then my eyes

01-24-2013, 09:02 AM	#22
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by paranoia23 thought i wanted to say that the raw conversion is worse and would need a profile to get closer what is produced by the jpg engine of the camera. Later part is actually true but if it's better depends.

01-25-2013, 05:05 PM - 1 Like	#23
emalvick Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Davis, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,642	Originally posted by paranoia23 why do i need a pentax profile ?! the lightroom version is always an improvement ... to me You may not need it, but some others might. If what you see on the LCD when you take a photo is what you like, then you'd probably want a profile to get you close to that image to start with. On the otherhand a profile could be used to further improve what the LR version initially shows. In my workflow, the generic LR version is usually better than the image embedded in my photo by the camera; my camera's jpg is set to capture the most dynamic range possible, which means a flat contrast. That helps me know what is in my RAW file. However, the generic LR version still goes through a lot of changes in my workflow. A profile could be used to minimize the amount of developing by getting your image closer to your "typical" end point. Obviously it can't be perfect, but it can be a start. A profile is mostly best to tweak the colors so that the are closer to what you might expect (if you are adjusting colors a lot anyway).

01-27-2013, 12:40 AM	#24
paranoia23 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 188 Original Poster	the idea with the flat jpg is good ... but unfortunately i do alot of family pictures and my wifes is using the jpgs :\

01-27-2013, 06:27 AM - 1 Like	#25
DanWeso Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Buffalo, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 191	I think this video explains what is happening. Why Does the Photograph?s Preview Change in Lightroom and Bridge? \| The Complete Picture with Julieanne Kost \| Adobe TV

01-29-2013, 02:57 PM	#26
emalvick Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Davis, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,642	Originally posted by paranoia23 the idea with the flat jpg is good ... but unfortunately i do alot of family pictures and my wifes is using the jpgs :\ Yes... you can only get away with it if you aren't really shooting the jpgs for any purpose. If you save a custom JPG preset for flat and then have one for not so flat, you can change when appropriate. I'm not sure if that is entirely possible, although it may be through the USER settings in some of the newer Pentax cameras. My own luck, I'd forget to change the settings, but many people are better than I am. My reliance on RAW makes me more careless about the in camera settings such as white balance, contrast, etc. As it is, if one gets to a nice result quickly using a preset or profile in lightroom, they can just quickly export JPGs on import for family members who don't care much. That's why I mostly do anyway. Adjusting basic photos from family gatherings is wasted time since my family has no appreciation of what RAW files can do and the results I can get. They like snapshots.

01-29-2013, 03:13 PM	#27
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by paranoia23 the idea with the flat jpg is good ... but unfortunately i do alot of family pictures and my wifes is using the jpgs :\ The compressed DNG format that looks like JPEG actually adapt his colourprofile so that it can capture a wider range when needed or a shorter range for more precision. It also has WB baked in so you can change it like with RAW. I'm curious to see the first Pentax with this format.