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05-13-2013, 08:12 AM   #1
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Trouble with the auto-panorama feature in Photoshop CS6

Hey guys,

So, a few weeks ago I had a go at shooting a panorama (4 shots stitched together) because the scene made me want more in a single photo than even a 10mm lens could provide - and I couldn't believe how well it worked when I got it into P'shop. With basically zero effort I had a perfectly printable, actually a very GOOD photo.
So I tried it a few more times, except I didn't want to "waste" shots/time (you have to move kind of quickly if the clouds are moving and it's still darkish) - so I didn't overlap the shots quite as much, but I DID overlap them a bit.
To my surprise, Photoshop keeps telling me that the layers cannot be aligned. When I try to do it manually, I see what it means - it seems that the edges of the photo (say, 20% of the way into the right of one photo, and 20% of the way into the left of the next one along) get a kind of perspective error thing, and one ends up too small or something and even though there is technically an overlap of subject matter, there isn't enough for Photoshop to make a stitch.
If this isn't making sense then you probably can't answer my question anyway but hopefully some of you are thinking "Yep, been there."

I was wondering if
A) this is indeed that I am not overlapping them enough, so to fix it I'll just use plenty of overlap, right?
B) there is anything that can be done about it for these particular photos that PS has told me can't be aligned?

Thanks,
Quazi.

05-13-2013, 08:23 AM   #2
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There is no requirement overlapping pictures must match. Overlap them as you wish in photoshop and make the overlap obvious! For an extreme example see the photographs/collages by Davis Hockney one of the greatest living painters.
05-13-2013, 08:29 AM   #3
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Um, yes, but I'm not going for a collage effect - I am going for ONE superwide photo effect...
05-13-2013, 08:37 AM   #4
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I don't do this--but presumably if you do a perspective adjustment to each image then they will have a proper overlap--but that will take careful work to make them close enough.

05-13-2013, 08:42 AM   #5
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And BTW if you don't have sufficient overlap now, after the perspective adjust they may have areas w/o overlap. (Maybe that's why the program gives you that message. I don't know the details of what transform's PS does to achieve the matching/overlap.)
05-13-2013, 08:49 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quazimoto Quote
I was wondering if
A) this is indeed that I am not overlapping them enough, so to fix it I'll just use plenty of overlap, right?
B) there is anything that can be done about it for these particular photos that PS has told me can't be aligned?
Hey Quazi,

Here is what I think (based on... uh... 15 years of stitching digital images together (wow)):

A) Photoshop's Photomerge function is very good, but still rather primitive. It only matches details as seen in the lens distorted images you feed it, and even if you select "correct for distortion," there are limits to it's effectiveness. In essence, it will try to "undistort" the image to the best of its abilities, then look for matching details in the overlapping regions. If you use a wide-angle or fisheye lens, it will sometimes give up even if the amount of overlap is good (10-25% is fine, but even 5% is useable), because the Photoshop "distortion corrected" images may include a prominent detail at the extreme edge of one image, which has it's match in the less-distorted interior of the adjacent image. They won't be "undistorted" to the same degree and still won't match up. Without being fully corrected or calculated for, the algorithm gets confused, since that detail object (seen as a group of similar pixels) could still be twice as wide or really curved compared to how the other image captured it.

B) So, it isn't necessarily the overlap %, but the lens you are using. Solution? Don't switch to a less-distorted lens, just use a (free) dedicated panorama-sticher like Hugin and it will detect your lens by EXIF and use its own internal lens corrections (which are applied to feature matching as variables, not by trying to "undistort" the image and hoping they match), which will almost always stitch something that Photoshop cannot. You might just reserve this tool for those "tough problems" and it will be fine for that. I've stitched images from tilted, circular fisheye lenses with less than 5% overlap using Hugin, so you should be fine!


Last edited by panoguy; 05-13-2013 at 09:06 AM.
05-13-2013, 09:14 AM   #7
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You can try Autopabno, i found it Superior over photoshop.
It can also do HDR pano's

05-13-2013, 08:40 PM   #8
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Oh right, thanks very much.
I guess I figured Photoshop would detect the lens from EXIF anyway - although, I think this may be a problem because it's a Sigma 10-20mm f3.5 and GUESS WHAT lens the EXIF data always thinks that is... A Sigma 70-200mm f2.8 EX HSM. Hmmm. It literally says that under "lens used", but then in "focal length" it'll say "14mm" or whatever I took the shot at. Clap, clap.

Anyway, can either Autopabno or Hugin do RAW? I guess I have to do my colour etc. in RAW and export to JPEG and then open in Hugin/Autopabno?
05-14-2013, 02:41 AM   #9
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Autopano Giga = yes
Autopano Giga - Supported file format in input - Autopano

I tried that once a year ago but it was very slow then, maybe the newer version is faster?
I simply make sure whitebalance is the same in lightroom and there is an export function to 16bit TIFF directly to Autopano.
Then i export to TIFF or Radiance once done.

The program is quite extensive, it can do a one click panorama but you can adjust and enhance it manually a lot.
here are some tutorials http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL556E6EE590A546A9

Last edited by Anvh; 05-14-2013 at 02:55 AM.
05-14-2013, 06:53 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quazimoto Quote
Anyway, can either Autopabno or Hugin do RAW? I guess I have to do my colour etc. in RAW and export to JPEG and then open in Hugin/Autopabno?
Yes, you'll want to handle it that way, since these specialized pano programs are not as good as Adobe Camera Raw for basic file adjustments, although both Hugin and AutopanoPro allow for adjusting WB, vignetting and CA before stitching.

QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
I tried that once a year ago but it was very slow then, maybe the newer version is faster?
IMHO Autopano tends to be pretty slow in general, at least when compared to Hugin or PTGui (or even my ancient Stitcher 2009). Even when it pegs 100% on all 8 cores, it just kinda crawls along. Of course, I think AutopanoPro is great for batch processing (you can point it at a folder of images and just walk away, with panos and HDRs "automagically" found and combined), but not so much if you know what you have and want to see it, pronto.

AutoPano is also $130, and Hugin is free. For that cost of AutopanoPro you do get excellent support, lots more tutorials, and some neat features and a very nice, dark UI. However, if you just want to stitch a problematic image set and not do lots of panos, Hugin may not be as pretty, but it has most of the same features and is faster to boot!

Last edited by panoguy; 05-14-2013 at 07:20 AM.
05-14-2013, 07:09 AM   #11
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Yeah it's not the fastest indeed but it's responsive enough for my needs and i like their workflow and features.

Who can argue against free
05-14-2013, 07:29 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Who can argue against free
Anyone who makes lots of panoramas!

Seriously, though, I have almost every panoramic stitcher that is made for MacOS on my drive. The one I still use the most (for paying, production jobs) is Autodesk Stitcher 2009. It has been discontinued by Autodesk with no replacement, but my license still works and I like the workflow and speed of it. Truly, it sucks for handheld or "problematic" panos, but then I use a very well calibrated panohead for almost all of my work, so I rarely notice. I only dabble in the other stitchers, but AutoPanoPro never really "clicked" for me for some reason, while Hugin (even with it's wonky interface) actually did.

Sadly, I have a moral disagreement with the maker of PTGui (who has stolen most of his ideas and code enhancements from the open source Hugin project, then charges for the upgrades), or otherwise I'd recommend that, too.
05-14-2013, 07:57 AM   #13
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Wow there is a whole subculture of stitch-photographers out there haha.

I'll take all this in and I'll get back to you with results if I remember, thanks everyone!
05-14-2013, 01:46 PM   #14
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It's simply personal preference and there is nothing wrong with that.
It's good to see we both agree on the basics though.

Yeah autodesk was indeed nice, i used that a couple of years ago.
It was i believe pretty automated or you could give some key points in the photo and it would stich it, right?
From what i remember it worked well.


ps. have you heard the new Daft Punk album yet!
05-14-2013, 05:58 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quazimoto Quote
Wow there is a whole subculture of stitch-photographers out there haha.
And it's a weird one...

QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
ps. have you heard the new Daft Punk album yet!
Can't get away from the radio-friendly "Get Lucky" in this town, and I've heard a few other tracks (streaming). Gotta remember Frenchmen never wanted disco to die in the first place!
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