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05-06-2013, 02:53 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Yes, but until the full specifications are out (and we've read ALL the mice type in the contract) we'll not know for certain. However, when I buy a stand alone copy I know that my work is on my hard drive. It's not just a subscription based activation its ongoing cost for using the program and my bet is that there will be a mandatory upgrade after a certain date with additional cost.
That's what "subscription" means -- you have to keep paying. But that has nothing to do with the cloud in particular. All of these questions are already addressed in their FAQ that is already up. This isn't *new* -- their Creative Cloud has been around for some time and you can already sign up for it. What's new is that there will be no more CS versions -- the existing CS6 is it. I'll probably get the CS6 upgrade under the current system since it costs less than 1 year of the CC service (for a single app) and will probably last me 2-3 years before I'm wanting more. And then I'll see what is available...

05-06-2013, 03:09 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
the full specifications are out (and we've read ALL the mice type in the contract) we'll not know for certain
This Creative Cloud product has been out many months, so there is a lot of certainty and known facts. I wouldn't be surprised if within three years Adobe will make it fairly difficult to use CS6 (the last non-sub product), but there are competing products. If I was a competitor, I would be developing an Adobe transition kit right now that can import Lightroom and ACR catalog data and replicate their functionalities without much hassle. If I was Adobe, I'd offer a buck-a-month rental for Lightroom 5.x for a year as a come-on.

As with vonBaloney, I'm not happy about the subscription model, but "cloud computing" is highly secure and very well proven. Many--if not most--corporations use software-as-a-service Internet-based applications that generates highly sensitive and proprietary data, which is stored on the cloud of the customer's choice. Just not much of an issue anymore to a few hundred million.

While there have been a few high visibility security issues with some cloud-based services, I don't know how dire the results have been. I would like see a comparison between cloud-based data-loss "disasters" vs. home-based user-caused ones. With home-based data storage, I wonder how frequently:
a. the user will mistakenly delete key data
b. the user's spouse will mistakenly or willingly delete key data
c. the user's offspring will mistakenly or willingly delete key data
d. the user's offspring's friends will mistakenly or willing delete key data
e. an intruder or thief will disappear key data
f. a physical event will disappear key data

M
05-06-2013, 03:22 PM - 1 Like   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Miguel Quote

<SNIP>

but "cloud computing" is highly secure and very well proven. Many--if not most--corporations use software-as-a-service Internet-based applications that generates highly sensitive and proprietary data, which is stored on the cloud of the customer's choice. Just not much of an issue anymore to a few hundred million.

<SNIP>
Allow me to humbly and respectfully suggest, that your assertions in what I have quoted above are incorrect.

There is no proof that "cloud computing is highly secure" (but, plenty of evidence to the contrary) -- and entire branches on industry are either by regulations or "best practice" / duty-of-dilligence prohibited from relying on such. The number of breaches among what you can consider "professional cloud providers" is astonishing - of course, they're making considerable efforts at keeping the lid on those, to keep up the illusion of "highly secure".

As to "highly sensitive and proprietary data"....we must not have the same interpretation of that phrase, but if you are in the US (I'm not), then I guess that the DOE/DOD and HIPAA would have a thing or two to say on that account....

I'm working, in part, within this cloud-space -- and my utter distrust is based on the horrible things I've seen happen, and the efforts with which they've been kept under wraps....
05-06-2013, 03:26 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by tclausen Quote
I'm working, in part, within this cloud-space -- and my utter distrust is based on the horrible things I've seen happen, and the efforts with which they've been kept under wraps....
I speak from experience as well. What can I say. . .if you want to claim yours is bigger than mine, be my guest.

M

05-06-2013, 04:01 PM   #20
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I am usually vehemently opposed to cloud-based models, especially "always on DRM" BS (I refuse to buy any such product, even if I really want it), but if you read the details on Creative Cloud, it is not really cloud-based for the most part, unless you explicitly choose to store your files on their servers. As per Adobe's FAQ:

- Programs and files are stored and executed locally on your computer
- The program will ask to check the internet every 30 days (and when installing any software of course)
- If you temporarily do not have an internet connection, it will continue to allow you to use the software up to 180 days after the last internet check
- Program upgrades are manual, so if for some reason you think a new version they have sucks, you can stick with the old version

Of course I'm still rather peeved about not actually owning software, and being required to pay forever to use it... but at least for me right now, being a student, the math really does end up in favor for CC ($20 per month for the first year, $30 a month after that), as compared buying CS6 suites (and be stuck with CS6 forever)

Last edited by Cannikin; 05-06-2013 at 04:12 PM.
05-06-2013, 04:10 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Miguel Quote
I speak from experience as well. What can I say. . .if you want to claim yours is bigger than mine, be my guest.

M
Oh, go ahead and put all your eggs (& trust) wherever you want, it won't ruin my day either way.

We all do what we're comfortable with, and I've seen far too many "cloud security" breaches than I'm comfortable with....from "cloud providers" otherwise claiming DOD and HIPAA compliance.
05-06-2013, 04:19 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
Of course I'm still rather peeved about not actually owning software, and being required to pay forever to use it... but at least for me right now, being a student, the math really does end up in favor for CC ($20 per month for the first year, $30 a month after that), as compared buying CS6 suites (and be stuck with CS6 forever)
The problem comes when you want to quit -- it must be assured that you will still have access to your own work in 2, 5, 10, 20 years...

05-06-2013, 04:28 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
The problem comes when you want to quit -- it must be assured that you will still have access to your own work in 2, 5, 10, 20 years...
Don't worry, you will -- as long, of course, that in 2, 5, 10, 20 years both (i) the company stays in business, (ii) they still see a financial benefit in supporting the proprietary file formats, in which you store your pictures today, and (iii) you keep coughing up whatever fee they feel they need to ask to stay profitable....and you will, if you care about your work, 'cus they'll have patented the hell out of something of their proprietary formats so that nobody else will be able to write software properly opening the files.
05-07-2013, 05:30 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Adobe discusses their plans for Lightroom and the cloud. Looks like Lightroom 5 will still be available stand-alone:

Lightroom and the Creative Cloud

LR is all that I really use from Adobe, so it sounds like business as usual for me.
Thank you for quoting this. I had been looking around to see what the deal with LR was, and I'm SO glad to see it'll still be available standalone. LR is the only product I use and it drastically efficient-izes my workflow.
05-07-2013, 06:01 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
I am usually vehemently opposed to cloud-based models, especially "always on DRM" BS (I refuse to buy any such product, even if I really want it), but if you read the details on Creative Cloud, it is not really cloud-based for the most part, unless you explicitly choose to store your files on their servers. As per Adobe's FAQ:

- Programs and files are stored and executed locally on your computer
- The program will ask to check the internet every 30 days (and when installing any software of course)
- If you temporarily do not have an internet connection, it will continue to allow you to use the software up to 180 days after the last internet check
- Program upgrades are manual, so if for some reason you think a new version they have sucks, you can stick with the old version

Of course I'm still rather peeved about not actually owning software, and being required to pay forever to use it... but at least for me right now, being a student, the math really does end up in favor for CC ($20 per month for the first year, $30 a month after that), as compared buying CS6 suites (and be stuck with CS6 forever)
A good quote, basically per word from the Adobe site, but...

Unfortunately do not believe Adobe for their word, because it is highly inaccurate.

For instance item number three from your quote; again one hundred percent accurate as written from the Adobe site, but... Notice the up to 180 days... I've seen numerous cases where it isn't even half of that; many more where it isn't much more than five to six weeks.

So imagine having to be one of the many millions of people in america in places like West Virginia, Iowa, the Dakota's, Idaho, etc... Where one regularly does not have connection to high speed internet?
05-07-2013, 06:43 AM   #26
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I'm going to continue using Lightroom since you can still buy it without paying a hefty monthly subscription. The rest of the Adobe suite is out of the question for an occasional user like me. Does anyone know of alternative software that can mimic the basics of Elements? Usually the only reason I leave Lightroom is for layers.
05-07-2013, 07:03 AM - 1 Like   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sol Invictus Quote
I'm going to continue using Lightroom since you can still buy it without paying a hefty monthly subscription. The rest of the Adobe suite is out of the question for an occasional user like me. Does anyone know of alternative software that can mimic the basics of Elements? Usually the only reason I leave Lightroom is for layers.
Gimp is the best known free photoeditor with layers.

Personally I use PSP X4 from Corel, which I like alot. Much better than elements

But Also Topaz and Onone have plug ins for layers (do not know how well they work though)

and if you look have time to wait, during the holiday season Topaz and Corel most of the times have some nice deals with good discounts for their products.
05-07-2013, 07:09 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
I am usually vehemently opposed to cloud-based models, especially "always on DRM" BS (I refuse to buy any such product, even if I really want it), but if you read the details on Creative Cloud, it is not really cloud-based for the most part, unless you explicitly choose to store your files on their servers. As per Adobe's FAQ:

- Programs and files are stored and executed locally on your computer
- The program will ask to check the internet every 30 days (and when installing any software of course)
- If you temporarily do not have an internet connection, it will continue to allow you to use the software up to 180 days after the last internet check
- Program upgrades are manual, so if for some reason you think a new version they have sucks, you can stick with the old version

Of course I'm still rather peeved about not actually owning software, and being required to pay forever to use it... but at least for me right now, being a student, the math really does end up in favor for CC ($20 per month for the first year, $30 a month after that), as compared buying CS6 suites (and be stuck with CS6 forever)
http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/buying-guide.html

Better look at that pricing structure again. Looks like it might be going up if you're not a teacher or a student or a previous owner of the suite. It's cheaper than buying the whole suite, yes, but it's not that inexpensive a proposition for a lot of people. $30-50 a month? Over the course of a year that's a lot of money. Possibly $600 a year isn't all that affordable for a lot of people who aren't members of design teams and who aren't getting it paid for. An upgrade for Photoshop usually costs what $149-200? Do most people actually use the whole suite? Probably not, so those people will actually end up paying a lot more at even $30 a month just to keep upgrading Photoshop most likely. Okay, they will get more but will they actually use all those programs they're paying for?

Even if I didn't loathe the cloud computing, forced subscriptions, constant re-activations et all that would price me right out of being able to use the CC suite anyway. I don't have an extra $300-600 a year for that. I did manage to scrape up the $149 for an upgrade two times out of 3 when I wasn't getting it gratis from a pal at Adobe. But with this model I surely won't be getting it free every 2nd or 3rd upgrade and I won't be able to afford to keep it up past CS6 now anyway. I'll just have to keep using what I have got no matter how many nifty new things they add to it. $600 is almost a month's rent for me. It's a vet or doctor's bill I might have to pay. That's way more money than I can afford to burn every year to keep my graphics suite up to date.

I guess I should be grateful I have what I do. But I'm actually a tad ticked that they are going this route. With the regular $149 upgrades I could afford to at least keep Photoshop and Illustrator up to date by buying a new upgrade for one or the other every other year when I felt I needed to. With this model I'll definitely be using CS6 for as long as I can find a computer to run it. For as long as Adobe will activate it anyway. I do have the CS2 sans activation now as a backup too, but if they just drop support and activation for CS6 and don't do what they did for that, release new codes for it that don't need to be activated I will eventually be forced to go with only CS2 I suppose and that would kind of suck since I do have the full suite for CS6 now. These past few years the activation bit for it all has gotten to be very annoying. This just adds insult to injury in so far as I am concerned. I've always been a huge Adobe fan, and even though I have tried other graphics applications including GIMP I've always stuck with Photoshop et all. This whole thing, it's got me really rethinking that stance.
05-07-2013, 07:33 AM   #29
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I'm confused. CS being a bundle of programs, does this mean that individual programs will still be available for traditional purchase outside of the "Suite"?
05-07-2013, 07:34 AM   #30
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I knew it was going to come to this, I didn't think it would happen so soon.

As a creative professional, I've been using the Creative Cloud suite for just under a year now, and am pretty happy with it. It gives me access to all the software I need at an affordable cost for my business.... but I don't see how this is an economical route for a hobbyist. I certainly wouldn't be using it.

Currently the offering is the entire CS suite for $50, but not everyone needs all that software. I'd like to see bundles, ie: "photography bundle" with PS/LR for $15. I think the subscription for PS alone is around $20, but considering the cost of the entire suite, I think this should be lowered. Still.... creative professionals is one thing, I just don't see this business model working with hobbyists.

I've seen Adobe go back on their word before. Remember the upgrade policy? If you don't like it, TELL THEM!
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