lightroom changes ?!

paranoia23 · 01-12-2013, 05:55 AM

to make it short ... when i load an dng into lightroom the image is changing after about 3 seconds before its in its final form on my screen... what is this last change (image is getting darker and much more importent better then what i see for the first 3 seconds when i load a new image) ?!

thanks for the help

TenZ.NL · 01-12-2013, 06:13 AM

Someone told me that is a fast jpg-preview before the final image is completely loaded. Not sure if that`s entirely correct but it sounds plausible.

paranoia23 · 01-12-2013, 06:21 AM

but the image is switching shortly before it reaches its final stage ?!

TenZ.NL · 01-12-2013, 06:45 AM

That`s what I said, it loads a fast preview and then changes the image when LR completes the reading of the RAWdata. I don`t know, maybe LR applies a different processing profile then the camera (ACR 4.4, Adobe standard or whatever your setting is)

amoringello · 01-12-2013, 06:49 AM - **1 Like**

What do you mean by "the image is switching shortly before it reaches its final stage"?

Lightroom will sometimes display a very low-res JPG version, this might even be squashed and distorted while it is busy loading other images and trying to render the full sized JPRG, which it may or may not do before it renders a preview of the RAW image..... when all is done, a better quality preview of the RAW image may be done -- depending on your LR settings.
When the RAW previews are generated, you'll usually notice a color and brightness change compared to the JPG preview.
Of course if you are viewing the image full size, LightRoom might again do some more processing to render the final image.

And people wonder why LightRoom is so slow... they could really optimize this process!!

paranoia23 · 01-12-2013, 07:45 AM

what i mean is the preview of the raw file you see on the screen .... just before the loading process is finished it changes its appearence in the last milisecond during the loading phase ... its gettin a little bit darker and the colors look better.

Anvh · 01-12-2013, 07:54 AM - **1 Like**

There is a JPEG preview inside the RAW file, that is displayed so not the "actual" RAW data but a small JPEG the camera has created and embeded in the RAW.
Lightroom creates an image based on the RAW data a bit later, that's most likely the change you see.

amoringello · 01-12-2013, 08:02 AM

Originally posted by paranoia23

what i mean is the preview of the raw file you see on the screen .... just before the loading process is finished it changes its appearence in the last milisecond during the loading phase ... its gettin a little bit darker and the colors look better.

Usually the color of the RAW image looks worse, as the JPEG processing will boost color and contrast. But that all does depend on your camera settings.

Regardless, that is how Lightroom works. It is expected behavior.

paranoia23 · 01-12-2013, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by Anvh

There is a JPEG preview inside the RAW file, that is displayed so not the "actual" RAW data but a small JPEG the camera has created and embeded in the RAW.
Lightroom creates an image based on the RAW data a bit later, that's most likely the change you see.

the change from the internal preview to a preview lightroom does from the RAW sounds good to me ... thanks !!

Anvh · 01-12-2013, 09:21 AM

Everyone before me was saying that as well btw so dont just thank me

reeftool · 01-15-2013, 10:24 AM

Lightroom applies some default adjustments to every shot. If you go down to the Camera Calibration adjustments, you will find Adobe Standard and Embedded and if you switch between the 2, will will notice the difference. Lightroom defaults to the Adobe Standard setting.

paranoia23 · 01-17-2013, 02:56 AM

checked .. thats not it so it must be the switch from the embedded jpg to a preview lightroom develops.
when i change from adobe to embedded the difference is marginal and just visible at some colors (at my test picture it was orange)

the change from embedded to developed is much more drastic and visible in all areas of the picture

amoringello · 01-17-2013, 03:21 AM

(edit) Sorry... mis-read your last post. Still some of what I original wrote might apply if you want to double check what is going on.

Get another RAW processing software and compare the results. Pentax includes one with the camera. Google should be abel to point you to a few free ones or trial versions of other products.
I suspect you'll find the differences comparable (FYI, everyone processes RAW slightly differently, so you may see even more differences)

Not all will show the JPG preview, so you may need to go an extra step to pull that out and view separately. But it can be done.

paranoia23 · 01-17-2013, 04:10 AM

are you not experience a change in the image during the load period in LR ?!

emalvick · 01-22-2013, 03:35 PM

I would be fairly certain it is the internal jpg being replaced by LR's interpretation of the RAW. I don't think this effect shows up often in other software because other software may not ever bring in that embedded preview while LR does albeit for a split second.

The amount that change shows up may depend on the camera's setting. With LR3, I almost never noticed it, but with LR4, I'm noticing it more often, and it is mostly because I unknowingly screwed up the camera settings for JPG's the last time I was out shooting. It actually isn't a big deal when you shoot RAW, but it did make the adjustment from embedded preview to the LR version dramatic. It also maybe some adjustments to LR's default profiles. With LR3, I think a user here had posted a Pentax profile that was close to what the camera output for JPG's. LR4 has no Pentax profile, and I haven't tried to find a custom one, and I am guessing you don't have one either.

Ultimately, the most important thing is that you can get to a final image you like and not so much where it starts, unless you really like where your images are starting. In that case, you probably need to look into the Pentax software or try to create a preset develop setting that you can apply to all images on import that gets you close to what you like.

01-12-2013, 05:55 AM	#1
paranoia23 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 188	lightroom changes ?! to make it short ... when i load an dng into lightroom the image is changing after about 3 seconds before its in its final form on my screen... what is this last change (image is getting darker and much more importent better then what i see for the first 3 seconds when i load a new image) ?! thanks for the help

01-17-2013, 03:21 AM	#13
amoringello Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,562	(edit) Sorry... mis-read your last post. Still some of what I original wrote might apply if you want to double check what is going on. Get another RAW processing software and compare the results. Pentax includes one with the camera. Google should be abel to point you to a few free ones or trial versions of other products. I suspect you'll find the differences comparable (FYI, everyone processes RAW slightly differently, so you may see even more differences) Not all will show the JPG preview, so you may need to go an extra step to pull that out and view separately. But it can be done. Last edited by amoringello; 01-17-2013 at 03:33 AM.

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01-12-2013, 06:13 AM	#2
TenZ.NL Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Below sealevel Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,100	Someone told me that is a fast jpg-preview before the final image is completely loaded. Not sure if that`s entirely correct but it sounds plausible.

01-12-2013, 06:21 AM	#3
paranoia23 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 188 Original Poster	but the image is switching shortly before it reaches its final stage ?!

01-12-2013, 06:45 AM	#4
TenZ.NL Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Below sealevel Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,100	That`s what I said, it loads a fast preview and then changes the image when LR completes the reading of the RAWdata. I don`t know, maybe LR applies a different processing profile then the camera (ACR 4.4, Adobe standard or whatever your setting is)

01-12-2013, 06:49 AM - 1 Like	#5
amoringello Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,562	What do you mean by "the image is switching shortly before it reaches its final stage"? Lightroom will sometimes display a very low-res JPG version, this might even be squashed and distorted while it is busy loading other images and trying to render the full sized JPRG, which it may or may not do before it renders a preview of the RAW image..... when all is done, a better quality preview of the RAW image may be done -- depending on your LR settings. When the RAW previews are generated, you'll usually notice a color and brightness change compared to the JPG preview. Of course if you are viewing the image full size, LightRoom might again do some more processing to render the final image. And people wonder why LightRoom is so slow... they could really optimize this process!!

01-12-2013, 07:45 AM	#6
paranoia23 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 188 Original Poster	what i mean is the preview of the raw file you see on the screen .... just before the loading process is finished it changes its appearence in the last milisecond during the loading phase ... its gettin a little bit darker and the colors look better.

01-12-2013, 07:54 AM - 1 Like	#7
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	There is a JPEG preview inside the RAW file, that is displayed so not the "actual" RAW data but a small JPEG the camera has created and embeded in the RAW. Lightroom creates an image based on the RAW data a bit later, that's most likely the change you see.

01-12-2013, 08:02 AM	#8
amoringello Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,562	Originally posted by paranoia23 what i mean is the preview of the raw file you see on the screen .... just before the loading process is finished it changes its appearence in the last milisecond during the loading phase ... its gettin a little bit darker and the colors look better. Usually the color of the RAW image looks worse, as the JPEG processing will boost color and contrast. But that all does depend on your camera settings. Regardless, that is how Lightroom works. It is expected behavior.

01-12-2013, 09:05 AM	#9
paranoia23 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 188 Original Poster	Originally posted by Anvh There is a JPEG preview inside the RAW file, that is displayed so not the "actual" RAW data but a small JPEG the camera has created and embeded in the RAW. Lightroom creates an image based on the RAW data a bit later, that's most likely the change you see. the change from the internal preview to a preview lightroom does from the RAW sounds good to me ... thanks !!

01-12-2013, 09:21 AM	#10
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Everyone before me was saying that as well btw so dont just thank me

01-15-2013, 10:24 AM	#11
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,554	Lightroom applies some default adjustments to every shot. If you go down to the Camera Calibration adjustments, you will find Adobe Standard and Embedded and if you switch between the 2, will will notice the difference. Lightroom defaults to the Adobe Standard setting.

01-17-2013, 02:56 AM	#12
paranoia23 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 188 Original Poster	checked .. thats not it so it must be the switch from the embedded jpg to a preview lightroom develops. when i change from adobe to embedded the difference is marginal and just visible at some colors (at my test picture it was orange) the change from embedded to developed is much more drastic and visible in all areas of the picture

01-17-2013, 04:10 AM	#14
paranoia23 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 188 Original Poster	are you not experience a change in the image during the load period in LR ?!

01-22-2013, 03:35 PM	#15
emalvick Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Davis, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,642	I would be fairly certain it is the internal jpg being replaced by LR's interpretation of the RAW. I don't think this effect shows up often in other software because other software may not ever bring in that embedded preview while LR does albeit for a split second. The amount that change shows up may depend on the camera's setting. With LR3, I almost never noticed it, but with LR4, I'm noticing it more often, and it is mostly because I unknowingly screwed up the camera settings for JPG's the last time I was out shooting. It actually isn't a big deal when you shoot RAW, but it did make the adjustment from embedded preview to the LR version dramatic. It also maybe some adjustments to LR's default profiles. With LR3, I think a user here had posted a Pentax profile that was close to what the camera output for JPG's. LR4 has no Pentax profile, and I haven't tried to find a custom one, and I am guessing you don't have one either. Ultimately, the most important thing is that you can get to a final image you like and not so much where it starts, unless you really like where your images are starting. In that case, you probably need to look into the Pentax software or try to create a preset develop setting that you can apply to all images on import that gets you close to what you like.