Lightroom 5.2 and color inconsistancy.

Zafar Iqbal · 12-05-2013, 07:44 PM

Top: Library module
Bottom: Develop module

Colors are different - why???

Develop module shows same color as Library module until the preview is updated, after which the color becomes stronger and shifts hue a bit towards purple. I suspect this to be a software glitch but I can't find anything about it on the web.

So far it seems this only happens with reds, going slightly into purple. Other colors do not appear to be affected. If they are, they aren't affected as much as deep red colors.

Has anyone else noticed this?

Final export looks like the one in Develop module.

**Miguel** · 12-05-2013, 07:58 PM

Library is not showing you the Raw interpretation like Develop module does. In Library you are seeing an 8-bit jpeg.

M

Zafar Iqbal · 12-05-2013, 08:15 PM

Let me add to my first post:

The color keeps changing when I go back and forth between Library and Develop. It's not just the first time.

Also, the photo you see above is actually a rendered TIFF (but same happens with RAWs). Forcing LR to generate new previews doesn't solve this.

DeadJohn · 12-05-2013, 08:27 PM

I think what Miguel means is that in Develop you are working with the full image, whether DNG, TIFF, or some other supported format. In Library you are seeing a JPG version of that same image. Generating new previews doesn't fix the problem because the JPG preview always contains less data than the full Develop image.

Why might LR work that way; why not always show the full image to guarantee proper colors? The JPG contains less data and is much faster to load. Browsing through Library mode would be slow if it had to load the full image.

**Miguel** · 12-05-2013, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by DeadJohn

I think what Miguel means is

Thanks for saying it better than I could

M

Zafar Iqbal · 12-05-2013, 09:05 PM

I know what we see in Library is a preview, and once in Develop, thats when LR actually displays the true data. Although I'm open to your explanation, I disagree that this is what might be going on - unless you are telling me LR is using different colorspaces within the app. Exporting a JPG in sRGB looks very close to, possibly identical to, how the photo looks in Library. I don't know if that means LR is using multiple colorspaces within the app, but I've actually never had the impression it did and also don't see why it should across modules.

I have 47.000 photos in LR, all processed in LR (most I paied more attention to, some less) and have for some time been aware of the preview vs. actual data (or whatever it should be called) difference, I've never before (v5.2) seen the difference such as this. Those differences I normally se show up as lack of resolution/sharpness (till a new preview is generated when zooming) and JPG artifacts.

**Miguel** · 12-05-2013, 09:44 PM

From what I understand, Lightroom uses pre-rendered Adobe RGB compressed JPEGs for speed.What you see in Develop is rendered by MelissaRGB. From what I've heard, reds are prone to variation in this context. So you may be noticing gamut differences between the two color spaces.
Just curious, is your monitor calibrated? Also, Mac or Windows? I've read that this may be a LR>Windows issue, but not convinced totally. And this is the K-30 right? I'm not familiar with the K-30, but does LR 5.2 have a profile for it (unlike the K-3)?
Thanks

M

Zafar Iqbal · 12-05-2013, 09:53 PM

According to this, ProPhoto is much broader on the green end:

And as can be seen in my first post, I have a gal in greenish clothing - I ramped up primaries in Calibration, added full saturation and vibration, and to top it off, added a graduaded filter covering the entire photo, also applying full saturation - twice. All this to make sure I'd get saturated green.

The difference between sRGB and Prophoto is like night and day (when comparing photos, not just the chart). The sRGB version in pale. The difference now from Library to Develop is pretty much none as far as I can tell just by looking - but I do still see a difference on the RED lipstick.

alijafary509 · 12-05-2013, 09:57 PM

on adobe tv Julieanne Kost explains all the reasons and solutions what the problem is facing you zafar. you might like to consult that web page.

Zafar Iqbal · 12-05-2013, 10:00 PM

Miguel: Didn't see you reply before I posted mine. The difference i see in the red is really huge and according the chart, I should notice some difference even with Adobe RGB. Something is going on but I'm surprised the difference (in the red) is that large - it even bothered me because I had trouble fine tuning the photos.

My monitor is calibrated and I shoot with K-30, yes. I recently downloaded some profiles for the K-30 but the difference is still there and at large with "Embedded" and "Adobe Standard".

Zafar Iqbal · 12-05-2013, 10:01 PM

alijafary509: Oh, thanks. I'll have a look. You don't happen to have a link or the title of the video?

Zafar Iqbal · 12-05-2013, 10:10 PM

Proofing with Adobe RGB does look closer to how pics appear in Library.

Edit: I googled Library and Adobe RGB and found this:

"The Library module stores all previews in the AdobeRGB color space"

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/lightroom/using/WS268F3399-80B2-4169-A598-04C7F769FFA0.html

Problem "solved".

12-05-2013, 07:44 PM	#1
Zafar Iqbal Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,229	Lightroom 5.2 and color inconsistancy. Top: Library module Bottom: Develop module Colors are different - why??? Develop module shows same color as Library module until the preview is updated, after which the color becomes stronger and shifts hue a bit towards purple. I suspect this to be a software glitch but I can't find anything about it on the web. So far it seems this only happens with reds, going slightly into purple. Other colors do not appear to be affected. If they are, they aren't affected as much as deep red colors. Has anyone else noticed this? Final export looks like the one in Develop module.

12-05-2013, 10:10 PM	#12
Zafar Iqbal Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,229 Original Poster	Proofing with Adobe RGB does look closer to how pics appear in Library. Edit: I googled Library and Adobe RGB and found this: "The Library module stores all previews in the AdobeRGB color space" http://help.adobe.com/en_US/lightroom/using/WS268F3399-80B2-4169-A598-04C7F769FFA0.html Problem "solved". Last edited by Zafar Iqbal; 12-05-2013 at 10:16 PM.

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12-05-2013, 07:58 PM	#2
Miguel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Near Seattle Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,743	Library is not showing you the Raw interpretation like Develop module does. In Library you are seeing an 8-bit jpeg. M

12-05-2013, 08:15 PM	#3
Zafar Iqbal Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,229 Original Poster	Let me add to my first post: The color keeps changing when I go back and forth between Library and Develop. It's not just the first time. Also, the photo you see above is actually a rendered TIFF (but same happens with RAWs). Forcing LR to generate new previews doesn't solve this.

12-05-2013, 08:27 PM	#4
DeadJohn Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York Posts: 4,834	I think what Miguel means is that in Develop you are working with the full image, whether DNG, TIFF, or some other supported format. In Library you are seeing a JPG version of that same image. Generating new previews doesn't fix the problem because the JPG preview always contains less data than the full Develop image. Why might LR work that way; why not always show the full image to guarantee proper colors? The JPG contains less data and is much faster to load. Browsing through Library mode would be slow if it had to load the full image.

12-05-2013, 08:36 PM	#5
Miguel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Near Seattle Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,743	Originally posted by DeadJohn I think what Miguel means is Thanks for saying it better than I could M

12-05-2013, 09:05 PM	#6
Zafar Iqbal Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,229 Original Poster	I know what we see in Library is a preview, and once in Develop, thats when LR actually displays the true data. Although I'm open to your explanation, I disagree that this is what might be going on - unless you are telling me LR is using different colorspaces within the app. Exporting a JPG in sRGB looks very close to, possibly identical to, how the photo looks in Library. I don't know if that means LR is using multiple colorspaces within the app, but I've actually never had the impression it did and also don't see why it should across modules. I have 47.000 photos in LR, all processed in LR (most I paied more attention to, some less) and have for some time been aware of the preview vs. actual data (or whatever it should be called) difference, I've never before (v5.2) seen the difference such as this. Those differences I normally se show up as lack of resolution/sharpness (till a new preview is generated when zooming) and JPG artifacts.

12-05-2013, 09:44 PM	#7
Miguel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Near Seattle Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,743	From what I understand, Lightroom uses pre-rendered Adobe RGB compressed JPEGs for speed.What you see in Develop is rendered by MelissaRGB. From what I've heard, reds are prone to variation in this context. So you may be noticing gamut differences between the two color spaces. Just curious, is your monitor calibrated? Also, Mac or Windows? I've read that this may be a LR>Windows issue, but not convinced totally. And this is the K-30 right? I'm not familiar with the K-30, but does LR 5.2 have a profile for it (unlike the K-3)? Thanks M

12-05-2013, 09:53 PM	#8
Zafar Iqbal Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,229 Original Poster	According to this, ProPhoto is much broader on the green end: And as can be seen in my first post, I have a gal in greenish clothing - I ramped up primaries in Calibration, added full saturation and vibration, and to top it off, added a graduaded filter covering the entire photo, also applying full saturation - twice. All this to make sure I'd get saturated green. The difference between sRGB and Prophoto is like night and day (when comparing photos, not just the chart). The sRGB version in pale. The difference now from Library to Develop is pretty much none as far as I can tell just by looking - but I do still see a difference on the RED lipstick.

12-05-2013, 09:57 PM	#9
alijafary509 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 45	on adobe tv Julieanne Kost explains all the reasons and solutions what the problem is facing you zafar. you might like to consult that web page.

12-05-2013, 10:00 PM	#10
Zafar Iqbal Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,229 Original Poster	Miguel: Didn't see you reply before I posted mine. The difference i see in the red is really huge and according the chart, I should notice some difference even with Adobe RGB. Something is going on but I'm surprised the difference (in the red) is that large - it even bothered me because I had trouble fine tuning the photos. My monitor is calibrated and I shoot with K-30, yes. I recently downloaded some profiles for the K-30 but the difference is still there and at large with "Embedded" and "Adobe Standard".

12-05-2013, 10:01 PM	#11
Zafar Iqbal Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,229 Original Poster	alijafary509: Oh, thanks. I'll have a look. You don't happen to have a link or the title of the video?