[Miguel]

This is the firsy I've heard of print output sharpening.

I forgot about this part of your response. So, how do you sharpen your image files with printed output in mind?

If you haven't (and I apologize for being pedantic if you have) read this book, do check out the most recent version of Real World Image Sharpening with Adobe Photoshop, Camera Raw, and Lightroom (2nd Edition) by the late Bruce Fraser and Jeff Schewe. Bruce established the three-phase sharpening workflow that Lightroom and other tools later adopted. I am a believer.

The final piece, output sharpening, depends on your intended delivery medium. Sharpening for print should look quite crispy on screen, certainly not "perfect pretty." This may be why Lightroom doesn't show a screen view of print-sharpened images prior to the printer kicking output. Other sharpening tools like most plugins do show a facsimile of what you will be getting. Getting a great print tends to be a trial-and-error process, which is why I like to have a good working relationship with a printer (the person, not the machine) who knows his/her machine, and knows how much to push the finishing touches. YMMV.

M

[tuco]

The Epson Stylus Pro 4900 also takes rolls so you can do long, pano prints up to its max width. Perhaps the initial cost of the printer is not what you should be thinking about but the cost of the inks for something like this printer in the long run.

In Photoshop you can assign a print profile and convert the image to it. You should be doing this for the prints you send out if they have print profiles for their printer and paper type. Images for print should be over-sharpen compared to the computer screen.

[Wired]

Yea this print sharpening and color profile is all news to me. A fee pros locally that I shoot with all just recommend a few printers outside the city/canada. But I always believed in supporting the little guy down the road so I always look for local options first. Then provincial, national, then international if it cannot be avoided.

So this is all new information in very happy to be getting. I'll look up those books thank you

[tuco]

Are you using Lightroom?

[Wired]

Are you using Lightroom?

Lr4 yea.

I should clarify. I know about color profiles. And I messed up earlier. I shoot in aadobe rgb even though I use raw. I have LR4 and PScc setup for prophotorgb.

[Miguel]

I shoot in aadobe rgb even though I use raw. I have LR4 and PScc

That's quite OK. The key is to export the image file that goes to your printer in the sRGB color space. Also in your LR export dialog box, there is an Output Sharpening section that lets you set the type and a H/M/L amount. You can experiment with your home printer to get some ideas about the visual differences among those amounts.

As with any post-processing software, the rendition is additionally conditioned upon the amount of Input and Creative sharpening you have performed in post. Unlike many other software, however, LR's output sharpening is inherently linked to the type and amount of Input and Creative you have performed within LR itself. If you kick an image over to say NIK from LR and do some sharpening there, I don't believe that LR's output sharpening will take into account what NIK did.

It probably boils down to one's workflow and comfort zone as a photographer. I've always been very satisfied with LR's Input/Creative sharpening tools--especially the latest three versions--and have been happy with its output sharpening as well. YMMV.

M

[Wired]

That's quite OK. The key is to export the image file that goes to your printer in the sRGB color space. Also in your LR export dialog box, there is an Output Sharpening section that lets you set the type and a H/M/L amount. You can experiment with your home printer to get some ideas about the visual differences among those amounts.

As with any post-processing software, the rendition is additionally conditioned upon the amount of Input and Creative sharpening you have performed in post. Unlike many other software, however, LR's output sharpening is inherently linked to the type and amount of Input and Creative you have performed within LR itself. If you kick an image over to say NIK from LR and do some sharpening there, I don't believe that LR's output sharpening will take into account what NIK did.

It probably boils down to one's workflow and comfort zone as a photographer. I've always been very satisfied with LR's Input/Creative sharpening tools--especially the latest three versions--and have been happy with its output sharpening as well. YMMV.

M

Now when printing my images do you guys recommend using Lightroom print window or Windows printer functions. I know I personally find when I hit print from within Lightroom I get really messy prints. Bad exposure, strange artifacts, and pixilated. But if I take the same image and print it via windows it comes out perfect. Pretty close to the colors and exposure in Lightroom and very sharp paper depending.

I've been experimenting with papers and finding they can make a massive difference. Been leaning on some satin metallic paper for black and white lately or low key color portraits.

[Miguel]

do you guys recommend using Lightroom print window or Windows printer functions

I'm a Mac user, but the basic operations are essentially the same. The question to you is: are you letting LR manage printing with specific printer+paper profiles or are you letting the printer manage printing? My guess is that you are using the latter, especially if you lack specific profiles for your printer and paper. Consumer-level printers rarely have corresponding profiles for art paper.

Yes, papers are a huge difference because this is the interface with ink. Please correct me, but I believe your printer is a dye-based one, no? There are fewer paper choices when compared with pigment-based papers in the higher end of things. I've owned both types of printers a few times over, and must admit to liking the richer look of dye, but for archival means (especially if you are selling your framed work) often one has to stay with the papers from the same printer manufacturer. Epson does make some wonderful papers though.

M

[tuco]

Some general thoughts... one approach I've used is to create a print file. You could send it off to either your printer or a print service. A rough overview goes something like this.

In LR, go the Print module. Prepare your print, size, dpi and max JPG quality. Check Print Sharpening, sRGB Profile, Intent, say, Perceptual and select Print to File.

In LR, you also have an option for using a printer profile ( if you installed one in the profile directory) instead of sRGB that can be added to the file on saving. But I don't believe there is a way to soft proof in LR4. So you can just select sRGB for saving and then load the print profile in Photoshop where you can both soft proof and make final edits such as brightness and contrast.

Load the print file up in Photoshop and assign the printer profile (Edit->Assign Profile) and select the printer profile (if installed). Goto View->Proof Setup->Custom and pick options in the popup dialog for soft proofing. Now you can either save the finished results with the embedded printer profile or convert the image to the profile (Edit->Convert To Profile) and then save as sRGB stripping out the loaded printer profile.

You'd use the latter method of converting and removing the printer profile for services that do not read the embedded printer profile (eg Costco ). But for your own printer you can now print from Photoshop and configure your printer driver to read an embedded profile. There is still a bunch of detail I didn't cover and I hope I got right what I've written.

[Miguel]

Some general thoughts... one approach I've used is to create a print file. You could send it off to either your printer or a print service. A rough overview goes something like this.

In LR, go the Print module. Prepare your print, size, dpi and max JPG quality. Check Print Sharpening, sRGB Profile, Intent, say, Perceptual and select Print to File.

In LR, you also have an option for using a printer profile ( if you installed one in the profile directory) instead of sRGB that can be added to the file on saving. But I don't believe there is a way to soft proof in LR4. So you can just select sRGB for saving and then load the print profile in Photoshop where you can both soft proof and make final edits such as brightness and contrast.

Load the print file up in Photoshop and assign the printer profile (Edit->Assign Profile) and select the printer profile (if installed). Goto View->Proof Setup->Custom and pick options in the popup dialog for soft proofing. Now you can either save the finished results with the embedded printer profile or convert the image to the profile (Edit->Convert To Profile) and then save as sRGB stripping out the loaded printer profile.

You'd use the latter method of converting and removing the printer profile for services that do not read the embedded printer profile (eg Costco ). But for your own printer you can now print from Photoshop and configure your printer driver to read an embedded profile. There is still a bunch of detail I didn't cover and I hope I got right what I've written.

You can soft proof in LR4. A lot less complicated.

M

[tuco]

You can soft proof in LR4. A lot less complicated.

M

Good to know. But that method of converting the JPG to the printer profile without having the profile embedded both saves file size for uploads to a service and for services that don't read the embedded profile (ie expecting a sRGB color profile). LR4 does not have that convert to profile feature was another point I wanted to note.